2018 Baseball Hall of Fame

[KaiserUEO]

Not comparing to Schilling.
Schilling resume needs postseason.
Mussina’s doesn’t.

Both are HOFers.
Mussina was good I think he is the Yankee starter who makes it. I don’t see Andy Petitte getting in.

I think all 3 are HOFers, but Pettitte will have thw toughest time.

Baseball is sooo busy putting braves in, that they won’t have time to look at any Yankee other than the closer and their compiling SS.

Pettitte has 103 more wins than losses, I don’t think there’s 1 guy with that stat out of the Hall and a 3.85 era predominantly in the AL East.

Made another astounding 44 starts in the Post season and went 19-11 with a 3.81 era.


Yankee bias cost him the ROY and Cy Young.

And baseball wanting to give a Japanese player the WS MVP cost him that.

Was he often the Yankee Ace?? No we had an Ace du jour, but he was the ROCK who got the ball in the biggest games by Torre and Girardi.

 

[Shawn91111]

Cmon man of course he did well coming out of the bullpen but if Grady Little takes Pedro out after the 7th inning Mussina’s performance doesn’t matter.

It was 5-2 and then Pedro fell apart.
Mussina is a HOFer though.

And I am not saying Little didn't have a large effect on the game, and it was one of the main reason's the Yankees won, but Moose had his part in the game as well

 

[Knicks411]

Pettitte should have some ped stain on him. We'll see.

 

[kirbivore]

Good class. Next year Edgar.

If Edgar still isn't in by the time Ortiz is eligible then sloppa will have to wait

 

[KaiserUEO]

If Edgar still isn't in by the time Ortiz is eligible then sloppa will have to wait

I’m not sure Edgar is a HOfer, not to me for sure, but him not in helps my argument for keeping big paroidi out.

If david arias wasn’t a HOFr, neither is david ortiz.

 

[Knicks411]

If Edgar still isn't in by the time Ortiz is eligible then sloppa will have to wait

Next year is Edgar's final year on the ballot.

 

[Alsacs]

I’m not sure Edgar is a HOfer, not to me for sure, but him not in helps my argument for keeping big paroidi out.

If david arias wasn’t a HOFr, neither is david ortiz.

Ortiz has greased the media up.
He is getting in not as a first ballot guy though and Edgar is getting in next year.
I do love the Arias stuff though it’s funny.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Ortiz has greased the media up.
He is getting in not as a first ballot guy though and Edgar is getting in next year.
I do love the Arias stuff though it’s funny.

Yeah, that’s it OF.

Go shag some flies Arias...

 

[bpo57]

I think all 3 are HOFers, but Pettitte will have thw toughest time.

Baseball is sooo busy putting braves in, that they won’t have time to look at any Yankee other than the closer and their compiling SS.

Pettitte has 103 more wins than losses, I don’t think there’s 1 guy with that stat out of the Hall and a 3.85 era predominantly in the AL East.

Made another astounding 44 starts in the Post season and went 19-11 with a 3.81 era.


Yankee bias cost him the ROY and Cy Young.

And baseball wanting to give a Japanese player the WS MVP cost him that.

Was he often the Yankee Ace?? No we had an Ace du jour, but he was the ROCK who got the ball in the biggest games by Torre and Girardi.

Was that a jab at El Capitan?

 

[bpo57]

It would be a joke if Ortiz doesn't get in first ballot. His stats are every bit as good as other first ballot HOFers plus he's easily the best postseason performer of his generation and probably the previous generation. Focal point of three WS champions. Why else do you play the game than to win championships?

The DH argument is weak. If he were a mediocre first baseman nobody would care and that wouldn't keep him out. Killebrew, McCovey, Stargell, Cepeda, F Thomas not exactly known for their defense).The steroid argument is also weak. The guy was tested constantly over the last five years of his career and still put up monster #s right to the end. Many of the obvious abusers fell off badly once they were no longer able to use the PEDs.

 

[br801]

It would be a joke if Ortiz doesn't get in first ballot. His stats are every bit as good as other first ballot HOFers plus he's easily the best postseason performer of his generation and probably the previous generation. Focal point of three WS champions. Why else do you play the game than to win championships?

The DH argument is weak. If he were a mediocre first baseman nobody would care and that wouldn't keep him out. Killebrew, McCovey, Stargell, Cepeda, Thomas not exactly known for their defense).The steroid argument is also weak. The guy was tested constantly over the last five years of his career and still put up monster #s right to the end. Many of the obvious abusers fell off badly once they were no longer able to use the PEDs.

No way does Ortiz go in on the first ballot, for while he never tested positive, the scent of PEDs always hovered around him. His body certainly changed in his later years (smaller and softer), but to his credit he put up big numbers to the end. Maybe he never really needed the extra help.

The fact that he was a likeable and quotable guy will get him in eventually, IMO. But in what world should he be a first ballot guy and Vlad Guerrero is not?

 

[Briancuse]

Pettitte should have some ped stain on him. We'll see.

He does and frankly even without the ped thing he's not a hof

 

[Knicks411]

No way does Ortiz go in on the first ballot, for while he never tested positive, the scent of PEDs always hovered around him. His body certainly changed in his later years (smaller and softer), but to his credit he put up big numbers to the end. Maybe he never really needed the extra help.

The fact that he was a likeable and quotable guy will get him in eventually, IMO. But in what world should he be a first ballot guy and Vlad Guerrero is not?

Might be a lot softer ballot for Papi than Vlad

 

[KaiserUEO]

If the big ped goes in in the 1st ballot, I’ll never step foot in the HOF again.

Hell, I’d that roid powered DH makes it all, I may never as well.

 

[bpo57]

No way does Ortiz go in on the first ballot, for while he never tested positive, the scent of PEDs always hovered around him. His body certainly changed in his later years (smaller and softer), but to his credit he put up big numbers to the end. Maybe he never really needed the extra help.

The fact that he was a likeable and quotable guy will get him in eventually, IMO. But in what world should he be a first ballot guy and Vlad Guerrero is not?

So he's "eventually" going to get into the HOF because he's "likeable and quotable"? lol c'mon br take off the pinstriped goggles would you please?

The scent of PEDs hovered around a lot of players - how do we know Vlad didn't use PEDs? Nothing was ever proven with Ortiz and the fact that he tore it up for several years despite intense testing (he said they'd come to his house unannounced at 7 am to do tests) weakens that line of attack.

Oh btw he hit nearly 100 more dingers and drove in close to 300 more runs than Vlad. I get the defense vs. DH argument and that's very meaningful for sure but so is the postseason angle which isn't even comparable.

Vlad should have been a first timer as you said above. But so should Ortiz. When you're the main man for three different WS champs that's a big deal. Not many out there you can say that about.

 

[br801]

So he's "eventually" going to get into the HOF because he's "likeable and quotable"? lol c'mon br take off the pinstriped goggles would you please?

The scent of PEDs hovered around a lot of players - how do we know Vlad didn't use PEDs? Nothing was ever proven with Ortiz and the fact that he tore it up for several years despite intense testing (he said they'd come to his house unannounced at 7 am to do tests) weakens that line of attack.

Oh btw he hit nearly 100 more dingers and drove in close to 300 more runs than Vlad. I get the defense vs. DH argument and that's very meaningful for sure but so is the postseason angle which isn't even comparable.

Vlad should have been a first timer as you said above. But so should Ortiz. When you're the main man for three different WS champs that's a big deal. Not many out there you can say that about.

I should have said he'll get in sooner than some others with HoF numbers and PED clouds hanging over their heads because he is more likeable. I'm not questioning his worthiness. I also don't think we're going to see guys who were primarily DHs go in on the first ballot anytime soon.

 

[KaiserUEO]

So he's "eventually" going to get into the HOF because he's "likeable and quotable"? lol c'mon br take off the pinstriped goggles would you please?

The scent of PEDs hovered around a lot of players - how do we know Vlad didn't use PEDs? Nothing was ever proven with Ortiz and the fact that he tore it up for several years despite intense testing (he said they'd come to his house unannounced at 7 am to do tests) weakens that line of attack.

Oh btw he hit nearly 100 more dingers and drove in close to 300 more runs than Vlad. I get the defense vs. DH argument and that's very meaningful for sure but so is the postseason angle which isn't even comparable.

Vlad should have been a first timer as you said above. But so should Ortiz. When you're the main man for three different WS champs that's a big deal. Not many out there you can say that about.

Oh!! So now being the ‘main man’ matters!!!

Well that was Manny, anyway.

Regardless...O’Neill hit 3rd AND played Right for 4, WS Champ teams as Bernie hit 4th for the same 4 while PLAYING CF...and Posada hit 5th for another 4...WHILE CATCHING...and all never saw a 2md ballot.

Just like david arias won’t.

 

[bpo57]

Oh!! So now being the ‘main man’ matters!!!

Well that was Manny, anyway.

Regardless...O’Neill hit 3rd AND played Right for 4, WS Champ teams as Bernie hit 4th for the same 4 while PLAYING CF...and Posada hit 5th for another 4...WHILE CATCHING...and all never saw a 2md ballot.

Just like david arias won’t.

You're not comparing any of those NYY players to Papi, are ya? On second thought I would admit that collectively they did about as much damage as the Large Father. Asking a NYY fan to provide an honest assessment of Ortiz or Schilling is a big ask. They break out into hives at the mention of their names.

 

[bpo57]

I should have said he'll get in sooner than some others with HoF numbers and PED clouds hanging over their heads because he is more likeable. I'm not questioning his worthiness. I also don't think we're going to see guys who were primarily DHs go in on the first ballot anytime soon.

I think the DH argument only goes so far. Let's face it, when they're done most power hitters are evaluated almost entirely on what they did at the plate. I could easily rattle off a half dozen guys that were well below average position players that are in the HoF.

 

[br801]

On second thought I would admit that collectively they did about as much damage as the Large Father.

That's complete nonsense and you know it.

 

[br801]

I think the DH argument only goes so far. Let's face it, when they're done most power hitters are evaluated almost entirely on what they did at the plate. I could easily rattle off a half dozen guys that were well below average position players that are in the HoF.

Somehow you've missed my point even as I've been agreeing with you on the HoF-worthiness of one of your guys.

 

[bpo57]

That's complete nonsense and you know it.

In his 14 years in Boston, Ortiz averaged 35 HRs and 110 RBIs and an OPS over .950. Those three guys were very good players but don't belong in the same sentence with Ortiz and you know it.

 

[bpo57]

Somehow you've missed my point even as I've been agreeing with you on the HoF-worthiness of one of your guys.

Sorry, you threw me off the trail with the "eventually" and "quotable" comments.

We disagree on first ballot worthiness. That's fine. We also disagree that Ortiz and Vlad were comparable. You seemed to think that notion was crazy. Not sure how you can think that way when Ortiz was clearly more productive, regular season and definitely postseason. I'll grant the defensive aspect is big but not so much that it more than offsets Ortiz' superior work at the plate.

 

[br801]

Sorry, you threw me off the trail with the "eventually" and "quotable" comments.

We disagree on first ballot worthiness. That's fine. We also disagree that Ortiz and Vlad were comparable. You seemed to think that notion was crazy. Not sure how you can think that way when Ortiz was clearly more productive, regular season and definitely postseason. I'll grant the defensive aspect is big but not so much that it more than offsets Ortiz' superior work at the plate.

Ortiz was not the superior hitter. Go look at their per 162 game batting numbers on baseball-reference.com and you'll find they were remarkably similar offensively across the board. Since Vlad was a quintessential 5-tool player, he gets the nod from me as the superior player overall.

 

[bpo57]

Ortiz was not the superior hitter. Go look at their per 162 game batting numbers on baseball-reference.com and you'll find they were remarkably similar offensively across the board. Since Vlad was a quintessential 5-tool player, he gets the nod from me as the superior player overall.

I don't want to denigrate Vlad because he was a great player but he wasn't remotely a quintessential 5 tool player. Not even close. He led the league in errors nine different times and is 5th all time in MLB history for most errors made by a RFer. He stopped finishing first in errors when he began to DH which happened more than 1/3 of the games he played during his career in AL parks. He was very briefly a stolen base threat but that didn't last too long. In fact in his last nine seasons he averaged 7 SBs a year. You can find that info on baseball-reference.com.

As I said before, Ortiz finished nearly 100 dingers and nearly 300 ribbies ahead of Vlad. That's a fairly significant differential When you look at the all time lists for HRs and RBIs there are an awful lot of HOFers that are well behind Papi. I don't think you can breeze by the postseason stats either. I'd say the only guy to rival Ortiz in the last half century would be Reggie Jackson.