2023 NY Mets thread | Page 25 | Syracusefan.com

2023 NY Mets thread

SWC75 said:
Vogelbach hit his first home run since April 17th.

I'm getting to like Tommy Pham. He's hitting .342 since May 28th. Buck says he's playing with something close to anger. Maybe his teammates will start to do the same.

theathletic.com

Tommy Pham motivated by Mets’ analytics department: ‘He’s got a little edge to him’

Pham learned that the Mets' analytics staff determined that he couldn't hit righties. He's created a compelling case that he can ever since.
theathletic.com theathletic.com
Expand...

I only channel surf the Mets, having started the season with big expectations, to keep up conversation with a Mets fan friend of mine. But Vogelbach - what's the deal there? Is the reason he still plays is because he reminds Showalter of Chris Farley??
 
IthacaMatt said:
I only channel surf the Mets, having started the season with big expectations, to keep up conversation with a Mets fan friend of mine. But Vogelbach - what's the deal there? Is the reason he still plays is because he reminds Showalter of Chris Farley??
Expand...

He walks a lot, hit 30 homers once and is a veteran player with a 70 year old coach.
 
My take on the Mets 2023 draft after 2 days….

The Mets had 13 picks in the first 10 rounds. They got 2 extras in the fourth round for losing free agents and a second in the third round because they didn’t sign one of their draft choices last year. That player who didn’t sign was Brandon Sprout, who was drafted again by the Mets this time around (and will sign with them this time; more on that later).

The Mets being the Mets, they did some unusual things, drafting 4th year college players with 10 of their 13 picks.

They did something similar a few years ago when they drafted unsignable Matt Allan in the third round (and paid him so much that he did sign with them).

The problem with that strategy is that every team is given a budget by MLB limiting how much money can be spent signing players in a given draft. You can exceed it but the penalties are very high and this is rarely done. So when the Mets drafted Allan, they paid him like a player drafted in the top 10 in the first round, and to do that and stay on budget for the draft, they focused on filling out that draft with 4th year college seniors.

You draft 4th year college seniors if you have limited money available because this is their last go around in the draft and they have no leverage. These guys are routinely signed for less than slot value.

Anyway, it is easy to understand why they drafted so many 4th year seniors the year they drafted Allan. Why did they do it again this year?

Money.

A year ago, the Mets had about $13 million available to sign players from the 2022 draft. They only had $8 million his year. Why?

Mostly because the Mets payroll is so large. I think it is partly because the Mets did well last season. The Pirates have the biggest budget to sign players this draft. Their budget is $16 million. About twice what the Mets have to work with.

I think the Mets are expected to pay Houck well over slot value as well. He is a HS senior with a college scholarship and if he doesn’t get significantly overpaid, he can and will tell the Mets to pound salt.

Sproat had leverage last year. He had a year of eligibility left. The Mets offer wasn’t amazing and he had the option of coming back to Florida so he chose not to sign. The time around, he will take what he is offered.

Anyway, the penalties for exceeding max payroll levels are severe and have a major impact on building a roster, as we saw last winter. And they have a major impact on drafting players as well.

You can’t run long term with a payroll as big as the Mets have. This draft is a good lesson reminding the team they have to cull payroll and bring in more affordable young players to build a sustainable powerhouse baseball franchise.

IMG_0019.jpeg
 
sutomcat said:
My take on the Mets 2023 draft after 2 days….

The Mets had 13 picks in the first 10 rounds. They got 2 extras in the fourth round for losing free agents and a second in the third round because they didn’t sign one of their draft choices last year. That player who didn’t sign was Brandon Sprout, who was drafted again by the Mets this time around (and will sign with them this time; more on that later).

The Mets being the Mets, they did some unusual things, drafting 4th year college players with 10 of their 13 picks.

They did something similar a few years ago when they drafted unsignable Matt Allan in the third round (and paid him so much that he did sign with them).

The problem with that strategy is that every team is given a budget by MLB limiting how much money can be spent signing players in a given draft. You can exceed it but the penalties are very high and this is rarely done. So when the Mets drafted Allan, they paid him like a player drafted in the top 10 in the first round, and to do that and stay on budget for the draft, they focused on filling out that draft with 4th year college seniors.

You draft 4th year college seniors if you have limited money available because this is their last go around in the draft and they have no leverage. These guys are routinely signed for less than slot value.

Anyway, it is easy to understand why they drafted so many 4th year seniors the year they drafted Allan. Why did they do it again this year?

Money.

A year ago, the Mets had about $13 million available to sign players from the 2022 draft. They only had $8 million his year. Why?

Mostly because the Mets payroll is so large. I think it is partly because the Mets did well last season. The Pirates have the biggest budget to sign players this draft. Their budget is $16 million. About twice what the Mets have to work with.

I think the Mets are expected to pay Houck well over slot value as well. He is a HS senior with a college scholarship and if he doesn’t get significantly overpaid, he can and will tell the Mets to pound salt.

Sproat had leverage last year. He had a year of eligibility left. The Mets offer wasn’t amazing and he had the option of coming back to Florida so he chose not to sign. The time around, he will take what he is offered.

Anyway, the penalties for exceeding max payroll levels are severe and have a major impact on building a roster, as we saw last winter. And they have a major impact on drafting players as well.

You can’t run long term with a payroll as big as the Mets have. This draft is a good lesson reminding the team they have to cull payroll and bring in more affordable young players to build a sustainable powerhouse baseball franchise.

View attachment 229217
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7 pitchers, (depending on what a 'TWP' is). One left-hander.
 
Poor Pete. Going up against the hometown guy in round 1 and getting booed. Rodriguez is on another level in these Derby’s. Pete wouldn’t have beat him either way but wish he had gone first. Feel like he does better when he’s not chasing a number.
 
ScrabbCuse said:
Poor Pete. Going up against the hometown guy in round 1 and getting booed. Rodriguez is on another level in these Derby’s. Pete wouldn’t have beat him either way but wish he had gone first. Feel like he does better when he’s not chasing a number.
Expand...

Also, JRod's pitcher put the ball right where he wanted it and Pete's guy was all over the place. They should use machines.

I was looking to see if Pete improved his swing from the mess it was in San Diego. He seemed more straightened, waiting for the ball to come to him. Unfortunately, half the time it didn't.
 
sutomcat said:
My take on the Mets 2023 draft after 2 days….

The Mets had 13 picks in the first 10 rounds. They got 2 extras in the fourth round for losing free agents and a second in the third round because they didn’t sign one of their draft choices last year. That player who didn’t sign was Brandon Sprout, who was drafted again by the Mets this time around (and will sign with them this time; more on that later).

The Mets being the Mets, they did some unusual things, drafting 4th year college players with 10 of their 13 picks.

They did something similar a few years ago when they drafted unsignable Matt Allan in the third round (and paid him so much that he did sign with them).

The problem with that strategy is that every team is given a budget by MLB limiting how much money can be spent signing players in a given draft. You can exceed it but the penalties are very high and this is rarely done. So when the Mets drafted Allan, they paid him like a player drafted in the top 10 in the first round, and to do that and stay on budget for the draft, they focused on filling out that draft with 4th year college seniors.

You draft 4th year college seniors if you have limited money available because this is their last go around in the draft and they have no leverage. These guys are routinely signed for less than slot value.

Anyway, it is easy to understand why they drafted so many 4th year seniors the year they drafted Allan. Why did they do it again this year?

Money.

A year ago, the Mets had about $13 million available to sign players from the 2022 draft. They only had $8 million his year. Why?

Mostly because the Mets payroll is so large. I think it is partly because the Mets did well last season. The Pirates have the biggest budget to sign players this draft. Their budget is $16 million. About twice what the Mets have to work with.

I think the Mets are expected to pay Houck well over slot value as well. He is a HS senior with a college scholarship and if he doesn’t get significantly overpaid, he can and will tell the Mets to pound salt.

Sproat had leverage last year. He had a year of eligibility left. The Mets offer wasn’t amazing and he had the option of coming back to Florida so he chose not to sign. The time around, he will take what he is offered.

Anyway, the penalties for exceeding max payroll levels are severe and have a major impact on building a roster, as we saw last winter. And they have a major impact on drafting players as well.

You can’t run long term with a payroll as big as the Mets have. This draft is a good lesson reminding the team they have to cull payroll and bring in more affordable young players to build a sustainable powerhouse baseball franchise.

View attachment 229217
Expand...
Agree with everything. One of the penalties off over spending is you lose 10 slots on your selection depending one how much you over spend buy. For example, say you have the 5th and 35th pick in a year with no overspend. You over spend two thresholds, you now have the the 15th and and 45th picks. Not sure if this penalty applies to first round pics.
 
Lord Ashby said:
Agree with everything. One of the penalties off over spending is you lose 10 slots on your selection depending one how much you over spend buy. For example, say you have the 5th and 35th pick in a year with no overspend. You over spend two thresholds, you now have the the 15th and and 45th picks. Not sure if this penalty applies to first round pics.
Expand...
It does apply to the first round... the Mets first round pick was in fact dropped 10 spots.

The Mets took a huge risk on roster building this year and basically every risk backfired in their face. I'd love to say you win some and you lose some... but w/o Cohen's megabucks this would set the franchise back 5 years. I don't see a way out of this either this season or next unless Cohen I willing to hold a fire sale where he pays all of the salaries.
 
Taking a flyer on a Tiger:

MSN

"In 19 appearances with eight starts in 2023, Little finished with a 2-2 record and a 7.79 earned run average. He struck out 42 batters on the year, but he also issued 29 walks."
 
Four innings into the second half of the season, Verlander is pitching a no-hitter and I'm thinking a no-no would be a great way to start the second half of the season...

So Verlander gives up 3 runs in the 5th and gets pulled. Three of four Mets relievers give up runs and we lose 0-6. The Mets got only a single hit in this game and had three base runners, (one walk and an error, which was catcher's interference). Pete went 0 for 3 and is now batting .208.
 
SWC75 said:
Four innings into the second half of the season, Verlander is pitching a no-hitter and I'm thinking a no-no would be a great way to start the second half of the season...

So Verlander gives up 3 runs in the 5th and gets pulled. Three of four Mets relievers give up runs and we lose 0-6. The Mets got only a single hit in this game and had three base runners, (one walk and an error, which was catcher's interference). Pete went 0 for 3 and is now batting .208.
Expand...
I fortunately could not watch because it was shown on Apple TV. Nimmo opened the game with a drive they hit the top of fence that was initially called a home run.

The impact got it wrong and it was changed to a ground rule double. Buck had Pham hitting second and he of course failed to advance the runner. That was it. No hits the rest of the game.

I believe Verlander walked the bases loaded I. That fateful fifth inning. Completely lost control of the strike zone. All those runners scored and that was the ball game.

Initial hope and then incompetence. It was a another very Met-like loss.

Peterson was used as a reliever. That tells me they are not going to go to a six man rotation.

Quintana has been consistently bombed in his minor league rehab starts but they are going to give him a start Wednesday.

Brace for impact.
 
OrangeFoo said:
This kid is in high school though... who knows what he turns out to be in the future. If nothing else than trade bait?

Given all of the 7 to 10 year contracts we are seeing handed out these days across baseball, I'm really curious how this will impact player development. FWIW I think the Cubs also drafted a SS even though they have Swanson locked in for 7 years.
Expand...
The big money guys become short term rentals in a trade if your kid really develops and you see him as the future. If he’s pretty good, but won’t be “the guy”, he’s trade fodder for a pennant run.
I use the Orioles’ Jackson Holliday as an example. There was a ridiculous trade floated about how the White Sox should offer 4 players, including 2 starting pitchers, for him, to start a rebuild.

As a lifetime fan, I hope the Orioles forego trading for a big name starter if it costs them any of their top 15 offensive prospects. Win with offense, defense, and bullpen and develop your own starters.
 
sutomcat said:
I fortunately could not watch because it was shown on Apple TV. Nimmo opened the game with a drive they hit the top of fence that was initially called a home run.

The impact got it wrong and it was changed to a ground rule double. Buck had Pham hitting second and he of course failed to advance the runner. That was it. No hits the rest of the game.

I believe Verlander walked the bases loaded I. That fateful fifth inning. Completely lost control of the strike zone. All those runners scored and that was the ball game.

Initial hope and then incompetence. It was a another very Met-like loss.

Peterson was used as a reliever. That tells me they are not going to go to a six man rotation.

Quintana has been consistently bombed in his minor league rehab starts but they are going to give him a start Wednesday.

Brace for impact.
Expand...
So basically they are making Cohen’s decision about whether to sell very easy.
 
Capt. Tuttle said:
The big money guys become short term rentals in a trade if your kid really develops and you see him as the future. If he’s pretty good, but won’t be “the guy”, he’s trade fodder for a pennant run.
I use the Orioles’ Jackson Holliday as an example. There was a ridiculous trade floated about how the White Sox should offer 4 players, including 2 starting pitchers, for him, to start a rebuild.

As a lifetime fan, I hope the Orioles forego trading for a big name starter if it costs them any of their top 15 offensive prospects. Win with offense, defense, and bullpen and develop your own starters.
Expand...
Baseball seems, more so than any other sport, a numbers game. If you have a guy who consistently can get you +war performance you keep them until you project the numbers start to drop. If you don’t have a guy who can give you +war you try as many players as possible until you can find one. For pitchers, the math is even more skewed towards numbers because of how often they get hurt. I’ve never seen a sport like baseball where a player performance can drop off a table so quickly with very little warning sign.

If the Os think Holliday will give them a decade of +war then they should think really really hard about trading him because odds are maybe 1 of the players they get back reaches that level of performance.
 
sutomcat said:
I fortunately could not watch because it was shown on Apple TV. Nimmo opened the game with a drive they hit the top of fence that was initially called a home run.

The impact got it wrong and it was changed to a ground rule double. Buck had Pham hitting second and he of course failed to advance the runner. That was it. No hits the rest of the game.

I believe Verlander walked the bases loaded I. That fateful fifth inning. Completely lost control of the strike zone. All those runners scored and that was the ball game.

Initial hope and then incompetence. It was a another very Met-like loss.

Peterson was used as a reliever. That tells me they are not going to go to a six man rotation.

Quintana has been consistently bombed in his minor league rehab starts but they are going to give him a start Wednesday.

Brace for impact.
Expand...

I don't have Apple TV either and am glad I missed this one. (I could go to my other habit of watching old movies instead.) I just read the box score and play-by-play. Actually, we haven't had much initial hope this year. It's usually 0-3 after the first tinning.

I did check game cast for one at bat by Alonso: called strike, foul ball and a pop up. Same old same old. Through the first 21 games this year, the Mets were 14-7 and Pete was hitting .293 with 10 home runs, 11 walks and 20 strike outs. Since then, the Mets are 28-42 and in the 6 games Pete's played in, he is 40 for 225, (I repeat: 40 for 225), a batting average of .178. He's hit 16 home runs, (162/62 = 42, so that's pretty good). He's walked 23 times and struck out 55 times. Pete hit consecutive homes runs in games played June 4 and June 6. He's hit 4 home runs in the 22 games since, (162/22 X 4 = 29). He's had 7 other hits in those games for a batting average of .164. He's turned himself into Joey Gallo.
 
It is hard to be a Met fan too often.

Haven’t seen the team play since Sunday. That was the last fam before the all star break. It looked like the Mets had turned a corner; they won 5 in a row but killed all their momentum with 2 straight losses to the Padres before the break.

I thought the break was 3 days. Believe it has been a 3 day break for many years. But Thursday came and no mlb games were scheduled.

Fine, I guess I can wait to watch the Mets on Friday. But wait, the Mets are playing in Apple TV, so I can’t watch the game.

Fine, I guess I can wait until Saturday.

Wait, they don’t play in the afternoon. Gotta wait until 7 pm.

Can’t find the game on SNY. Not on WPIX (channel 7 in CNY spectrum). Wait it is on Fox. Okay, turn in.

No Mets. The hated Braves are playing. What the hell? There is a weather delay?

Am I ever going to see the Mets play again? More importantly, do I really want to see the Mets play again? They have not been playing well….
 

"He kept it very professional,” Lindor said of Cohen. “He kept it real. When you are educated in a subject, you are going to be in tune with what is happening. I respected it, I thought it was a great press conference. He’s right, we have got to play better. Front offices can put the best team together on paper, but if us the players don’t execute and don’t do the job, it’s not the best team.”
 
Honk if you thought we were going to win that one.
 
sutomcat said:
It is hard to be a Met fan too often.

Haven’t seen the team play since Sunday. That was the last fam before the all star break. It looked like the Mets had turned a corner; they won 5 in a row but killed all their momentum with 2 straight losses to the Padres before the break.

I thought the break was 3 days. Believe it has been a 3 day break for many years. But Thursday came and no mlb games were scheduled.

Fine, I guess I can wait to watch the Mets on Friday. But wait, the Mets are playing in Apple TV, so I can’t watch the game.

Fine, I guess I can wait until Saturday.

Wait, they don’t play in the afternoon. Gotta wait until 7 pm.

Can’t find the game on SNY. Not on WPIX (channel 7 in CNY spectrum). Wait it is on Fox. Okay, turn in.

No Mets. The hated Braves are playing. What the hell? There is a weather delay?

Am I ever going to see the Mets play again? More importantly, do I really want to see the Mets play again? They have not been playing well….
Expand...
Based on the way the game ended, the answer would seem to be no you don’t want to see the Mets play again.
 
At this point we have to be doing some selling now I gotta figure. Poor finish before the break and ugly start after. 9 games back and unlikely a couple of buys are going to be worth it to turn it around.
 
I knew it would help if I took a nap. I just wish Max had gotten the win. He looked like the Max of old. Our Robertson beat theirs, (no relation.)

Where's the Pete of old? Two ground balls to third, a foul out and a strikeout. .207BA
 
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