105 Wins & 73 Losses

[FrancoPizza]

Hope you're right but I'm not holding my breath...I'm sure they're great for the zone though.

Quincy and Goodine are considered an uptick?.. aren't they ranked top 75-100? I guess it beats getting plaers in the 100-200 range but c'mon.

 

[SU94]

Chukwu had a good game against Duke.
1 game doesn’t mean he has gotten better.
His stats in fact have gotten WORSE from last year.
Last year he scored 5.5 PPG and 6.8 RPG
This year Chukwu is 4.3 PPG and 5.5 RPG.
Anyone who wants to argue Chukwu has gotten better is just not looking at the court.
He isn’t an offensive threat and only had double digit rebounds 2 times.

Dolezaj doesn’t get enough minutes to show how better he has gotten. What type of post game has he developed? Dolezaj is our best passer. His playing time has been reduced because of Hughes. Sorry but if the guy is a lot better he should be getting more minutes.
Why are we assuming Dolezaj will even stay? And won’t go back to Europe? It’s all speculation with him.

Frank Howard was given minutes last year because we literally had no other options. He was solid but he has regressed this year. Injury slowed him early but if you want to credit player development for last year then this year they failed.

Chukwu is playing 7 minutes per game less this year. That is why his averages are down, but he points, rebounds and steals per minute are up.

And the primary reason he's playing less?

The rising profile of Dolezaj, which you refute. His points per minute and rebounds/minute are flat this year, but his assists and FG% (including 3FG%) are up and his turnovers are down. Dude is an efficient player. He's getting better month-by-month.

All this is why I differ with you on this.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Makes sense in regards to the coach road limitations. But we still had JB and another could still go on the road. So, if there was a guy the staff identified, and really wanted, I doubt they would lose that player by JB or the other staff guy not going out on the road? I still would love to know who we lost solely because of the sanctions, as again, other than the arguable Huerter, I haven't heard any specific names.

Exactly.

But, the SANCTIONS!

 

[Cusefan0307]

Quincy and Goodine are considered an uptick?.. aren't they ranked top 75-100? I guess it beats getting plaers in the 100-200 range but c'mon.

Guerrier is 52 and can we see how they play first. Deandre Hunter was 91.

 

[OttoMets]

Sanctions obviously hurt us but the excuse is overblown by people who just want to excuse the mediocrity.
Dasher is the only who has presented a good argument as to why the sanctions hurt more for the lost 1 coach on the road rather than scholarship reductions.
His argument is sound and fair.
We could only have 2 coaches on the road for 2 years. Now the PS article outlined how it wasn’t bad as it could be.
Syracuse basketball coaches maneuver around NCAA sanctions during open evaluation period

I think sanctions excuse is just to make an excuse from fans who circle the wagons around JB no matter what the results are showing.
Plus the sanctions were under his watch so he deserves some of the blame for them even we were over punished.

That's why I'm genuinely curious. Because while it sounds like a dumb excuse to me (and believe me, I've tried to think this through), it's not just that handful of wagon-circlers who are offering it. There are enough insiders and reasonable posters with the same take, but they still haven't spelled out why they think that.

 

[jgeorge322]

Exactly.

But, the SANCTIONS!

We were down multiple scholarships per year. Youd have to be a complete moron to believe we didnt lose players as a result. You dont need names because it changes everything. Think the alternate 1985 from back to the future.

 

[jgeorge322]

That's why I'm genuinely curious. Because while it sounds like a dumb excuse to me (and believe me, I've tried to think this through), it's not just that handful of wagon-circlers who are offering it. There are enough insiders and reasonable posters with the same take, but they still haven't spelled out why they think that.

Why does every team not recruit less players then? If it doesnt hurt, why give away these unneeded scholarships?

 

[jgeorge322]

Sanctions obviously hurt us but the excuse is overblown by people who just want to excuse the mediocrity.
Dasher is the only who has presented a good argument as to why the sanctions hurt more for the lost 1 coach on the road rather than scholarship reductions.
His argument is sound and fair.
We could only have 2 coaches on the road for 2 years. Now the PS article outlined how it wasn’t bad as it could be.
Syracuse basketball coaches maneuver around NCAA sanctions during open evaluation period

I think sanctions excuse is just to make an excuse from fans who circle the wagons around JB no matter what the results are showing.
Plus the sanctions were under his watch so he deserves some of the blame for them even we were over punished.

Im shocked that the syracuse coaches didnt whine publically about the impact of the sanctions and complain that they couldnt get quality recruits. That wouldve been the sure fire strategy to success...

 

[FrancoPizza]

That's why I'm genuinely curious. Because while it sounds like a dumb excuse to me (and believe me, I've tried to think this through), it's not just that handful of wagon-circlers who are offering it. There are enough insiders and reasonable posters with the same take, but they still haven't spelled out why they think that.

The only thing i can think of is -- the rationale that having 2 extra coaches out there would help build some relationships -- it;s weak considering the relationships we did priortize.

 

[Alsacs]

That's why I'm genuinely curious. Because while it sounds like a dumb excuse to me (and believe me, I've tried to think this through), it's not just that handful of wagon-circlers who are offering it. There are enough insiders and reasonable posters with the same take, but they still haven't spelled out why they think that.

See I don’t think enough posters are objective.
We have the staff can do no wrong wing.

Their are the program sucks wing.

Then I am in the I respect the HC but call it the way I see it wing.
The problem is most people are in the top two and not enough call it the way it is.

I think posters like Cusefan0307, Dasher, OrangeDW, RF2044, MikeSU02, Bayside44 are among the few who will call it the way it is. I disagree with them but they call it the way they see it.

We have a lot of homers and haters in between.
We need people to call it the way they see it instead of just team pro JB and team anti JB.

 

[OttoMets]

Why does every team not recruit less players then? If it doesnt hurt, why give away these unneeded scholarships?

You mean carry fewer kids on scholarship or recruit from a smaller pool?

Either way, I never claimed it didn't hurt. That's a weird straw man. I'm trying to encourage a discussion about what actually happened and why. Not straw men, not "sanctions ---> .575 basketball," but 'sanctions had X effect on Y strategy which caused Z which brought us to this state of affairs.' I'm serious - what specific set-backs did Syracuse suffer as a result of sanctions?

 

[Alsacs]

Im shocked that the syracuse coaches didnt whine publically about the impact of the sanctions and complain that they couldnt get quality recruits. That wouldve been the sure fire strategy to success...

We had 11 scholarships and 2 coaches on the road. Those aren’t crippling sanctions.
Hop was doing well till he left.
Plus JB was the closer till Hop left.
The sanctions weren’t why we couldn’t get recruits as Battle was a 5 Star.

 

[OttoMets]

See I don’t think enough posters are objective.
We have the staff can do no wrong wing.

Their are the program sucks wing.

Then I am in the I respect the HC but call it the way I see it wing.
The problem is most people are in the top two and not enough call it the way it is.

I think posters like Cusefan0307, Dasher, OrangeDW, RF2044, MikeSU02, Bayside44 are among the few who will call it the way it is. I disagree with them but they call it the way they see it.

We have a lot of homers and haters in between.
We need people to call it the way they see it instead of just team pro JB and team anti JB.

I enjoy all the posters on that list, but if I recall correctly two of them offered up some version of the "of course the sanctions caused a problem, because they were intended to cause a problem" pablum. I also recognize that some of those guys are quasi-insiders and maybe can't share the specifics we're looking for.

But yeah, there's a lot of partisans out there too.

 

[OttoMets]

The only thing i can think of is -- the rationale that having 2 extra coaches out there would help build some relationships -- it;s weak considering the relationships we did priortize.

It's definitely a competitive disadvantage, but I'm not convinced that the effect is directly the cause of today's state of the program.

 

[Alsacs]

It's definitely a competitive disadvantage, but I'm not convinced that the effect is directly the cause of today's state of the program.

That is because it isn’t. Sanctions hurt us but they aren’t why we are where we are now.
It’s more who are targeting in recruiting rather than sanctions crippling us. We recruit long athletic players for the zone and then rely on individuals to score on offense.

 

[ethoo18]

It was us, Duke, and Michigan for Battle. He was a borderline five star. We won the recruiting battle. We will never beat Duke on another 5 star until something changes. I know we beat Duke to JGIII, but he isn't ranked a five star he's ranked a 3.

 

[Alsacs]

It was us, Duke, and Michigan for Battle. He was a borderline five star. We won the recruiting battle. We will never beat Duke on another 5 star until something changes. I know we beat Duke to JGIII, but he isn't ranked a five star he's ranked a 3.

Why are hating on our program like this?
My god give JB and GMac credit they beat Michigan for Joe Girard.
Plus Hop worked his butt off and got us Battle over Michigan.

 

[ethoo18]

Why are hating on our program like this?
My god give JB and GMac credit they beat Michigan for Joe Girard.
Plus Hop worked his butt off and got us Battle over Michigan.

Exactly, HOP worked his butt off for Battle. I give credit for JGIII but he nowhere near the caliber of a player Battle was coming out of HS.

 

[Fly Rodder]

We were down multiple scholarships per year. Youd have to be a complete moron to believe we didnt lose players as a result. You dont need names because it changes everything. Think the alternate 1985 from back to the future.

The reduced scholarship penalties were so bad that JAB took on traditional transfers (Chukwu & Hughes) & projects (Chino) as well as kept DaJuan on the roster even though he had severe enough injuries that he couldn't be a significant contributor over four seasons*. And even then SU did not use all of their allotted scholarships.


*I'm not saying that JAB should have encouraged him to transfer, but Coleman ate up a scholarship when SU was supposedly in dire straights.

 

[dasher]

There it is.

two final fours and a sweet 16. We better keep him

 

[orangecuse]

I enjoy all the posters on that list, but if I recall correctly two of them offered up some version of the "of course the sanctions caused a problem, because they were intended to cause a problem" pablum. I also recognize that some of those guys are quasi-insiders and maybe can't share the specifics we're looking for.

But yeah, there's a lot of partisans out there too.

Well, since those lost recruits that allegedly got away are now all signed, sealed and delivered to other schools, or have moved on to professional careers, etc., how would any insider or even a coach for that matter, not be able to speak consequence free?

 

[jgeorge322]

You mean carry fewer kids on scholarship or recruit from a smaller pool?

Either way, I never claimed it didn't hurt. That's a weird straw man. I'm trying to encourage a discussion about what actually happened and why. Not straw men, not "sanctions ---> .575 basketball," but 'sanctions had X effect on Y strategy which caused Z which brought us to this state of affairs.' I'm serious - what specific set-backs did Syracuse suffer as a result of sanctions?

So you admit they hurt but want more specifics? Im sure the coaches could explain it. I just assume its self explanatory that having two less scholarships per year is punitive. Im not sure its as measurable as you want.

With that said, that doesnt mean they haven't been severe. I guess ill demand the same thing—someone tell me how they results of the sanctions are overstated?

 

[tbonezone]

ill bet 80 percent of teams would love to be a .600 record team the last 4-5 years in the ACC

and 1 ACC tournament game win to boot ! how glorious .

 

[jgeorge322]

The reduced scholarship penalties were so bad that JAB took on traditional transfers (Chukwu & Hughes) & projects (Chino) as well as kept DaJuan on the roster even though he had severe enough injuries that he couldn't be a significant contributor over four seasons*. And even then SU did not use all of their allotted scholarships.


*I'm not saying that JAB should have encouraged him to transfer, but Coleman ate up a scholarship when SU was supposedly in dire straights.

Coleman played significant minutes his junior year. You make it sound like he had his leg amputated and we kept him on scholarship as a sign of goodwill.

We had numerous one and dones that opened up spots. Lydon and malachi were not expected. You dont just throw schollies at anyone that late in the game

Im not sure how taking on transfers has any impact whatsoever. Same as taking a recruit in my eyes.

Also, are we all slightly overrating our recruiting and performance over the years? I think program is in a lull. I expect jb will pull us out of it.

 

[SWC75]

I was looking at 24*7's history of recruiting classes.
2018 Basketball Team Rankings

In this decade, Bennett got the Virginia job in 2009) they have been:

Syracuse 4th + 15th + 43th + 8th + 38th +8th + 18th + 38th +43rd = 215
Virginia 15th + 39th + 15th + 53rd + 32nd + 62nd + 7th + 98th + 63rd = 384

From one perspective that shows the fallacy of relying on these ratings, which are snapshots of a player's abilities at the end of his high school carrier when the key is what they do in college. But it also suggests that the success rate of the two teams should't be as skewed in Virginia's direction as it obviously is. Bennett hasn't been getting Duke or Kentucky type-classes at all.

They've got four players currently playing in the NBA: Virginia Players in the NBA - RealGM
We have five:
Syracuse Players in the NBA - RealGM
I'd rate their four above our 5, especially since BJ was included in the list. But Duke has 26 players in the NBA. North Carolina has 13. Kentucky has 28 and Kansas 11. So the Cavs haven't really had elite talent. But they've gone 170-35 since the 2013-14 season while we've gone, as noted above 130-73.

Bennett is a great coach but we have a great coach, too. We had the probation which came for the 2014-15 season but is over now. And the total recruiting class rankings the last four years have been 107-230.

I don't have the answers but I understand the frustration.