2021 Tokyo Olympic Basketball...

[MSOrange]

All apologies to Keldon Johnson but adding him to the team was like the Harlem Globetrotters replacing Meadowlark Lemon with one of the Washington Generals players.

I'm only a very casual observer of the NBA, but I had to google him to make sure I knew who he was.

 

[MikeSU02]

I'm only a very casual observer of the NBA, but I had to google him to make sure I knew who he was.

Good player with upside. Not the right choice for this team, for sure.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Good player with upside. Not the right choice for this team, for sure.

There's a universe where he could be, if the strategy is to build a team where guys have really clearly defined roles, and the plan is to have that squad gel together over several years of international competition so that they resemble more of a traditional, high performing team than an all-star squad.

But that ain't the strategy right now.

 

[MikeSU02]

There's a universe where he could be, if the strategy is to build a team where guys have really clearly defined roles, and the plan is to have that squad gel together over several years of international competition so that they resemble more of a traditional, high performing team than an all-star squad.

But that ain't the strategy right now.

Agree, totally.

Right now it's ugly.

 

[sufandu]

I think the traditional big thing definitely makes a difference. We're not rolling with David Robinson and Patrick Ewing or Shaq.

I think, though, that there is a serious issue with the foul hunting / getting fouls called in the NBA that just doesn't exist in FIBA and these guys like Book, Tatum, Beal, etc (who are all obviously very good basketball players) fundamentally aren't accustomed to not being able to get to the FT line since those guys play a lot of iso ball (KD and Dame aren't innocent of this either).

So I think what's happening is that Pop is trying to get ball movement going, but we have no real PGs, a lot of iso-heavy guys and to your point, no real bigs. And, it's not like we even have Trae and a rim running big that we can go pick and roll and just hammer them with floaters and alley oops.

Our best passer might be Draymond. Our best big is Bam, I guess?

I keep harping on this, but if they weren't going to be able to get all of KD/Bron/Steph/Kawhi, they needed to make sure the rest of the pool was much better than what it was.

Again, Trae and Zion should not only be on this team but probably starting.

At the very least, I think they should have considered putting at least Cade on here and probably Mobley as well. Heck, Suggs would be helpful with his skill set at this point.

I agree with all of that. There were a bunch of times guys got rebounds and looked scared to put it straight back up and instead kicked it out. I felt a bit embarrassed. USA basketball shouldn't be getting bullied. We looked soft.

I thought abut Zion too. He doesn't have Barkley like meanness to him, but his size with his athleticism would've given us a whole different element we're missing.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Ya the older I get the more I kind of enjoy his pric kly sarcasm.

It’s arrogant sarcasm though. It’s run it’s course.

 

[MikeSU02]

I agree with all of that. There were a bunch of times guys got rebounds and looked scared to put it straight back up and instead kicked it out. I felt a bit embarrassed. USA basketball shouldn't be getting bullied. We looked soft.

I thought abut Zion too. He doesn't have Barkley like meanness to him, but his size with his athleticism would've given us a whole different element we're missing.

Yep, agree. And to your point about Zion, he's at least putting that rebound back up and slamming it home. You can count those two points like the sun rising in the east.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I agree with all of that. There were a bunch of times guys got rebounds and looked scared to put it straight back up and instead kicked it out. I felt a bit embarrassed. USA basketball shouldn't be getting bullied. We looked soft.

I thought abut Zion too. He doesn't have Barkley like meanness to him, but his size with his athleticism would've given us a whole different element we're missing.

Made me think of this.

 

[sufandu]

Yep, agree. And to your point about Zion, he's at least putting that rebound back up and slamming it home. You can count those two points like the sun rising in the east.

Yeah, scoring inside is his whole game, and he won't be intimidated by anyone.

When Jerry Colangelo and Coach K stepped away, did we forget how to construct a roster or do we blame this on the pandemic or NBA disinterest?

 

[Bayside44]

For those who really follow this stuff - what's the difference between FIBA hoops and the current NBA?Minus the goaltending.

The Euros historically "seem" to be more well rounded in skill, but I am admittedly playing on NBA stereotypes of 3s and foul hunting.

 

[Cusefan0307]

For those who really follow this stuff - what's the difference between FIBA hoops and the current NBA?Minus the goaltending.

The Euros historically "seem" to be more well rounded in skill, but I am admittedly playing on NBA stereotypes of 3s and foul hunting.

Zone defense is also legal in FIBA with no defensive 3 seconds. The biggest difference is the physicality. NBA used to be more physical, but now FIBA is. The NBA all but disallowing any contact on perimeter players is hurting us here as the players haven’t adjusted.

 

[MikeSU02]

For those who really follow this stuff - what's the difference between FIBA hoops and the current NBA?Minus the goaltending.

The Euros historically "seem" to be more well rounded in skill, but I am admittedly playing on NBA stereotypes of 3s and foul hunting.

I'd say there is a confluence of a few things, but I'll end with what I think is the biggest issue for us - talent.

Defensive three seconds, knocking the ball off the rim, etc are some fundamental differences, but ones that really shouldn't be debilitating to the USA team (even tho they are not insignificant).

Huge issue is the foul hunting as it pertains to the team we currently have. We have a lot of iso scorers that rely on drawing contact and getting to the FT line to get points. Book, Beal, Tatum are all awesome basketball players, but they aren't exactly 2014 Spurs-esque in their ability to move the ball.

In terms of physical play, I don't think that we are soft, necessarily. Or, at least I should say, the best NBA players aren't soft. But I think the book is out on us that we can be beat by getting physical.

But let's talk talent. Right now, we have zero pass-first PGs on the team. ZERO. Our best passer is Draymond Green who has severe faults in other parts of his game. Our best "big" is Bam Adebayo, who is a fantastic young player, but he is not a bully. As I noted above, Tatum, Beal and Book should be the "next level" guys that should be compliments to KD and Dame like Melo, CP3 and D Wade were to Kobe and Bron in 08. But they aren't as good. Then the way the team is rounded out, just doesn't have a level of talent that is needed or an offensive system that can allow role players to flourish in.

KD and Dame should be taking way, way more heat than they are. If Bron was on this team, ESPN would be doing full day programming on what is wrong with him.

So the world has been catching up to us, but our team is just a mess. Pop wants the ball to move and we don't have the team for it.

Again, I don't really think it's a huge rules thing outside the foul calling stuff. Think about your ideal starting five, right? What does that look like?

Steph
Bron
KD
Kawhi
AD

We have one of those guys.

Right now, this team would be better served if we started Trae Young and Zion, along with KD, Tatum and either Beal or Book.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I'd say there is a confluence of a few things, but I'll end with what I think is the biggest issue for us - talent.

Defensive three seconds, knocking the ball off the rim, etc are some fundamental differences, but ones that really shouldn't be debilitating to the USA team (even tho they are not insignificant).

Huge issue is the foul hunting as it pertains to the team we currently have. We have a lot of iso scorers that rely on drawing contact and getting to the FT line to get points. Book, Beal, Tatum are all awesome basketball players, but they aren't exactly 2014 Spurs-esque in their ability to move the ball.

In terms of physical play, I don't think that we are soft, necessarily. Or, at least I should say, the best NBA players aren't soft. But I think the book is out on us that we can be beat by getting physical.

But let's talk talent. Right now, we have zero pass-first PGs on the team. ZERO. Our best passer is Draymond Green who has severe faults in other parts of his game. Our best "big" is Bam Adebayo, who is a fantastic young player, but he is not a bully. As I noted above, Tatum, Beal and Book should be the "next level" guys that should be compliments to KD and Dame like Melo, CP3 and D Wade were to Kobe and Bron in 08. But they aren't as good. Then the way the team is rounded out, just doesn't have a level of talent that is needed or an offensive system that can allow role players to flourish in.

KD and Dame should be taking way, way more heat than they are. If Bron was on this team, ESPN would be doing full day programming on what is wrong with him.

So the world has been catching up to us, but our team is just a mess. Pop wants the ball to move and we don't have the team for it.

Again, I don't really think it's a huge rules think outside the foul calling stuff. Think about your ideal starting five, right? What does that look like?

Steph
Bron
KD
Kawhi
AD

We have one of those guys.

Right now, this team would be better served if we started Trae Young and Zion, along with KD, Tatum and either Beal or Book.

I mean I totally get what you’re saying, but the guys we have are still All Stars and they(Dame specifically) got dominated by Evan Fournier.

 

[Bayside44]

I'd say there is a confluence of a few things, but I'll end with what I think is the biggest issue for us - talent.

Defensive three seconds, knocking the ball off the rim, etc are some fundamental differences, but ones that really shouldn't be debilitating to the USA team (even tho they are not insignificant).

Huge issue is the foul hunting as it pertains to the team we currently have. We have a lot of iso scorers that rely on drawing contact and getting to the FT line to get points. Book, Beal, Tatum are all awesome basketball players, but they aren't exactly 2014 Spurs-esque in their ability to move the ball.

In terms of physical play, I don't think that we are soft, necessarily. Or, at least I should say, the best NBA players aren't soft. But I think the book is out on us that we can be beat by getting physical.

But let's talk talent. Right now, we have zero pass-first PGs on the team. ZERO. Our best passer is Draymond Green who has severe faults in other parts of his game. Our best "big" is Bam Adebayo, who is a fantastic young player, but he is not a bully. As I noted above, Tatum, Beal and Book should be the "next level" guys that should be compliments to KD and Dame like Melo, CP3 and D Wade were to Kobe and Bron in 08. But they aren't as good. Then the way the team is rounded out, just doesn't have a level of talent that is needed or an offensive system that can allow role players to flourish in.

KD and Dame should be taking way, way more heat than they are. If Bron was on this team, ESPN would be doing full day programming on what is wrong with him.

So the world has been catching up to us, but our team is just a mess. Pop wants the ball to move and we don't have the team for it.

Again, I don't really think it's a huge rules thing outside the foul calling stuff. Think about your ideal starting five, right? What does that look like?

Steph
Bron
KD
Kawhi
AD

We have one of those guys.

Right now, this team would be better served if we started Trae Young and Zion, along with KD, Tatum and either Beal or Book.

Thanks for that.

So if foul hunting is an issue in FIBA, wouldn't Trae Young be the worst guy to have out there? Just asking - in the limited times I've seen him play I've loathed his style.

 

[MikeSU02]

Thanks for that.

So if foul hunting is an issue in FIBA, wouldn't Trae Young be the worst guy to have out there? Just asking - in the limited times I've seen him play I've loathed his style.

If he kept leaning on it, yes. But, the thing about Trae is he can run pick and roll better than almost anyone else in the league (put him in there with harden/luka). It's simple, our guys can run it, he can also hit outside shots, but he can get the floater and if he has a big that can roll with good hands, we could make it a dunk line.

If our guys are all going to continue to foul hunt (which Trae is a major culprit of it), at least let's get a guy that can also run PnR perfectly.

Heck, Luka was griping about no foul calls in his game he scored 48 yesterday. These guys that complain... will complain. But let's get guys that can also do more than iso score.

Just my opinion. I think you can see the awkwardness of our offense trying to move the ball.

 

[Bayside44]

If he kept leaning on it, yes. But, the thing about Trae is he can run pick and roll better than almost anyone else in the league (put him in there with harden/luka). It's simple, our guys can run it, he can also hit outside shots, but he can get the floater and if he has a big that can roll with good hands, we could make it a dunk line.

If our guys are all going to continue to foul hunt (which Trae is a major culprit of it), at least let's get a guy that can also run PnR perfectly.

Heck, Luka was griping about no foul calls in his game he scored 48 yesterday. These guys that complain... will complain. But let's get guys that can also do more than iso score.

Just my opinion. I think you can see the awkwardness of our offense trying to move the ball.

Makes sense, appreciate that.

 

[MikeSU02]

I mean I totally get what you’re saying, but the guys we have are still All Stars and they(Dame specifically) got dominated by Evan Fournier.

Yeah, that's fair.

But when we have talented guys that can't play with ball movement, their value decreases dramatically. Maybe that's on Pop, I dunno. I also think Tatum, Beal and Book have been overrated.

 

[Orangezoo]

If he kept leaning on it, yes. But, the thing about Trae is he can run pick and roll better than almost anyone else in the league (put him in there with harden/luka). It's simple, our guys can run it, he can also hit outside shots, but he can get the floater and if he has a big that can roll with good hands, we could make it a dunk line.

If our guys are all going to continue to foul hunt (which Trae is a major culprit of it), at least let's get a guy that can also run PnR perfectly.

Heck, Luka was griping about no foul calls in his game he scored 48 yesterday. These guys that complain... will complain. But let's get guys that can also do more than iso score.

Just my opinion. I think you can see the awkwardness of our offense trying to move the ball.

Good stuff- the foul hunting is awful like you said. Playing through the contact use to be the norm vs flailing but not today.

Instead of using skill and athleticism to dominate now it's hard to figure what the strategy is anymore.

 

[MikeSU02]

Good stuff- the foul hunting is awful like you said. Playing through the contact use to be the norm vs flailing but not today.

Instead of using skill and athleticism to dominate now it's hard to figure what the strategy is anymore.

Honestly it's why I would love Zion on this team. To see him just bully these guys and shoot like 80% from the field and get most of his buckets from within like 2 feet of the bucket.

 

[Orangezoo]

Honestly it's why I would love Zion on this team. To see him just bully these guys and shoot like 80% from the field and get most of his buckets from within like 2 feet of the bucket.

Yep. If you think about it- Melo was so good because he was that sort of throwback in that he was physical and could score in bunches. As a smaller 4 man he was dominate. Zion is a different player being physical before having all the moves like Melo but same thing he could pile points up in this format.

 

[Orangezoo]

Something else - while the US no doubt dominates in respect to the amount of talent in this sport, there is no ignoring the shift with the top names in the NBA continue to have a different flag next to them.

Giannis, Luka and Joker are names you hear night in night out and all three were MVP candidates. The NBA has some EPL like trends going on a small scale at least.

The transition of more parity in terms of the popularity of different sports will become even more pronounced too.

Thus we need to accelerate putting these elite younger talents like Zion and Trae out there too for the Olympics and FIBA World Champs.

 

[orangefog]

Good stuff- the foul hunting is awful like you said. Playing through the contact use to be the norm vs flailing but not today.

Instead of using skill and athleticism to dominate now it's hard to figure what the strategy is anymore.

We need to revamp the development system. The AAU system creates me first players that don't know how to play team basketball players. They all want to be one-and-done superstars instead of wanting to be winners. Not all, that isn't fair, but USA Basketball should create a development system with the sole purpose of developing winning basketball players.

 

[Cheriehoop]

For those who really follow this stuff - what's the difference between FIBA hoops and the current NBA?Minus the goaltending.

The Euros historically "seem" to be more well rounded in skill, but I am admittedly playing on NBA stereotypes of 3s and foul hunting.

I agree. It would be interesting to see a competition between the Euro teams and NBA teams. Developing innate individual talent is one thing but team development and individual all round skills to improve competitiveness is a separate facet.

 

[two3zone]

We need to revamp the development system. The AAU system creates me first players that don't know how to play team basketball players. They all want to be one-and-done superstars instead of wanting to be winners. Not all, that isn't fair, but USA Basketball should create a development system with the sole purpose of developing winning basketball players.

There have been me first players since the dawn of basketball.

The NBA is a great basketball product, I don’t see why the development of players would need to change.

 

[orangefog]

There have been me first players since the dawn of basketball.

The NBA is a great basketball product, I don’t see why the development of players would need to change.

Me first players have never been glorified like they are now. I like watching some NBA teams play, others are nauseating.