2020 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot | Page 6 | Syracusefan.com

2020 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

IthacaMatt said:
You might not LIKE Clemens, but he certainly belongs in the Hall of Fame.
He averaged a 17-9 record with a 3.12 ERA - for TWENTY-FOUR SEASONS!

Third most strikeouts all time. For his career, he had a rating of over 139 wins versus replacement (WAR). And he won roughly 2/3 of his games.

7 Cy Young Awards, 7 ERA titles.
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I think everything after 1996 was steroids related for Clemens.
He was a .500 pitcher from 1993 to 1996.
He lost velocity with the Sox his last 2 years. Then poof he got bigger and got his velocity back and then some in 1997 when he went to Toronto.

Unlike Bonds I don’t think steroids saved his career. I think steroids prolonged Clemens to what he became. That and his lawsuit with McNamee and the government trial.
He doesn’t belong in the HOF.
I think his 1984-1996 career is probably good enough but it’s a lot like Schilling minus the playoff success.

Bonds if he stopped playing baseball after the 1999 season I think he is a lock HOFer.

Both Bonds and Clemens are cheaters but I am voting for Bonds no matter what I would need to examine the Clemens 1984-96 stats a little more before checking his box automatically.
I probably would but screw him.
 
Going to be very curious when A-Rod becomes eligible. NO ONE has turned their image around like him. He's served an actual suspension for steroid use. Do the voters let him in because they feel that they "know" how long he took steroids for? Does he get left out all together?

I am in the camp that guys like Bonds, Rose, Clemens, A-Rod, etc SHOULD be put in. They all have their stories... but I think they have their place in the Hall
 
I wouldn’t vote for A-Rod.
He is like Manny Ramirez a two time offender.
His 2003 AL MVP is steroids tainted.
He got caught by Selina Roberts.
Unlike Ortiz the actual drugs he was caught using were leaked Primobolan and testosterone.

He got caught. He admitted he used steroids from 2001 to 2003 and claimed he was clean when he joined the Yankees.
We know he lied and he got caught again with Biogenesis. He got a 1 year suspension. The longest player suspension at the time. A-Rod shouldn’t be in the HOF.
 
Alsacs said:
I wouldn’t vote for A-Rod.
He is like Manny Ramirez a two time offender.
His 2003 AL MVP is steroids tainted.
He got caught by Selina Roberts.
Unlike Ortiz the actual drugs he was caught using were leaked Primobolan and testosterone.

He got caught. He admitted he used steroids from 2001 to 2003 and claimed he was clean when he joined the Yankees.
We know he lied and he got caught again with Biogenesis. He got a 1 year suspension. The longest player suspension at the time. A-Rod shouldn’t be in the HOF.
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I don't necessarily disagree ... but look at how much his image has swung in the positive light since all of that. THAT matters. I don't think he gets in... but he's more likeable than he's ever been by a big margin. Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling are all about as likeable as wet socks
 
rrlbees said:
the career needed to get in. seems to be a low bar. mlb seems to be worse than the other sports.
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I don't know about the NBA or NFL, but the MLB is way above the NHL, (Bernie Federko, Guy Carbonneau, Phil Housley, Clark Gillies for example)

I do think you may be underrating Larry Walker. (I may be biased as he was one of my three favourite Expos of all time and a Canadian).

He is a lower tier, but a hall of famer nonetheless -- so getting in the last year of eligibility to show his standing is fair enough. His profile and complete ability to influence game makes him a much better hall of famer than Jim Rice for example, but Rice got in because he played for Boston.

Walker was a great hitter, who also got on base at a high rate.
Good power, not great.
Outstanding fielder -- range and arm, and so smart.

One of the smartest players I have ever watched play alot (when he was with the Expos) -- outstanding base runner who would steal bases at critical times.

Yes Colorado inflated his stats, but his road OPS while playing for Colorado was still .899. Many players have been in with huge home / road splits (Wade Boggs for example -- sorry don't mean to pick on the Red Sox here). And the other factor is people didn't respect how great a player he was between 1992-1994 in Montreal., but he was terribly under appreciated at the time.

His career WAR is 72.7 ... WAR is adjusted for stadiums, so it adjusts for his career in Colorado. That WAR is at the borderline hall of fame level -- but most retired players around that level are in the Hall. Amongst retired players I count 16 of the 23 players closest to him that are hall of famers. (And will be 17 of 24 wehn you add in Jeter)


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In conclusion, I do think the case for Walker is pretty sound. Is it clear cut? No, which is why I won't rail anyone that does not believe he is a hall of famer. A writer not having him on their ballot will indeed be making a mistake, but it is not an egregious one either.
 
Briancuse said:
It seems to get lower last night they were trying to make a case for Scott rolen. Very good player nowhere near hof.
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www.cincinnati.com

Why Scott Rolen has a better Hall of Fame case than you think

Former Reds third baseman Scott Rolen is on the Hall of Fame ballot and he has a case as one of the top 10 third basemen of all time.
www.cincinnati.com


Rolen’s the best defensive 3B since Brooks Robinson and he was a better hitter than Robinson. His career was hindered by injury, but that didn’t stop Kirby Puckett from getting in.

Eckstein won the 2006 World Series MVP because he was a fan favorite and media darling, but the award should have gone to Rolen and would have helped his HOF case.

Jim Edmonds deserves to be in the HOF as well and it’s a shame that he didn’t even last long on the ballot.
 
I personally think that Bonds, Clemens, ARod. should get in the hall of fame. But not through this vote, and not through the modern day veterans committee.

I am thinking of some sort of compromise.

Maybe in 10 year, a special Steroids committee can be established to enshrine the three into the Hall of Fame. They can be recognized as hall of famers due to their accomplishments being at such a high level of greatness, but I would also not grant them the same enshrinement ceremonies that others get.

I might not go deeper that those three.
 
jncuse said:
I don't know about the NBA or NFL, but the MLB is way above the NHL, (Bernie Federko, Guy Carbonneau, Phil Housley, Clark Gillies for example)
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What’s with all the former Blues hate, man?
 
jncuse said:
I personally think that Bonds, Clemens, ARod. should get in the hall of fame. But not through this vote, and not through the modern day veterans committee.

I am thinking of some sort of compromise.

Maybe in 10 year, a special Steroids committee can be established to enshrine the three into the Hall of Fame. They can be recognized as hall of famers due to their accomplishments being at such a high level of greatness, but I would also not grant them the same enshrinement ceremonies that others get.

I might not go deeper that those three.
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I like it. And make sure the plaques include the PED usage.

Shoeless Joe should be in as well, especially in light of this Astros nonsense.
 
MSOrange said:
I think that's true to some extent, but I guess I don't think it's too extreme. I don't think Harold Baines should've come close to getting in, and Alan Trammell is probably a "Hall of Really Good" player.

I might be missing some others. Who is on your list that you don't think should be in?
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I am OK with Alan Trammell because he was way better relative to his position (SS) at his time, then say Harold Baines. I always had Trammell in my main ballot.

At the same time he is in that category that Larry Walker in. I believe he is a hall of famer, but I can't really argue against those that think he is not a hall of famer.

It's sort of like when Syracuse gets on the bubble. If you are not clear cut in, and you miss it, I don't really get that upset.
 
The one point against Walker is that he missed a bunch of games due to injuries, and IMO that should be held against you.

There is two ways to take it:
1) He put up good numbers in spite of injuries, and if he had avoided them his case was much better so some can spin it into a positive. OR
2) Durability matters. The inability to play 150+ games regularly hurts the teams you play on, and it should impact your legacy.
 
Larry Walker in.

Advanced stats / analytics helped him get over the top. similar to Tim Raines.
 
Some ahole didn’t vote Jeter
 
I didn’t realize this was Walker’s last year on the ballot.
Glad he got in.
Schilling at 70% means he will get in likely next year.

Jeter at 99.7% he wasn’t unanimous.
 
LOL at the jackass that did not vote Jeter in,

Schilling got to 70%. He is a very worthy hall of famer, but I am fine with making him wait a bit. Fake sock ... his personality.
 
jncuse said:
LOL at the jackass that did not vote Jeter in,

Schilling got to 70%. He is a very worthy hall of famer, but I am fine with making him wait a bit. Fake sock ... his personality.
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He doesn’t belong in. And it’s not his politics. Shouldn’t matter whether you are a republican, Democrat, conservative or liberal. But it should matter how you comport yourself. He is a total POS with how he talks and behaves. The HOF should take being a decent human being into account.
 
jncuse said:
LOL at the jackass that did not vote Jeter in,

Schilling got to 70%. He is a very worthy hall of famer, but I am fine with making him wait a bit. Fake sock ... his personality.
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Some clown looking for attention.
 
rrlbees said:
He doesn’t belong in. And it’s not his politics. Shouldn’t matter whether you are a republican, Democrat, conservative or liberal. But it should matter how you comport yourself. He is a total POS with how he talks and behaves. The HOF should take being a decent human being into account.
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The guy was 11 and 2 with a 232 era in the playoffs. There are bigger pos than him in the hof.
 
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