105 Wins & 73 Losses

[orangehomer]

i think the anxiety is heightened because we have an old coach, and there was a succession plan in place that got thrown out the window. some people say Hopkins left so we had to keep boeheim, some people say hopkins left on purpose so that we would have to keep boeheim. either way, as a fanbase we are stuck with an unknown and I think the real source of frustration is that everyone wants to see JB go out as a winner. we all want to see him go out on top. and there is just no evidence that it is going to happen. JB should have handed over the reigns to Hopkins as his trusted lieutenant to coach his son, and we could have all enjoyed that. we are stuck in mediocrity until he retires, and the only question left is he much damage does he do on the way out.

 

[orangehomer]

Very few people argue that our results the last few years aren’t attributable to JB and are only attributable to sanctions.

The sanctions are often argued as a counter to the anti-JB crowd that argue that he’s lost it and that his philosophy and system doesn’t work anymore. The argument is that you can’t fairly assess his results, system etc because of the overhang of the sanctions.

the problem is that you dont get to evaluate a sanctioned coach void of the sanctions. like it or not the guy has been sanctioned twice. most coaches don't make it through one. not only has he made it through two, they torpedoed a succession plan over it.

 

[Cuse_bball]

JG3 is not going to contribute year 1. He is behind Jalen, Buddy and Goodine and Eli who will probably move up top next year with Marek/Guincy/OB as the forward rotation. People need to stop watching taps of JG3 scoring 80 points against terrible competition. Watch his AAU tape where he averages like 10 points a game. He is 6'1" and not athletic. He is a version of Buddy that is 4 inches shorter and has 1 less year in our system and 1 less lifetime watching tape on the zone and our team.

Watched him tonight going into it thinking the same about him being just a smaller version of buddy that is not a good conaprison... this kid has a very good handle and can create his own shot even with bigger defenders on him... don’t know what he turns out to be in the end but the smaller buddy is a lazy take we make because of there shooting

 

[Cuse#1]

#'s do not lie

Feb 14th - 2014 - 25-0 streak ended with a loss against BC
2013–14 Syracuse Orange men's basketball team - Wikipedia

That team had 7 - yes 7 SU players drafted, signed as free agents by NBA teams - some never made it to the show, but all were at least on G teams - 7 players from that team is just incredible

Since then our record 105 wins & 73 losses

This is not about sanctions, did we stop recruiting players? We had less slots to give so yes we had to have a better batting average and yes we were limited to coaches on the road, however deal with the cards you are dealt, the record is the record , you still signed kids

Our offense is not an offense

Read the recent article about Tyus and the NBA scouts - embarrassing - about 6 scouts commented on his game and each basically said he plays 1 on 1 basketball up at SU b/c they do not run offense

We have a coach unwilling to make changes, the broken record continues every game, make a change please, put in different players, i for one would have liked to see Braswell play some, take Oshae out some, not the entire game, but give him a chance, JB is the only head coach in america who talks about well they are freshmen, yes freshmen are the kids that make up the largest % of the nba draft each season

i can't even watch frank howard play basketball anymore, hurt or not, can JB make an adjustment? I mean the guy was so bad vs VA, he has been horrible all season, i feel bad for him, but he is not getting any better with age, this is not a fine wine, we had 3 PG's to start the year, 2 of them just sit on the bench,

what about talking to the press and just providing more and more info to our competition - like - why is he telling the press that Elijah is just not ready, he can't drive around anyone or continue to insult Pascal about what he is NOT

Does "Inspire" exist in that locker room?

Or embarrassing the kids during post game press conferences - just ask Oshae how he feels

I wish each of you could see the 2 hour practices each day - I have only witnessed JB sitting on his chair and watching them run up and down the court, he is not involved with any of the 1st hour of practice, he watches while the other coaches are with their groups

I have never seen JB on the court with the players working before or after practice - never, now, maybe he does, but maybe he doesn't, i just find it very strange

He does not relate to the kids today, i thought it would be different w/ Buddy on the team, but it's not

This is about coaching & recruiting

We are no longer a tier 1 program, clearly middle of the pack

Why should we think the future should be any better w/out changes?

(Gilardino - thanks for the info)

Time for changes to be made

Most of that u said agree with. the very limited action I've seen Braswell in the game he's actually looked very good so maybe give him a little more of an opportunity when things go bad and still I'm going to say it, give Jalen Carey a little more time get his confidence and comfortability backup. I mean he is that same player who scored 20 somewhere around there points a couple games early in the year, what makes you think he can't do that now

 

[Cuse#1]

the problem is that you dont get to evaluate a sanctioned coach void of the sanctions. like it or not the guy has been sanctioned twice. most coaches don't make it through one. not only has he made it through two, they torpedoed a succession plan over it.

I mean nothing will ever change if you don't do anything different. things will continue to be the same and unfortunately a lot of thats been bad more than good

 

[kirbivore]

#'s do not lie

Feb 14th - 2014 - 25-0 streak ended with a loss against BC
2013–14 Syracuse Orange men's basketball team - Wikipedia

That team had 7 - yes 7 SU players drafted, signed as free agents by NBA teams - some never made it to the show, but all were at least on G teams - 7 players from that team is just incredible

Since then our record 105 wins & 73 losses

This is not about sanctions, did we stop recruiting players? We had less slots to give so yes we had to have a better batting average and yes we were limited to coaches on the road, however deal with the cards you are dealt, the record is the record , you still signed kids

Our offense is not an offense

Read the recent article about Tyus and the NBA scouts - embarrassing - about 6 scouts commented on his game and each basically said he plays 1 on 1 basketball up at SU b/c they do not run offense

We have a coach unwilling to make changes, the broken record continues every game, make a change please, put in different players, i for one would have liked to see Braswell play some, take Oshae out some, not the entire game, but give him a chance, JB is the only head coach in america who talks about well they are freshmen, yes freshmen are the kids that make up the largest % of the nba draft each season

i can't even watch frank howard play basketball anymore, hurt or not, can JB make an adjustment? I mean the guy was so bad vs VA, he has been horrible all season, i feel bad for him, but he is not getting any better with age, this is not a fine wine, we had 3 PG's to start the year, 2 of them just sit on the bench,

what about talking to the press and just providing more and more info to our competition - like - why is he telling the press that Elijah is just not ready, he can't drive around anyone or continue to insult Pascal about what he is NOT

Does "Inspire" exist in that locker room?

Or embarrassing the kids during post game press conferences - just ask Oshae how he feels

I wish each of you could see the 2 hour practices each day - I have only witnessed JB sitting on his chair and watching them run up and down the court, he is not involved with any of the 1st hour of practice, he watches while the other coaches are with their groups

I have never seen JB on the court with the players working before or after practice - never, now, maybe he does, but maybe he doesn't, i just find it very strange

He does not relate to the kids today, i thought it would be different w/ Buddy on the team, but it's not

This is about coaching & recruiting

We are no longer a tier 1 program, clearly middle of the pack

Why should we think the future should be any better w/out changes?

(Gilardino - thanks for the info)

Time for changes to be made

 

[DoctorBombay]

#'s do not lie

Feb 14th - 2014 - 25-0 streak ended with a loss against BC
2013–14 Syracuse Orange men's basketball team - Wikipedia

That team had 7 - yes 7 SU players drafted, signed as free agents by NBA teams - some never made it to the show, but all were at least on G teams - 7 players from that team is just incredible

Since then our record 105 wins & 73 losses

This is not about sanctions, did we stop recruiting players? We had less slots to give so yes we had to have a better batting average and yes we were limited to coaches on the road, however deal with the cards you are dealt, the record is the record , you still signed kids

Our offense is not an offense

Read the recent article about Tyus and the NBA scouts - embarrassing - about 6 scouts commented on his game and each basically said he plays 1 on 1 basketball up at SU b/c they do not run offense

We have a coach unwilling to make changes, the broken record continues every game, make a change please, put in different players, i for one would have liked to see Braswell play some, take Oshae out some, not the entire game, but give him a chance, JB is the only head coach in america who talks about well they are freshmen, yes freshmen are the kids that make up the largest % of the nba draft each season

i can't even watch frank howard play basketball anymore, hurt or not, can JB make an adjustment? I mean the guy was so bad vs VA, he has been horrible all season, i feel bad for him, but he is not getting any better with age, this is not a fine wine, we had 3 PG's to start the year, 2 of them just sit on the bench,

what about talking to the press and just providing more and more info to our competition - like - why is he telling the press that Elijah is just not ready, he can't drive around anyone or continue to insult Pascal about what he is NOT

Does "Inspire" exist in that locker room?

Or embarrassing the kids during post game press conferences - just ask Oshae how he feels

I wish each of you could see the 2 hour practices each day - I have only witnessed JB sitting on his chair and watching them run up and down the court, he is not involved with any of the 1st hour of practice, he watches while the other coaches are with their groups

I have never seen JB on the court with the players working before or after practice - never, now, maybe he does, but maybe he doesn't, i just find it very strange

He does not relate to the kids today, i thought it would be different w/ Buddy on the team, but it's not

This is about coaching & recruiting

We are no longer a tier 1 program, clearly middle of the pack

Why should we think the future should be any better w/out changes?

(Gilardino - thanks for the info)

Time for changes to be made

 

[orangecuse]

We ended up having two available once Mali left and Kaleb transferred. Gbinije and Cooney graduated that year.

We signed Taurean late and then got Gillon/White over the summer. Not sure why they thought we didn’t have room. I don’t think the staff thought he was an elite player until it was too late.

Dead on post.

We had an available scholarship for Huerter, but we didn't prioritize him, we landed Battle and the staff felt we had other position needs to fill and were holding it for that recruit, Thompson I believe as you mentioned. The staff asking Huerter to wait a year, was probably a slap in the face to him as he had other solid D1 offers, Maryland and Michigan to name a couple. I also agree that the staff didn't feel he was elite until it was too late. Two years at Maryland and he gets drafted in the first round. Another missed evaluation by the staff.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Dead on post.

We had an available scholarship for Huerter, but we didn't prioritize him, we landed Battle and the staff felt we had other position needs to fill and were holding it for that recruit, Thompson I believe as you mentioned. The staff asking Huerter to wait a year, was probably a slap in the face to him as he had other solid D1 offers, Maryland and Michigan to name a couple. I also agree that the staff didn't feel he was elite until it was too late. Two years at Maryland and he gets drafted in the first round. Another missed evaluation by the staff.

Kevin Huerter, who could have been Orange, drops 23 for Maryland in homecoming

Syracuse recruited Huerter while dealing with scholarship restrictions due to its most recent NCAA investigation. The Orange hoped Huerter would attend prep school and arrive as a freshman this season. Huerter's game blew up enough to make him a valuable commodity in 2016.

Syracuse didn't have a scholarship until Malachi Richardson left early for the NBA Draft, and by then Huerter had already made up his mind, choosing the Terrapins. The Orange brought in graduate transfer Andrew White instead.

"We didn't have scholarships," Syracuse coach Jim Boeheim said. "Everyone thinks the NCAA doesn't hurt you too much. Oh yeah, it hurts you. It crushes you. We knew he was a great player, great shooter, perfect wing player for us. He's a tremendous player and tremendous shooter."

 

[IthacaMatt]

That's why I'm genuinely curious. Because while it sounds like a dumb excuse to me (and believe me, I've tried to think this through), it's not just that handful of wagon-circlers who are offering it. There are enough insiders and reasonable posters with the same take, but they still haven't spelled out why they think that.

I think part of it that's real, is that you can't afford to miss on players, or keep a developmental player on the roster who isn't going to help you for a couple years. And so after we ran off a few guys, and then missed on some of our biggest HS prospects, we found ourselves with nobody to play last year. What did we have, 7 guys and 2 or 3 were injured? I mean, I'm tired of excuses. That's just terrible roster management. Injuries happen, but you should still have enough bodies to field a team.

 

[IthacaMatt]

BS, we took Joseph over Newton and kaleb was ranked higher. Just throwing crap off the wall is not a well thought out strategy

I remember Kaleb Joseph's recruiting like Alsacs says. I specifically recall a phone message from Mike to Kaleb while Mike was driving his car somewhere, telling Kaleb to "get his ass up here!" I don't remember how that got on social media, but I do remember it clearly.

 

[orangecuse]

Kevin Huerter, who could have been Orange, drops 23 for Maryland in homecoming

Syracuse recruited Huerter while dealing with scholarship restrictions due to its most recent NCAA investigation. The Orange hoped Huerter would attend prep school and arrive as a freshman this season. Huerter's game blew up enough to make him a valuable commodity in 2016.

Syracuse didn't have a scholarship until Malachi Richardson left early for the NBA Draft, and by then Huerter had already made up his mind, choosing the Terrapins. The Orange brought in graduate transfer Andrew White instead.

"We didn't have scholarships," Syracuse coach Jim Boeheim said. "Everyone thinks the NCAA doesn't hurt you too much. Oh yeah, it hurts you. It crushes you. We knew he was a great player, great shooter, perfect wing player for us. He's a tremendous player and tremendous shooter."

I think as Cusefan0307 mentioned, Mali leaving early freed up 'another' scholarship, but it wasn't the 'only' scholarship prior to Mali declaring. When JB stated we didn't have scholarships, I believe it was 'extra' versus 'any' as again they had one which they were holding for a different position player type at the time.

 

[Alsacs]

Kevin Huerter, who could have been Orange, drops 23 for Maryland in homecoming

Syracuse recruited Huerter while dealing with scholarship restrictions due to its most recent NCAA investigation. The Orange hoped Huerter would attend prep school and arrive as a freshman this season. Huerter's game blew up enough to make him a valuable commodity in 2016.

Syracuse didn't have a scholarship until Malachi Richardson left early for the NBA Draft, and by then Huerter had already made up his mind, choosing the Terrapins. The Orange brought in graduate transfer Andrew White instead.

"We didn't have scholarships," Syracuse coach Jim Boeheim said. "Everyone thinks the NCAA doesn't hurt you too much. Oh yeah, it hurts you. It crushes you. We knew he was a great player, great shooter, perfect wing player for us. He's a tremendous player and tremendous shooter."

Again you are providing spin.
If we wanted Huerter we could have offered him the scholarship and not renewed Chino Obokoh’s scholarship which is what ended up happening:
By 2015 Chino was a complete non factor at Syracuse.
Hunter committed in September 2015.
Chino left the program in April 2016.
Again if we wanted Huerter it could have been done but it’s easy to say sanctions.

We haven’t used all 11 scholarships on division 1 players while under sanctions 3 of 4 years. Only this year did we use all of the scholarships and that is with giving one to Buddy who didn’t need one.

Our roster management has been poor to be nice.

 

[orange79]

Again you are providing spin.
If we wanted Huerter we could have offered him the scholarship and not renewed Chino Obokoh’s scholarship which is what ended up happening:
By 2015 Chino was a complete non factor at Syracuse.
Hunter committed in September 2015.
Chino left the program in April 2016.
Again if we wanted Huerter it could have been done but it’s easy to say sanctions.

We haven’t used all 11 scholarships on division 1 players while under sanctions 3 of 4 years. Only this year did we use all of the scholarships and that is with giving one to Buddy who didn’t need one.

Our roster management has been poor to be nice.

Facts = spin.

Got it.

 

[Alsacs]

Facts = spin.

Got it.

It is spin. We could have added Huerter if we wanted too.
Fact.
You know scholarships are one year?
Right?
Chino scholarship could have been offered to Huerter.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Again you are providing spin.
If we wanted Huerter we could have offered him the scholarship and not renewed Chino Obokoh’s scholarship which is what ended up happening:
By 2015 Chino was a complete non factor at Syracuse.
Hunter committed in September 2015.
Chino left the program in April 2016.
Again if we wanted Huerter it could have been done but it’s easy to say sanctions.

We haven’t used all 11 scholarships on division 1 players while under sanctions 3 of 4 years. Only this year did we use all of the scholarships and that is with giving one to Buddy who didn’t need one.

Our roster management has been poor to be nice.

So...

JB's lying.

Huerter's lying.

The Post-Standard is lying.

 

[Alsacs]

So...

JB's lying.

Huerter's lying.

The Post-Standard is lying.

Lol lying?
Good job ignoring the point.
If JB wanted Huerter he could have offered him a scholarship and not renewed one of the current players scholarships at the end of the year.
Teams do that.
Jim Calhoun is famous for it.
You ignore that could have happened.
Jim Boeheim is playing PR.
If Jim Boeheim was hell bent on getting Kevin Huerter on scholarship he could have done so.
My god why is it so hard to understand this stuff.
It’s okay he didn’t prioritize Huerter to that degree to say he couldn’t add him is not an accurate statement.

Chino Obokoh ended up leaving the program after the 2015–16 season.
Who did we use his scholarship on in 2016-17?
Managing the roster has been poor.
We haven’t used all available scholarships during sanctions and we were down 2 per season.

But yeah call it lying my god.

 

[OttoMets]

The reduced scholarship penalties were so bad that JAB took on traditional transfers (Chukwu & Hughes) & projects (Chino) as well as kept DaJuan on the roster even though he had severe enough injuries that he couldn't be a significant contributor over four seasons*. And even then SU did not use all of their allotted scholarships.


*I'm not saying that JAB should have encouraged him to transfer, but Coleman ate up a scholarship when SU was supposedly in dire straights.

How'd this not get a 'like'? It's an important point that has to be addressed if you're insistent that sanctions were crippling.

 

[Alsacs]

How'd this not get a 'like'? It's an important point that has to be addressed if you're insistent that sanctions were crippling.

The people who are insistent that sanctions were crippling don’t care about debate.
They are JB can do no wrong crowd and lump ALL criticism towards JB as from people with agendas when it’s just looking objectively at our program.

Which is so infuriating when we all respect and love what JB has done but the roster management which is an important part of the job has been poor.

 

[OttoMets]

you will be surprised to know that from 1991-92 to 2008-9, syracuse was never once ranked in the final regular season top 10 of the ap poll. no, not even the 2003 national champs (11th).
in that 18 year stretch, the best finishes were
11th in 2003 and 2005
13th in 2009
15th in 94 and 96

Off-topic, but I'll say it again:

HOW TF DID WE GET A 4 SEED IN 2005?!

Ranked 11th, won the Big East tournament; got seeded as if we're ranked 13th to 16th. And got sent to play everyone's season-long upset special 3 hours from their campus.

The most underrated seeding screwjob in SU history.

 

[OttoMets]

I think part of it that's real, is that you can't afford to miss on players, or keep a developmental player on the roster who isn't going to help you for a couple years. And so after we ran off a few guys, and then missed on some of our biggest HS prospects, we found ourselves with nobody to play last year. What did we have, 7 guys and 2 or 3 were injured? I mean, I'm tired of excuses. That's just terrible roster management. Injuries happen, but you should still have enough bodies to field a team.

Yup, sanctions reduce the margin for error.

With a full 13 scholarships to play with, you can take a flyer on Devin Brennan McBride, hope he pans out, and run him off if he doesn't.

With 11, you might take that gamble, but that guy could be playing in an NCAA tournament game.

 

[Alsacs]

Off-topic, but I'll say it again:

HOW TF DID WE GET A 4 SEED IN 2005?!

Ranked 11th, won the Big East tournament; got seeded as if we're ranked 13th to 16th. And got sent to play everyone's season-long upset special 3 hours from their campus.

The most underrated seeding screwjob in SU history.

We were seeded correctly in 2005.
We only had 1 good regular season Big East win.
That was at Villanova.
We were swept by Pittsburgh and UConn and lost at BC in a battle of top 10 teams.
We lost to Oklahoma State at the Jimmy V in MSG.
The polls were overrating us.
We won the Big East tournament with wins over #11 seed Rutgers, #2 seed UConn and #8 seed West Virginia.
We got the correct seed.
We were a 4 seed.

 

[Alsacs]

Yup, sanctions reduce the margin for error.

With a full 13 scholarships to play with, you can take a flyer on Devin Brennan McBride, hope he pans out, and run him off if he doesn't.

With 11, you might take that gamble, but that guy could be playing in an NCAA tournament game.

Stop making sense. Let’s blame sanctions and excuse the poor roster management.

 

[OttoMets]

We were seeded correctly in 2005.
We only had 1 good regular season Big East win.
That was at Villanova.
We were swept by Pittsburgh and UConn and lost at BC in a battle of top 10 teams.
We lost to Oklahoma State at the Jimmy V in MSG.
The polls were overrating us.
We won the Big East tournament with wins over #11 seed Rutgers, #2 seed UConn and #8 seed West Virginia.
We got the correct seed.
We were a 4 seed.

We did gag away just about every regular season big game, I'll give you that. But stacked up against Duke, for instance (same record, both teams won the conference tournament, both teams had a win over a top-15 team in New York in November), I don't see how that justifies the difference in seed. And I think avenging the two UConn losses in the semis should count for something. 27-6 and BET champs deserves better than a 4, I think history would bear that out.

 

[AZOrange]

Most of that u said agree with. the very limited action I've seen Braswell in the game he's actually looked very good so maybe give him a little more of an opportunity when things go bad and still I'm going to say it, give Jalen Carey a little more time get his confidence and comfortability backup. I mean he is that same player who scored 20 somewhere around there points a couple games early in the year, what makes you think he can't do that now

Braswell has played with and against walkons hard to judge