2021 USMNT Thread

Alsacs

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my question for the soccer people.. was this game considered a draw or a win? The semis were 90 min and then to PK so a draw makes sense after 90.. this game was scheduled for 90 plus 30 min then PK.. so extra time was scheduled so wouldnt the draw be if they were tied after 120 min?
If the game goes to PKs to decide a winner then the match is considered a draw in the record books.
If extra time is used then the match isn’t considered a draw if one team ends up with more goals.
 

upperdeck

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If the game goes to PKs to decide a winner then the match is considered a draw in the record books.
If extra time is used then the match isn’t considered a draw if one team ends up with more goals.
which is why I dont think saying it was a draw is correct..
 

Alsacs

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which is why I dont think saying it was a draw is correct..
That match last night shouldn’t have been considered a draw.
If it was that is BS.
Honduras-Costa Rica was a draw that went to PKs.
 

DeGrozz

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which is why I dont think saying it was a draw is correct..

What site do you use? On nearly every gambling site, if you look under their soccer rules the first rule will say that 90 minutes plus injury time is what they determine the pay-out on.

Alsacs is correct on how the official FIFA record books are kept.

Last night's game would be recorded as a win for the USMNT in FIFA's record books and a draw for the vast majority of bookies/gambling sites.
 

NineOneSeven

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Saw the highlights. Looked intense. Wish I watched.
 

jordville

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Feel for Steffen. The dreaded non-contact injury. They were definitely doing the ACL/MCL check. Hope Zach is alright. He showed flashes again last night like that save is the final minutes of the 1st half. Loved that he stuck around and was cheering on his mate, Horvath. Speaking of which.. Ethan made his mark and then some in the US keeper ranks. A performance like that will certainly bode well for EH (ZS injury or not).
 

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What a match! I love European soccer but I can't think of another rivalry in the world that can produce the kind of passion, vitriol and hatred that US v Mexico produces at its peak. Maybe Brazil vs Argentina? But all of those players play on the same club teams together so they aren't going to go after each other the way we saw the two teams go after each other last night.

I've been wondering all along if this version of the USMNT had players who would step up and be counted when the going got tough. Last night showed that there are a LOT of US player who are willing to step up. For the first time that I can remember, we have talent equal to Mexico at a lot of positions, so it was wonderful to see them match the talent with the fight and grit of previous USMNT teams. In fact I think we look better than Mexico going forward, but Mexico has a better midfield. When we look back in 10 years, I think Reyna is going to be the best player of this generation and that's saying a lot because players like Pulisic and McKennie are elite players.

This team is missing a group of midfielders who can bridge the gap between D and O and actually pressure Mexico's midfielders when they had the ball. Mexico could chain passes together in the midfield seemingly at will or pick out passes over the top all day long, while the US didn't have a midfield to speak of. Speaking of midfield, it's amazing to me that Dest played a year at a top 5 club because he was pretty terrible. I hope we don't lose him.
 

SUfanNC

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Dike looks like a big fella. BA looks great and weah and musah look solid as well.
 

IthacaMatt

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This team is missing a group of midfielders who can bridge the gap between D and O and actually pressure Mexico's midfielders when they had the ball. Mexico could chain passes together in the midfield seemingly at will or pick out passes over the top all day long, while the US didn't have a midfield to speak of. Speaking of midfield, it's amazing to me that Dest played a year at a top 5 club because he was pretty terrible. I hope we don't lose him.


We saw a lot of that from Tyler Adams and Yunus Musah against Costa Rica. Our centerbacks are also getting much better at those long diagonal passes, and the through balls up the middle.
 

Geode

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How refreshing is that. Even with the majority of B teamers playing last night there wasn't any doubt about the outcome, scoring seems to be resolving itself, and there is a fire and sense of urgency. Add in solid goalkeeping options and there is a lot to be optimistic about. Hopefully, the defense can achieve some stability and maybe Berhalter will acknowledge that he doesn't need to play it out of the back every single time...
 

OrangeFoo

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We saw a lot of that from Tyler Adams and Yunus Musah against Costa Rica. Our centerbacks are also getting much better at those long diagonal passes, and the through balls up the middle.
Agree on the first part... not so sure about the second. The two CBs + Adams/Lletget formed our very own Bermuda Triangle any time the ball was played back. If I knew where to look for heat charts I would, but I bet they would show that the most frequent passes were amongst the Bermuda Triangle or back to the goalie. If the other team is going to clog up the middle on us, I have no idea why Berhalter doesn't pin his winger/FBs to the touchlines a head of the backline to create some diagonal passes. It was brutal to watch our offense for long stretches of the match last night, at least in the first half. I really do wonder what would have happened if Costa Rica actually tried to pressure the Bermuda Triangle? To Berhalter's credit, in the second half Musah started dropping deeper to pick up the ball and we didn't see the Bermuda Triangle nearly as often.

I hate to rag on Berhalter... actually who am I kidding I love to hate on Berhalter. But I'd love to hear the excuse for not playing Musah or Dike in the previous two matches. Are Sargent and that kid who plays in the Swiss league that much better than Dike? Are Yuell and Acosta that much better than Musah? I get that Dike wasn't on the roster... but that's because Berhalter didn't name him to the roster. I get that coaches have scared cows, but what has anyone on this roster, outside of Pulisic, McKennie and Reyna, done to earn scared cow status? I'm so tired of US soccer coaches who want prioritize giving time to players like Yuell and Acosta, who are clearly triple aaa players at the international level over players like Musah and Dike who seem to have the potential to be big leaguers. That dynamic is exactly why US soccer lost an entire generation of talent... no coach was really willing to give younger talent a shot.

Anyways... it was a great week or so for US soccer. The future is bright, we have talent all over the place, but I'm still not convinced we have the manager with the right tactics to maximize the talent.
 

IthacaMatt

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Agree on the first part... not so sure about the second. The two CBs + Adams/Lletget formed our very own Bermuda Triangle any time the ball was played back. If I knew where to look for heat charts I would, but I bet they would show that the most frequent passes were amongst the Bermuda Triangle or back to the goalie. If the other team is going to clog up the middle on us, I have no idea why Berhalter doesn't pin his winger/FBs to the touchlines a head of the backline to create some diagonal passes. It was brutal to watch our offense for long stretches of the match last night, at least in the first half. I really do wonder what would have happened if Costa Rica actually tried to pressure the Bermuda Triangle? To Berhalter's credit, in the second half Musah started dropping deeper to pick up the ball and we didn't see the Bermuda Triangle nearly as often.

I hate to rag on Berhalter... actually who am I kidding I love to hate on Berhalter. But I'd love to hear the excuse for not playing Musah or Dike in the previous two matches. Are Sargent and that kid who plays in the Swiss league that much better than Dike? Are Yuell and Acosta that much better than Musah? I get that Dike wasn't on the roster... but that's because Berhalter didn't name him to the roster. I get that coaches have scared cows, but what has anyone on this roster, outside of Pulisic, McKennie and Reyna, done to earn scared cow status? I'm so tired of US soccer coaches who want prioritize giving time to players like Yuell and Acosta, who are clearly triple aaa players at the international level over players like Musah and Dike who seem to have the potential to be big leaguers. That dynamic is exactly why US soccer lost an entire generation of talent... no coach was really willing to give younger talent a shot.

Anyways... it was a great week or so for US soccer. The future is bright, we have talent all over the place, but I'm still not convinced we have the manager with the right tactics to maximize the talent.


We were ahead by 2 goals, then 3, then 4. They were managing the game, I thought. I thought Adams was very impressive, very composed. Ream was a little shaky a few times, but we were playing only 2 at the back, not 3 like we will probably do with better opponents.

In terms of the forward passing by the center backs, John Brooks was very good in his appearances, and I thought against Costa Rica, Mark McKenzie did a lot to rehabilitate his image after that early mistake against Mexico with a handful of terrific through balls, or attempts at through balls, up the gut of the Costa Rica defense.

I completely agree that he should have given Musah and Dike run outs vs. Honduras. He said Musah wan't quite in match shape because he didn't play much down the stretch for Valencia, so you couldn't just throw him on vs. Mexico. He had a week in the squad to get some fitness before playing last night.

Dike lacked instinct on that one great set up that he incredibly just let run past him from about 8 yards out, but otherwise, he looked great. He's certainly ahead of where Jozy Altidore used to be, back when he was a young center. This guy is better than Sargeant.

Not sure if he is a starter, or best used as an impact sub, a la Olivier Giroud or Chicarito, back in his hey day. Tim Weah showed off his skills, but didn't connect with the other players as well as I hoped. He's surprisingly big, and did some very good things vs. Costa Rica, too.
 

upperdeck

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the fact that we had like 3 goals scored by kids 21 or younger was pretty cool to see.

In listening to the chatter it also seems like while the goal is to win its also to really understand how much you can count on some of the players.. You cant decide if Sargeant is really the answer at that spot without quality time there.. He has a high work rate that while he isnt leading to offense all the time he is really pushing it on the D making the other team work harder. the pass to Dike he let slide through really looked like he let it go, maybe it was yelled for? or he just lost the angle of the other player on the ball.. too bad that should have led to a goal

not sure whats Aronson? rule is bad every game he seems to make stuff happen.. that one play down low were he worked thru 3-4 people to create a dangerous spot was nice to see from our team for a change.

We can go forward now. we connect much better, but the back end D still opens up way to often.
 

IthacaMatt

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the fact that we had like 3 goals scored by kids 21 or younger was pretty cool to see.

In listening to the chatter it also seems like while the goal is to win its also to really understand how much you can count on some of the players.. You cant decide if Sargeant is really the answer at that spot without quality time there.. He has a high work rate that while he isnt leading to offense all the time he is really pushing it on the D making the other team work harder. the pass to Dike he let slide through really looked like he let it go, maybe it was yelled for? or he just lost the angle of the other player on the ball.. too bad that should have led to a goal

not sure whats Aronson? rule is bad every game he seems to make stuff happen.. that one play down low were he worked thru 3-4 people to create a dangerous spot was nice to see from our team for a change.

We can go forward now. we connect much better, but the back end D still opens up way to often.


Good observations! The fact that we don't just have young guys, but that they can be the foundation to beat Mexico in a dirty, tough fought game. That was huge.

Sargent is kind of like Timo Werner of Chelsea, only not so many bad misses. He works hard, he presses, he runs for balls and to create space for others - but the end product is just not there.

Tim Weah is an interesting prospect. He's kind of like the USMNT's version (again with a Chelsea comparison) of Kai Havertz - undeniable talent, smooth on the ball, composed, nice footwork in tight spaces. But he hasn't blossomed yet. Is Weah a False Nine for this team? Is Havertz a False Nine for Chelsea? Kind of a similar look to me.

Aronson seems like a firecracker. Lots of young talent on this team!

And yes, "violent agreement" that the defense has to be better. I had "asked" for 3 in the back, and he did that versus Mexico, and but for the early mistake by Mark McKenzie, I thought they did pretty well, and battled pretty well.

We aren't solid with 4 in the back unless it's Brooks with either one of the experienced MLS guys (Long or Zimmerman - I know about the ACL injury, so maybe in a year for Long ...). Anyway, we need one of those guys to take charge back there with him, or else one of the promising young guys matures in the next year (Richards, Palmer-Brown or Carter-Vickers?).

Dest has to be more consistent defensively, too. He can't be a luxury player out there who only plays offense. He did that the first game, but the last couple he applied himself much more on defense. I think the message got through.
 
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OrangeFoo

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Good observations! The fact that we don't just have young guys, but that they can be the foundation to beat Mexico in a dirty, tough fought game. That was huge.

Sargent is kind of like Timo Werner of Chelsea, only not so many bad misses. He works hard, he presses, he runs for balls and to create space for others - but the end product is just not there.

Tim Weah is an interesting prospect. He's kind of like the USMNT's version (again with a Chelsea comparison) of Kai Havertz - undeniable talent, smooth on the ball, composed, nice footwork in tight spaces. But he hasn't blossomed yet. Is Weah a False Nine for this team? Is Havertz a False Nine for Chelsea? Kind of a similar look to me.

Aronson seems like a firecracker. Lots of young talent on this team!

And yes, "violent agreement" that the defense has to be better. I had "asked" for 3 in the back, and he did that versus Mexico, and but for the early mistake by Mark McKenzie, I thought they did pretty well, and battled pretty well.

We aren't solid with 4 in the back unless it's Brooks with either one of the experienced MLS guys (Long or Zimmerman - I know about the ACL injury, so maybe in a year for Long ...). Anyway, we need one of those guys to take charge back there with him, or else one of the promising young guys matures in the next year (Richards, Palmer-Brown or Carter-Vickers?).

Dest has to be more consistent defensively, too. He can't be a luxury player out there who only plays offense. He did that the first game, but the last couple he applied himself much more on defense. I think the message got through.
Agree on Sargent and Weah... I think leaving Weah on the winger leaves him isolated and he doesn't see enough of the ball. But I do think the risk if you make him the false 9 is that he gives up the ball pretty easily and the other team has a breakaway down the middle of the field.

Our defensive strategy makes no sense to me. If you are going with a back three, I'm not sure how it makes sense to have two dudes as slow as Brooks and Ream back there. Typically the goal of the back three is to enable wingers to have the freedom to bomb up the field... but if you are going to do that you need two midfielders who are willing to do the dirty work and shield the back 3. Against Mexico we got completely outnumbered in the midfield and we somehow had no wingers who could act as an outlet so I'm not sure what a back three does for us? I think a 4-3-3 with Weston, Adams, Musah and Pulisic, Dike, Reyna is the most promising lineup.

Dest is interesting... he reminds me of the German kid who we had at RB that Klinsy recruited. He looked great for one or two games and was a really good budesliga player, but kind of sucked afterwards for the USMNT and then eventually disappeared off the radar. He never really brought his A game to the Nats. I'm hoping Dest doesn't go this route.
 

IthacaMatt

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Agree on Sargent and Weah... I think leaving Weah on the winger leaves him isolated and he doesn't see enough of the ball. But I do think the risk if you make him the false 9 is that he gives up the ball pretty easily and the other team has a breakaway down the middle of the field.

Our defensive strategy makes no sense to me. If you are going with a back three, I'm not sure how it makes sense to have two dudes as slow as Brooks and Ream back there. Typically the goal of the back three is to enable wingers to have the freedom to bomb up the field... but if you are going to do that you need two midfielders who are willing to do the dirty work and shield the back 3. Against Mexico we got completely outnumbered in the midfield and we somehow had no wingers who could act as an outlet so I'm not sure what a back three does for us? I think a 4-3-3 with Weston, Adams, Musah and Pulisic, Dike, Reyna is the most promising lineup.

Dest is interesting... he reminds me of the German kid who we had at RB that Klinsy recruited. He looked great for one or two games and was a really good budesliga player, but kind of sucked afterwards for the USMNT and then eventually disappeared off the radar. He never really brought his A game to the Nats. I'm hoping Dest doesn't go this route.

Good point about Weah. He dribbles into a lot of dead ends.

Brooks is good in the middle of a back 3 because he's protected by both the side CBs out more on the wings, where Brooks was exposed. Brooks is strong in the air, strong in the challenge, pretty composed on the ball, and is the best passer of our center backs, in my opinion.

Brooks is our David Luiz - not to be trusted defensively in a back 4 against top sides, but very useful in a back 3 with wingbacks and Tyler Adams for protection.

Speaking of Tyler Adams, he can be our guy who dictates the pace of play from back there in the midfield. He looked very composed on the ball to me, and as recently as a couple years ago, we didn't have very many of those. Now - abundance of on-ball skill among our wingers and midfielders!

As for Dest, I think this young group is pretty excited to be finally playing together. There's room for a lot of them to become stars, and to help their professional careers. This is a hell of a group, at a young age, like Belgium was about 5-7 years ago.

Maybe peer pressure and enjoyment of our success keeps him engaged. Under Klinsman, he was trying to recruit those German dual-citizens very hard, but wasn't always getting buy-in and commitment from guys like Fabian Johnson, Timmy Chandler and a few other guys from that era. Because, let's face it, we weren't as good back then as the talent appears on the current roster.

Kids want to join this team. Chelsea has a similar recruiting advantage right now, loading up on young elite European players. Leicester, too, and even Man City - lots of great young talent is being stockpiled in the Premier League for next season.
 
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Orangezoo

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Agree on Sargent and Weah... I think leaving Weah on the winger leaves him isolated and he doesn't see enough of the ball. But I do think the risk if you make him the false 9 is that he gives up the ball pretty easily and the other team has a breakaway down the middle of the field.

Our defensive strategy makes no sense to me. If you are going with a back three, I'm not sure how it makes sense to have two dudes as slow as Brooks and Ream back there. Typically the goal of the back three is to enable wingers to have the freedom to bomb up the field... but if you are going to do that you need two midfielders who are willing to do the dirty work and shield the back 3. Against Mexico we got completely outnumbered in the midfield and we somehow had no wingers who could act as an outlet so I'm not sure what a back three does for us? I think a 4-3-3 with Weston, Adams, Musah and Pulisic, Dike, Reyna is the most promising lineup.

Dest is interesting... he reminds me of the German kid who we had at RB that Klinsy recruited. He looked great for one or two games and was a really good budesliga player, but kind of sucked afterwards for the USMNT and then eventually disappeared off the radar. He never really brought his A game to the Nats. I'm hoping Dest doesn't go this route.

Some good points. I think the issue with Dest
similar to Fabian Johnson is that he plays the wing back role more than a traditional outside FB. He brings major pace and offensive skills to the table but with the midfield we have I'm not sure that is what we need. If we are consistently putting 2 or 3 chances in the back of the net, sure but if we aren't finishing it's a definite risk.

With that said, as young as this group is and with limited time as a complete unit some of the concerns I think can be chalked up to that alone.
 

OrangeFoo

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Get him on the Gold Cup roster and cap tie him. Ball is in Berhalter's court. It's annoying that he didn't cap time Musah who is a clearly superior player to at least Yuiell.

Who was that American kid from Jersey who ended up choosing the Italian team and made a few starts in friendlies but then got his career wrecked by injuries? Hopefully that's a lesson for these kids...
 

OrangeFoo

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Some good points. I think the issue with Dest
similar to Fabian Johnson is that he plays the wing back role more than a traditional outside FB. He brings major pace and offensive skills to the table but with the midfield we have I'm not sure that is what we need. If we are consistently putting 2 or 3 chances in the back of the net, sure but if we aren't finishing it's a definite risk.

With that said, as young as this group is and with limited time as a complete unit some of the concerns I think can be chalked up to that alone.
Yep... Dest might be a vanity player who would thrive if we had a Kante on this team. But we don't, so Dest needs to do dirty work or we can't afford to play him, or if we do he needs to do more on offense to compensate for the lack of D. Unfortunately against good teams, I don't think he will see enough of the ball to make a difference attacking.
 

creatorsgame

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Get him on the Gold Cup roster and cap tie him. Ball is in Berhalter's court. It's annoying that he didn't cap time Musah who is a clearly superior player to at least Yuiell.

Who was that American kid from Jersey who ended up choosing the Italian team and made a few starts in friendlies but then got his career wrecked by injuries? Hopefully that's a lesson for these kids...
I’m almost sure he will be on the Gold Cup roster.

The player from Jersey you are thinking of is Giuseppe Rossi.
 

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