2018 Fall Ball Thread...

[OrangeXtreme]

I see Magnan making an impact! No is talking about Berkman? RS this year? No doubt Cook will see time!

Remind me what numbers did the Gait twins play in in their first season before 19 & 22?

Will the new NCAA redshirt rules be in for Lacrosse this year?

Redshirt rules for football only.

 

[ohmilax34]

I see Magnan making an impact! No is talking about Berkman? RS this year? No doubt Cook will see time!

Remind me what numbers did the Gait twins play in in their first season before 19 & 22?

Will the new NCAA redshirt rules be in for Lacrosse this year?

I keep forgetting about berkman. Any reports on how he has done so far this fall? I like his game.

 

[ClvrUsrnm]

Remind me what numbers did the Gait twins play in in their first season before 19 & 22?

Wasn’t it something like 37 and 39?

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[WoodyUK]

Wasn’t it something like 37 and 39?

I have seen it a million times but can’t remember, I know it shows footage on the Lost Trophy! I was wondering if they are the same numbers as the Kim Twins have this year?

 

[ClvrUsrnm]

 

[ClvrUsrnm]

There are a few 1987 games on YouTube

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[WoodyUK]

Looks like 38 & 39 to me!

 

[sholokov2]

I'm not holding my breath for a Kim twin to make a dent on offense, especially with the depth SU has returning on offense.

Buttermore is someone who seems to divide opinion a little here. Maybe it is just Sholokov who isn't big on him based on HS film, I believe. I thought Buttermore would be an SSDM because he was a good 3 sport athlete and his film didn't show a lot of elite offensive tools, but when he was in HS I predicted that he would eventually make an impact because he was a 3 sport athlete and had more upside than someone who spent more time in HS playing lacrosse.

Lipka and Carlin seem like locks for the 2nd midfield line. After that it's Quinn, Buttermore, Magnan, McKinney and O'Sullivan? Again, it's hard to see one of the Kim twins breaking into the top 6.

However, SU loses a couple options at SSDM with Hutchings and Ford leaving, so maybe that's more likely. What's the depth chart there after the fall scrimmages? Dearth, Oladunmoye, Schwasnick (or is he just face off wings still), Nick Martin (man down only last year), Partamian got time at the beginning of last season, Murphy and Helmer can also play long stick. I like when they have about 4 guys they can really trust at SSDM.

With the depth at LSM, I think it'd be nice to see Helmer and Murphy stay at short stick, since it seems that position is weaker, and I don't like the idea of a player switching between and short and long stick mid-game.

ohmi- I like your thinking here. I think Kims are natural alternatives for ssdms. Much more impressed with their athleticism than with their offensive skills. Yes, I am skeptical of Buttermore; however, I'm wrong more than half the time. Agree that stick interchangeability leaves both less than optimal. I love Murphy with a long stick. He is big, strong, aggressive and pretty fast. Could play either LSM or close.

 

[ClvrUsrnm]

Looks like 38 & 39 to me!

I was close. I think those are the Kim’s numbers. Nice twin tradition.

 

[ClvrUsrnm]

ohmi- I like your thinking here. I think Kims are natural alternatives for ssdms. Much more impressed with their athleticism than with their offensive skills. Yes, I am skeptical of Buttermore; however, I'm wrong more than half the time. Agree that stick interchangeability leaves both less than optimal. I love Murphy with a long stick. He is big, strong, aggressive and pretty fast. Could play either LSM or close.

As a once and future (next summer) LSM, I can personally say it’s really weird to switch between a short pole and a long pole in the same game, especially when you’re more comfortable with a long pole, as I am.

The throwing motion is different. And so is defending up top. But the key to playing good defense is good feet and positioning. The stick is the last thing any defenseman should worry about. If Helmer and Murphy have the feet and athleticism, the stick shouldn’t matter that much. The more depth and versatility at SSDM the better. Unless the d-mids turn into Towson 2017, matchups will probably dictate who plays where and when.

 

[CuSeLaX]

My biggest worry is that we are too deep at midfield (Which this year is no problem at all). However I'm worried because over the next two years only 2 midfield spots on the top 6 will open up (Carlins and Trimbos). Whoever doesn't get that 6th spot in the top 6 is a risk to transfer. Hopefully we can blow more than our share of teams out and get that third line some time. We may have the best third line in the country this year. That all said I'm glad we are worrying about whose going to get the last spot on second line verse who do we even have.

 

[ClvrUsrnm]

My biggest worry is that we are too deep at midfield (Which this year is no problem at all). However I'm worried because over the next two years only 2 midfield spots on the top 6 will open up (Carlins and Trimbos). Whoever doesn't get that 6th spot in the top 6 is a risk to transfer. Hopefully we can blow more than our share of teams out and get that third line some time. We may have the best third line in the country this year. That all said I'm glad we are worrying about whose going to get the last spot on second line verse who do we even have.

If the 3s are equal to the 2s, or just below, why won’t they see regular time? Depth is huge, especially when it gets hot and (hopefully) deeper in the playoffs. Duke had one real midfield line this season. They went far with it, but Yale buried them with depth in the final.

The depth also allows, again, for matchups. Maybe Lipka can’t beat a particular Virginia defender but Buttermore can. Or Magnan. Gives them the opportunity to mix things up if Plan A doesn’t work.

I’m excited to see waves of middies being thrown at teams, especially against the ACC

 

[Powellfan]

I am excited about the potential of depth on the midfield, but I cant agree with the statement that says Syracuse has the best third midfield in the country. Quite frankly none of the contenders for those positions have put up many points at all. As Ohiomilax said, Lipka and Carlin are the only proven second line middies they have and Carlin still makes me nervous whenever he has the ball in his stick. Buttermore had a hat trick in a blowout, O'Sullivan has shown flashes, Quinn came in highly regarded but didn't do much in the limited runs he did get, Magnan is an unproven frosh, McKinney did not produce at all last year despite the increased playing time. I just worry that we are rating these guys maybe a little too highly given that we follow them so closely. I have concerns about the midfield.

Also, keep in mind that if you are running a third midfield, that means less shifts for the first midfield, which so far is head and shoulders above the guys below them (save maybe Lipka). Do they start getting annoyed if they aren't playing as much as maybe they think they should be? To me its more important to keep those guys "happy" as opposed to maybe a guy who quite frankly hasn't done anything yet.

Didn't mean to get negative but I was enamored with the idea of a third midfield for a long time, until last year when I realized it stunted the development of the most talented offensive players and didn't produce many actual points. I'm still not quite over McKinney getting all that playing time last year. I could see a 4 man rotation for the second line, but I can't get on board with a full time third midfield line. To me, Lipka always playing with a rotation of Carlin/Buttermore/Quinn would be the way to go.

 

[DoctahLexus]

I am excited about the potential of depth on the midfield, but I cant agree with the statement that says Syracuse has the best third midfield in the country. Quite frankly none of the contenders for those positions have put up many points at all. As Ohiomilax said, Lipka and Carlin are the only proven second line middies they have and Carlin still makes me nervous whenever he has the ball in his stick. Buttermore had a hat trick in a blowout, O'Sullivan has shown flashes, Quinn came in highly regarded but didn't do much in the limited runs he did get, Magnan is an unproven frosh, McKinney did not produce at all last year despite the increased playing time. I just worry that we are rating these guys maybe a little too highly given that we follow them so closely. I have concerns about the midfield.

Also, keep in mind that if you are running a third midfield, that means less shifts for the first midfield, which so far is head and shoulders above the guys below them (save maybe Lipka). Do they start getting annoyed if they aren't playing as much as maybe they think they should be? To me its more important to keep those guys "happy" as opposed to maybe a guy who quite frankly hasn't done anything yet.

Didn't mean to get negative but I was enamored with the idea of a third midfield for a long time, until last year when I realized it stunted the development of the most talented offensive players and didn't produce many actual points. I'm still not quite over McKinney getting all that playing time last year. I could see a 4 man rotation for the second line, but I can't get on board with a full time third midfield line. To me, Lipka always playing with a rotation of Carlin/Buttermore/Quinn would be the way to go.

Agreed. Unless you are running 2 way middies, or your guys are gassed from repeatedly having to stay out on D due to a quick clear, there is no reason to play anyone but your strongest offensive weapons at middie. Our middie depth is a good thing, but only in the sense that we have a lot of guys capable of breaking out and stepping up into a role on the top 5 or 6. We have options if someone gets hurt, or the the lines are super gassed after a long game on a 90 degree day or something. Rehfuss and Solomon play the entire game on offense dodging against d-poles and riding hard on clears. Why should guys of a high caliber like Dordevic and Trimboli not be asked to do at least close to the same thing when they almost always run off with the other teams d middies after they clear?

Sometimes Desko needs to access his inner Jim Boeheim. Find the 6 guys with talent that he trusts the most, play them even if they get tired, bring in other guys when necessary but have zero tolerance for dumb mistakes or you will feel the burning wrath of a thousand suns and ride the bench. It really annoyed me last year seeing him randomly experimenting with guys like McKinney, Lane, Simmons, and Quinn, when you had guys like Trimboli Curry and Dordevic who actually have shown they can beat their man and put the ball in the cage and were not even close to being overworked. It's possible he didn't trust their youth/inexperience but there are no excuses this year. Those three better be on the field as much as possible and look as tired as Battle and Howard after the game.

 

[ctlax]

I am excited about the potential of depth on the midfield, but I cant agree with the statement that says Syracuse has the best third midfield in the country. Quite frankly none of the contenders for those positions have put up many points at all. As Ohiomilax said, Lipka and Carlin are the only proven second line middies they have and Carlin still makes me nervous whenever he has the ball in his stick. Buttermore had a hat trick in a blowout, O'Sullivan has shown flashes, Quinn came in highly regarded but didn't do much in the limited runs he did get, Magnan is an unproven frosh, McKinney did not produce at all last year despite the increased playing time. I just worry that we are rating these guys maybe a little too highly given that we follow them so closely. I have concerns about the midfield.

Also, keep in mind that if you are running a third midfield, that means less shifts for the first midfield, which so far is head and shoulders above the guys below them (save maybe Lipka). Do they start getting annoyed if they aren't playing as much as maybe they think they should be? To me its more important to keep those guys "happy" as opposed to maybe a guy who quite frankly hasn't done anything yet.

Didn't mean to get negative but I was enamored with the idea of a third midfield for a long time, until last year when I realized it stunted the development of the most talented offensive players and didn't produce many actual points. I'm still not quite over McKinney getting all that playing time last year. I could see a 4 man rotation for the second line, but I can't get on board with a full time third midfield line. To me, Lipka always playing with a rotation of Carlin/Buttermore/Quinn would be the way to go.

Carlin doesn't excite me unless he's improved drastically.

 

[sholokov2]

I am excited about the potential of depth on the midfield, but I cant agree with the statement that says Syracuse has the best third midfield in the country. Quite frankly none of the contenders for those positions have put up many points at all. As Ohiomilax said, Lipka and Carlin are the only proven second line middies they have and Carlin still makes me nervous whenever he has the ball in his stick. Buttermore had a hat trick in a blowout, O'Sullivan has shown flashes, Quinn came in highly regarded but didn't do much in the limited runs he did get, Magnan is an unproven frosh, McKinney did not produce at all last year despite the increased playing time. I just worry that we are rating these guys maybe a little too highly given that we follow them so closely. I have concerns about the midfield.

Also, keep in mind that if you are running a third midfield, that means less shifts for the first midfield, which so far is head and shoulders above the guys below them (save maybe Lipka). Do they start getting annoyed if they aren't playing as much as maybe they think they should be? To me its more important to keep those guys "happy" as opposed to maybe a guy who quite frankly hasn't done anything yet.

Didn't mean to get negative but I was enamored with the idea of a third midfield for a long time, until last year when I realized it stunted the development of the most talented offensive players and didn't produce many actual points. I'm still not quite over McKinney getting all that playing time last year. I could see a 4 man rotation for the second line, but I can't get on board with a full time third midfield line. To me, Lipka always playing with a rotation of Carlin/Buttermore/Quinn would be the way to go.

Amen

 

[ivorytower]

I am excited about the potential of depth on the midfield, but I cant agree with the statement that says Syracuse has the best third midfield in the country. Quite frankly none of the contenders for those positions have put up many points at all. As Ohiomilax said, Lipka and Carlin are the only proven second line middies they have and Carlin still makes me nervous whenever he has the ball in his stick. Buttermore had a hat trick in a blowout, O'Sullivan has shown flashes, Quinn came in highly regarded but didn't do much in the limited runs he did get, Magnan is an unproven frosh, McKinney did not produce at all last year despite the increased playing time. I just worry that we are rating these guys maybe a little too highly given that we follow them so closely. I have concerns about the midfield.

Also, keep in mind that if you are running a third midfield, that means less shifts for the first midfield, which so far is head and shoulders above the guys below them (save maybe Lipka). Do they start getting annoyed if they aren't playing as much as maybe they think they should be? To me its more important to keep those guys "happy" as opposed to maybe a guy who quite frankly hasn't done anything yet.

Didn't mean to get negative but I was enamored with the idea of a third midfield for a long time, until last year when I realized it stunted the development of the most talented offensive players and didn't produce many actual points. I'm still not quite over McKinney getting all that playing time last year. I could see a 4 man rotation for the second line, but I can't get on board with a full time third midfield line. To me, Lipka always playing with a rotation of Carlin/Buttermore/Quinn would be the way to go.

Believe that Quinn will be a very good mid aside Lipka this year. A bull and his skillset is real, needed the year to watch and hone. A bit less certain on others making the same leap up but 2nd line should be good. Depth beyond 6-7 may be used at times but agree that playing our prime players more this year is best.

 

[ClvrUsrnm]

For the record, I never said the third line was as good as the second or that it was the best in the country. I said “if.”

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[JeremyCuse]

As a once and future (next summer) LSM, I can personally say it’s really weird to switch between a short pole and a long pole in the same game, especially when you’re more comfortable with a long pole, as I am.

The throwing motion is different. And so is defending up top. But the key to playing good defense is good feet and positioning. The stick is the last thing any defenseman should worry about. If Helmer and Murphy have the feet and athleticism, the stick shouldn’t matter that much. The more depth and versatility at SSDM the better. Unless the d-mids turn into Towson 2017, matchups will probably dictate who plays where and when.

I think Helmer is likely to be a full time SSDM this year, theres so much depth right now at LSM it makes little sense to have him run with a pole with 3+ guys ahead of him. Helmer has a mean streak to that will work well at the position. He doesn't have the O skills that some of the other guys have to push transition but he could develop into an excellent defender.

 

[JeremyCuse]

My biggest worry is that we are too deep at midfield (Which this year is no problem at all). However I'm worried because over the next two years only 2 midfield spots on the top 6 will open up (Carlins and Trimbos). Whoever doesn't get that 6th spot in the top 6 is a risk to transfer. Hopefully we can blow more than our share of teams out and get that third line some time. We may have the best third line in the country this year. That all said I'm glad we are worrying about whose going to get the last spot on second line verse who do we even have.

SU usually plays three mid lines although Desko and Donahue are not consistent with how much that third line sees from game to game. If the schedule comes out as Creaserat posted there won't be much in the way of blow out opportunities so I am hopeful we had a game or two as the currently schedule is only 12 games which is very low, at minimum we should be looking to sneak in Bingo or another team like that at some point for a mid week game. I think most of the middies here now understand that PT will be tough to get especially with the first line having two underclassmen and a JR on it. Magnan and some of the other young guys can earn some PT on the second or third line if they show enough in practice. I think Fiorini and at least one of the Kims if not both are headed for a RS.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Believe that Quinn will be a very good mid aside Lipka this year. A bull and his skillset is real, needed the year to watch and hone. A bit less certain on others making the same leap up but 2nd line should be good. Depth beyond 6-7 may be used at times but agree that playing our prime players more this year is best.

Quinn, Lipka Buttermore and maybe Magnan could make a great second line. Lots of different skill sets and all 4 can shoot. Magnan I think will really benefit from being around other high end offensive players, the last two years in HS I don't believe he had much help and was double and triple teamed a lot. I wish Quinn had red-shirted last year based on the minimal amount of PT he had but I expect a big step forward as you do. Lauder is another guy to keep an eye on if he stays at midfield.

 

[sholokov2]

Quinn, Lipka Buttermore and maybe Magnan could make a great second line. Lots of different skill sets and all 4 can shoot. Magnan I think will really benefit from being around other high end offensive players, the last two years in HS I don't believe he had much help and was double and triple teamed a lot. I wish Quinn had red-shirted last year based on the minimal amount of PT he had but I expect a big step forward as you do. Lauder is another guy to keep an eye on if he stays at midfield.

Quinn was a puzzle to me last year. In early games, when he played, he seemed slow and out of shape when he tried to dodge from the outside. Toward the end of the year, he appeared to emerge in open spaces to loose his dangerous, short, quick shot. Maybe dodging solo to create his shot is not his strength. I was impressed with his off ball intelligence and hard shot. He might be a good EMO sniper. Even a Voigt like crease or deep crease option.