105 Wins & 73 Losses

[BomberOrange]

Quincy and Goodine are considered an uptick?.. aren't they ranked top 75-100? I guess it beats getting plaers in the 100-200 range but c'mon.

I think you replied to the wrong post...and is your username a nod to that great pizza shop in Camillus Mall? I lived on that stuff in the 80s

 

[Fly Rodder]

Im not sure how taking on transfers has any impact whatsoever. Same as taking a recruit in my eyes.

They eat up a scholarship for a season and can't play. If you have 11 scholarships and it hurts the program, why burn one on a kid who can't contribute until the next season. Numbers is numbers. Coleman was such a significant player his JR year, Boeheim played a 6'10 beanpole freshman at center for 25 mpg.

Scholarship reductions are overrated as a factor.

 

[tbonezone]

I don't have the answers but I understand the frustration.

one answer is you recruit players for your system and then play them at their natural skill positions.
marek and tyus are both great players but like many who came before them they are pushed by necessity or lack of bodies or poor recruiting into other roles .i mean marek's obviously not a center . nor was lydon.
seems JB and syracuse are constantly bashing square pegs into round holes to put 5 bodies on the floor.

 

[orangecuse]

So you admit they hurt but want more specifics? Im sure the coaches could explain it. I just assume its self explanatory that having two less scholarships per year is punitive. Im not sure its as measurable as you want.

With that said, that doesnt mean they haven't been severe. I guess ill demand the same thing—someone tell me how they results of the sanctions are overstated?

Well, if it's not as measurable, then one can't argue with certainty that the sanctions cost us x, y & z, etc. So, without it being easily measurable, it's interesting the ones that simply argue overbearingly how devastating and crippling the sanctions have been to the program from an emphatic absolute position. Versus a more comprehensive viewpoint of the combination of factors; missed recruits, players landed that didn't pan out, early departures, sanctions, development issues, coaching, etc.

 

[moqui]

I dont know. I find it hard to believe that JBs system suddenly doesnt work when weve had two legit national contending teams in the past ten or so years. I think our talent is a bit down right now, and theres a couple reasons for that, mainly the sanctions IMHO.

People want to change the system but i feel like that is short sighted. Staying true to your identity is what brings sustained success. Making significant changes year in and year out would seemingly conflict the program and players for possibly short term goals. We actually run an offense that is very similar to NBA teams so I dont get why scouts wouldn’t want to see that. The offense has looked beautiful in the recent past and it will again once we get the talent needed.

Also, you cant simply say the sanctions arent the problem and not explain it. If anything, sanctions would hurt us most right now, at the very end. Thats because they have a cumulative effect. What has happened with the sanctions on this board is called fatigue. Posters are sick of hearing about it because it seems like a tired excuse. But the sanctions are finally over just now! And the thing is, just because the scholarship numbers have been restored, does not mean the harm is finished. The sanctions will continue to hurt us because of a hangover effect. The sanctions hurt us on the court, which means makes recruiting harder. That snowballs into more losses which lowers the status of the program. And so on. People seriously understate how bad the penalty was. You don’t just flip the switch and be back to full strength because the scholarships are restored. It will take another 2-3 years to get back to 100%.

The comment about how JB runs practice seems like a petty cheap shot. I dont mind a coach observing. The knowledge can be passed on through the assistants. Plus, it may free up JB to observe things more objectively and from a different perspective than if he was caught up running individual drills. This comment seems to stem purely from emotion. “We got crushed by Virginia in a half so I am going to lash out with any petty argument I can think of.” Its weak.

I agree about JBs public commentary. I wish he wouldn’t do that, especially with players who leave early for the NBA.

Lastly, were not all that bad right now. Were going to make the NCAAT and theres probably only 5 teams that we really can’t beat consistently/aren’t close to a toss up.

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[FrancoPizza]

I think you replied to the wrong post...and is your username a nod to that great pizza shop in Camillus Mall? I lived on that stuff in the 80s

Yes it is. Best pizza around. Mr capresa or whatever his name was - the art teacher - he also worked there for a time.

 

[jgeorge322]

They eat up a scholarship for a season and can't play. If you have 11 scholarships and it hurts the program, why burn one on a kid who can't contribute until the next season. Numbers is numbers. Coleman was such a significant player his JR year, Boeheim played a 6'10 beanpole freshman at center for 25 mpg.

Scholarship reductions are overrated as a factor.

If the player is good enough, then you take them. That doesnt still mean there wasnt another player out there we also couldve recruited.

Also, no one is saying they made us unable to field a team. But not being able to get heurter, a nba player, is bad enough. One player can make a difference in basketball.

Im not saying sanctions are 100% to blame. Couldnt we also have landed morris (isu) or brunson (nova), if we wanted? Those were just flat out misses. But again, those things happen from time to time.

I need more than one down turn to say we need to change everything. People seem to just want to bitch.

 

[mayselc]

ill bet 80 percent of teams would love to be a .600 record team the last 4-5 years in the ACC

Since when are we in the bottom 80% of D1 teams? We were a perennial top 15 team for almost a solid 20 years, from 1990 to 2010. I'd need to check the math, but i think it is pretty close to that.
Every coach (even Dean Smith and John Wooden) hits the far side of the bell curve, and my fear is that we are there.

 

[jgeorge322]

Since when are we in the bottom 80% of D1 teams? We were a perennial top 15 team for almost a solid 20 years, from 1990 to 2010. I'd need to check the math, but i think it is pretty close to that.
Every coach (even Dean Smith and John Wooden) hits the far side of the bell curve, and my fear is that we are there.

Im sure people thought that in the early 2000s too.

 

[jgeorge322]

Another part of the sanctions - cant play the recruiting game as well.

 

[Alsacs]

If the player is good enough, then you take them. That doesnt still mean there wasnt another player out there we also couldve recruited.

Also, no one is saying they made us unable to field a team. But not being able to get heurter, a nba player, is bad enough. One player can make a difference in basketball.

Im not saying sanctions are 100% to blame. Couldnt we also have landed morris (isu) or brunson (nova), if we wanted? Those were just flat out misses. But again, those things happen from time to time.

I need more than one down turn to say we need to change everything. People seem to just want to bitch.

RF2044 has outlined the story we had a real good chance at Jalen Brunson but the HC politely declined recruiting him.
When he told the story my jaw dropped.
Brunson, PG after Ennis and sanctions

He treated Brunson and his dad with respect but we didn’t prioritize him.
We also lost Lonnie Walker and another kid from Miami because of our staff not prioritizing them.

We lost Brandon Randolph for reasons I won’t say.

Sanctions is a weak excuse when we just lost kids we could have gotten.

 

[moqui]

Since when are we in the bottom 80% of D1 teams? We were a perennial top 15 team for almost a solid 20 years, from 1990 to 2010. I'd need to check the math, but i think it is pretty close to that.
.

you will be surprised to know that from 1991-92 to 2008-9, syracuse was never once ranked in the final regular season top 10 of the ap poll. no, not even the 2003 national champs (11th).
in that 18 year stretch, the best finishes were
11th in 2003 and 2005
13th in 2009
15th in 94 and 96

 

[Cuse69]

I rarely say this, but this is a dumb post. Why the heck do you start at the end of a 25-0 start? Dumb. And to double down on dumb, you say it isn't about sanctions but coaching and recruiting. Well, both recruiting and coaching were badly hurt by, wait for it, the sanctions. Want proof, go back and look at what we looked like during our last round of sanctions. If we didn't get very lucky with Moten being much better than anyone thought and Wallace growing up down the road, we would have fielded teams much worse that what we have now. The sanctions really hurt our recruiting. And the coaches were left coaching kids that were not as good. Over the last 10 years, we have 2 #1 seeds, two other final fours. A 25-0 start. Are we as good now as we were 10 years ago. No. There are a number of reasons for that. The sanctions are at the top of the list. But we have been in this spot before. We do face new challenges with a coaching change on the horizon. Overall, the last 10 years have been as good as any 10 years we have had. We just don't tend to remember the down years in the 90's or the prior 10 years as well as the years we are living through right now.

He's acknowledging that we were great to start 25-0 but since the 25-0 we've been a very average team, I'll take our last 4 seasons compared to Virginia. How many times have they been to the sweet 16 and final 4. The whole point being made is yes we were great, the 25-0 season happened and was awesome, but since 25-0 we've been very average, those are just facts, I don't think boeheim should be fired but to pretend like the last 5 years havent been bad is crazy, since the 25-0 team we have not had a drama free selection sunday where we were even a 6 seed, always bubble, weve been very average and i think alot has to do with misses in recruiting, couldve had kevin heurter from virginia, the reason we didnt offer jose alvarado or ty jerome, the team is exactly what boehim and co want, go through the espn top 100 list we dont offer 99%, every top 100 guy should have an offer, honestly i think boeheim is getting old and a bit lazy

 

[tbonezone]

you will be surprised to know that from 1991-92 to 2008-9, syracuse was never once ranked in the final regular season top 10 of the ap poll. no, not even the 2003 national champs (11th).
in that 18 year stretch, the best finishes were
11th in 2003 and 2005
13th in 2009
15th in 94 and 96

from 89/90 til we left the Big East we won or shared 7 conference titles and won 3 BE tournaments.

LINK : 40 YRS BIGEAST
the toughest league hands down in that stretch.

 

[dasher]

He's acknowledging that we were great to start 25-0 but since the 25-0 we've been a very average team, I'll take our last 4 seasons compared to Virginia. How many times have they been to the sweet 16 and final 4. The whole point being made is yes we were great, the 25-0 season happened and was awesome, but since 25-0 we've been very average, those are just facts, I don't think boeheim should be fired but to pretend like the last 5 years havent been bad is crazy, since the 25-0 team we have not had a drama free selection sunday where we were even a 6 seed, always bubble, weve been very average and i think alot has to do with misses in recruiting, couldve had kevin heurter from virginia, the reason we didnt offer jose alvarado or ty jerome, the team is exactly what boehim and co want, go through the espn top 100 list we dont offer 99%, every top 100 guy should have an offer, honestly i think boeheim is getting old and a bit lazy

we couldn't get huerter because we didn't have the ship available. I never heard of us with regard to Jerome. And ir's not like Alvarado has been all that.

 

[Cusefan0307]

we couldn't get huerter because we didn't have the ship available. I never heard of us with regard to Jerome. And ir's not like Alvarado has been all that.

We ended up having two available once Mali left and Kaleb transferred. Gbinije and Cooney graduated that year.

We signed Taurean late and then got Gillon/White over the summer. Not sure why they thought we didn’t have room. I don’t think the staff thought he was an elite player until it was too late.

 

[Alsacs]

We ended up having two available once Mali left and Kaleb transferred. Gbinije and Cooney graduated that year.

We signed Taurean late and then got Gillon/White over the summer. Not sure why they thought we didn’t have room. I don’t think the staff thought he was an elite player until it was too late.

Losing JaQuan Newton was an underrated important event.
That miss pushed us to Kaleb Joseph and our PG play going down since.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Losing JaQuan Newton was an underrated important event.
That miss pushed us to Kaleb Joseph and our PG play going down since.

Others would know better, but we were on Kaleb from the start as a priority and that was all Hop.

 

[Cuseball]

Losing JaQuan Newton was an underrated important event.
That miss pushed us to Kaleb Joseph and our PG play going down since.

BS, we took Joseph over Newton and kaleb was ranked higher. Just throwing crap off the wall is not a well thought out strategy

 

[Cuse69]

we couldn't get huerter because we didn't have the ship available. I never heard of us with regard to Jerome. And ir's not like Alvarado has been all that.

I'd take him over frank, the ships weren't available because we gave them to bad players, could've gave it to kevin over taurean thompson, wasted a scholarship on obokoh, didn't they give one to christian white, they had some restrictions but missed on some players

 

[Alsacs]

BS, we took Joseph over Newton and kaleb was ranked higher. Just throwing crap off the wall is not a well thought out strategy

Newton committed to Miami 10 days before Kaleb Joseph committed to SU.
High School Sports News Articles - MaxPreps - Ja'Quan Newton chooses Miami

Cushing's Kaleb Joseph commits to Syracuse

How is that throwing crap against the wall?
With how Newton turned out at Miami vs. Joseph turned out at SU
If we got Newton we could have taken Joseph as well but had options but Newton chose Miami first before we got Joseph.

 

[dasher]

We ended up having two available once Mali left and Kaleb transferred. Gbinije and Cooney graduated that year.

We signed Taurean late and then got Gillon/White over the summer. Not sure why they thought we didn’t have room. I don’t think the staff thought he was an elite player until it was too late.

They wanted him but he just wouldn't wait. I don't blame him but that is what happened

 

[SWC75]

Since when are we in the bottom 80% of D1 teams? We were a perennial top 15 team for almost a solid 20 years, from 1990 to 2010. I'd need to check the math, but i think it is pretty close to that.
Every coach (even Dean Smith and John Wooden) hits the far side of the bell curve, and my fear is that we are there.

John Wooden won the national championship in his final year. Dean Smith made the Final Four.

 

[pfister1]

I find this to be an excellent post. And, in regards to the highlighted, good luck getting a transparent answer to that fair question. Naturally, 3 lost schollies/year had an affect, but truly to what extent? Seemingly, it's convenient to say sanctions costed us dearly or a crushing blow in recruiting, but I also haven't seen (other than the aforementioned Huerter) who we specifically lost solely because of the sanctions. Even Huerter can be argued that if we wanted him bad enough, we could've given that one last scholly we had left that year to him. But, we got the commitment from Battle, and Huerter was a similar type position player, so we held out our remaining scholarship for a different position player/recruit, whom we ultimately didn't land either. I can't recall who it was at the moment without delving back into the archives. That being the case though, is why we attempted to persuade Huerter to prep for a year, which he basically laughed off and shortly afterwards committed to Maryland.

As Jay Bilas said after the sanctions hit, since Syracuse typically only plays approximately 7 guys, the 3 lost scholarships, albeit nothing to sneeze at, wouldn't be a significant detriment to the Orange as far as their on court performance went. He mentioned, however, it may affect the practices because of the reductions. Alsacs has also mentioned even in these sanctions years, we still had scholarships available to give. That being the case, I am really curious who we lost solely because of the sanctions, versus those recruits simply not being interested or ultimately choosing other schools they simply liked better.

And Jay Bilas was wrong when he said that.

One guy we lost because of sanctions was BJ. With the extra scholarships available we can afford to be more patient and I doubt very much that he is encouraged to look elsewhere.

 

[pfister1]

I think sanctions excuse is just to make an excuse from fans who circle the wagons around JB no matter what the results are showing.
Plus the sanctions were under his watch so he deserves some of the blame for them even we were over punished.

Very few people argue that our results the last few years aren’t attributable to JB and are only attributable to sanctions.

The sanctions are often argued as a counter to the anti-JB crowd that argue that he’s lost it and that his philosophy and system doesn’t work anymore. The argument is that you can’t fairly assess his results, system etc because of the overhang of the sanctions.