A simple poll for the gang

[br801]

Tough call, but I'll say retain.

But I do know for sure I don't want RF2044 coming after me.

 

[storange]

I want to see where everyone stands on HCSS.

The poll is simple you only get to answer Stay or Go. No qualifiers like if he wins the next two games, or if he replaces members on the staff or if we get this particular coach. None of that. Just a simple answer.

Post Retain if you want HCSS to stay.

Post Fire if you want him to be replaced.

retain

 

[RF2044]

Tough call, but I'll say retain.

But I do know for sure I don't want RF2044 coming after me.

It really IS a tough call. I think Shafer is just about best case scenario off the field for our program. I like what they're doing on the recruiting trail, I like the skilled players they are beginning to bring in, I like the pitch they're making to parents, the academic focus, etc.

But on game day, on the field... another story. And unfortunately, that's the criteria that he's evaluated most against--and rightly so. Nothing would please me more than to have Shafer succeed. That would be ideal for us as fans. But my fear when we hired him was that while he was a fine coordinator, it was unknown whether he had the chops to be head coach. I was very much against the lack of due diligence it seemed like we didn't do when it came to hiring him, instead of conducting a more thorough, national search. I was at the PSU / Northwestern games three years ago, and was sickened by what I saw on both sides of the ball.

Then, the coaching staff righted the ship. The defense got a lot better. We won all of our 50/50 games except one--which had not been true in more than a decade. Got to a bowl game and won against a Minnesota team that had trounced us the year before [despite the final score]. And it seemed as though the staff--while clearly going through some growing pains--seemed to be up to the task.

Last year started off on the wrong foot with that awful Villanova near miss. The injuries we sustained at both QB and OL were absurd to the point that it seemed like we couldn't fairly evaluate the staff based upon how many players we were down. We had a wildly unusual loss against Maryland, with unbelievable statistical anomalies. And we had a historically bad year offensively. So I felt like this year was the proving ground for Shafer and staff.

What happened at the beginning of the year? The execution seemed exponentially better. The QB was cause for optimism. And while Dungey missed nearly half of the first several games, we seemed to be trending in the right direction. But unfortunately, it has been all downhill. Losing at UVa was a debacle. Not capitalizing against Pitt was another huge blow. Those two games were season changing gut punches. And combined with what happened against FSU and Louisville, I think it cements Shafer's fate.

I'd love to see us win the next two. And I would love it if Shafer had used this season's "proving ground" to erase doubts about his coaching acumen. But I don't think that he has, and I think we need to upgrade at HC. I understand that there are numerous reasons why he might be retained for another year, not the least of which involve million dollar contractual implications. If he stays, then I'll root just as hard for him and the team next year. But personally speaking, I've seen enough to come to the conclusion that Shafer isn't good enough for this challenge. That is hardly the torches and pitchfork knee jerk reaction foolishly alluded to in the post above.

 

[omg_cuse_rules]

Retain

bad time to hire someone else right now anyway. Give him his last year with dignity, and if he turns it around its icing.

Was really a tough call though.

 

[CuseOnly]

 

[orangenirvana]

I had no idea so many Syracuse fans are just fine and dandy with 3 win seasons and offensive rankings in the 100's. Sad.

 

[br801]

It really IS a tough call. I think Shafer is just about best case scenario off the field for our program. I like what they're doing on the recruiting trail, I like the skilled players they are beginning to bring in, I like the pitch they're making to parents, the academic focus, etc.

But on game day, on the field... another story. And unfortunately, that's the criteria that he's evaluated most against--and rightly so. Nothing would please me more than to have Shafer succeed. That would be ideal for us as fans. But my fear when we hired him was that while he was a fine coordinator, it was unknown whether he had the chops to be head coach. I was very much against the lack of due diligence it seemed like we didn't do when it came to hiring him, instead of conducting a more thorough, national search. I was at the PSU / Northwestern games three years ago, and was sickened by what I saw on both sides of the ball.

Then, the coaching staff righted the ship. The defense got a lot better. We won all of our 50/50 games except one--which had not been true in more than a decade. Got to a bowl game and won against a Minnesota team that had trounced us the year before [despite the final score]. And it seemed as though the staff--while clearly going through some growing pains--seemed to be up to the task.

Last year started off on the wrong foot with that awful Villanova near miss. The injuries we sustained at both QB and OL were absurd to the point that it seemed like we couldn't fairly evaluate the staff based upon how many players we were down. We had a wildly unusual loss against Maryland, with unbelievable statistical anomalies. And we had a historically bad year offensively. So I felt like this year was the proving ground for Shafer and staff.

What happened at the beginning of the year? The execution seemed exponentially better. The QB was cause for optimism. And while Dungey missed nearly half of the first several games, we seemed to be trending in the right direction. But unfortunately, it has been all downhill. Losing at UVa was a debacle. Not capitalizing against Pitt was another huge blow. Those two games were season changing gut punches. And combined with what happened against FSU and Louisville, I think it cements Shafer's fate.

I'd love to see us win the next two. And I would love it if Shafer had used this season's "proving ground" to erase doubts about his coaching acumen. But I don't think that he has, and I think we need to upgrade at HC. I understand that there are numerous reasons why he might be retained for another year, not the least of which involve million dollar contractual implications. If he stays, then I'll root just as hard for him and the team next year. But personally speaking, I've seen enough to come to the conclusion that Shafer isn't good enough for this challenge. That is hardly the torches and pitchfork knee jerk reaction foolishly alluded to in the post above.

Good post.

I guess I'm torn because I really like Shafer as a person and love many of the attributes he brings to the program as a coach. His teams have come so close on so many occasions these last two years, only to fall short in the end, and not all of that is on him. But his feel for game management certainly leaves something to be desired, and with little margin for error at this level, I wonder if he truly could be the long term answer for this program.

 

[Alsacs]

One to consider is that if we retain SS he has to get a contract extension for recruiting purposes. So while we can love him for being a good person I can't see giving a coach who has gone 14-23 more money.
However hey nobody is right or wrong. This is the beauty of sports.

 

[1040su]

retain

 

[Deuga]

Retain.

 

[Chip]

I had no idea so many Syracuse fans are just fine and dandy with 3 win seasons and offensive rankings in the 100's. Sad.

I think they just get annoyed with the mean people who want to fire the poor guy. How will he feed his family.

This guy is so close to 3 straight bowl free seasons and people would want to retain him? Makes zero sense.

What have they seen that makes them think he knows what he is doing?

 

[RF2044]

I think they just get annoyed with the mean people who want to fire the poor guy. How will he feed his family.

This guy is so close to 3 straight bowl free seasons and people would want to retain him? Makes zero sense.

What have they seen that makes them think he knows what he is doing?

That logic breaks down when you consider that he's making ~$1.5M.

Great guy, but this isn't a charity. Results count.

 

[SUfanNC]

I posted the same and didn't see yours until after.

 

[SUfanNC]

I had no idea so many Syracuse fans are just fine and dandy with 3 win seasons and offensive rankings in the 100's. Sad.

Not fine with it but again I think the the cupboard was pretty bare

 

[orange_in_VA]

Retain. For a lot of reasons.
1. The school has never shown that they are willing to pay for a top, proven staff.

2. If he's canned, no one here will be happy about the fallout, aka - most of our top players and recruits leaving. This is a legit concern, even if some on here continue to downplay this.

3. He did win a bowl game while playing in the ACC with Big East talent.

4. This team is young on both sides of the ball. Yeah, other schools deal with youth, blah blah blah, but the schools winning with youth are recruiting a whole different caliber of youth.

5. Best we've done academically maybe ever.

6. He will be a lifer even if he starts winning.

7. People are way too hasty to fire coaches in modern sports. Kansas fired Turner Gill in less than two seasons, and all he's done since then is 3 straight conference championships at Liberty. He didn't forget how to coach at Kansas. It's hard to build winners at places like Cuse and Kansas.

8. People seem to overlook everything that makes it difficult to win at SU.

There are even more reasons I could list, but those against Shaf won't listen to them anyway. I would extend his contract 2 years, negotiate a cheap buyout, and give him 5 years to show he's the right guy or not. At that time, if he's not the guy, the school better pony up 6+Mil for a new staff.

 

[orange_in_VA]

I think they just get annoyed with the mean people who want to fire the poor guy. How will he feed his family.

This guy is so close to 3 straight bowl free seasons and people would want to retain him? Makes zero sense.

What have they seen that makes them think he knows what he is doing?

3 straight bowl free seasons huh? I guess you can see into the future...

 

[orange_in_VA]

Also, what are we telling prospective coaches. "You have 3-4 years to be consistently bowl eligible playing in one of the toughest divisions in FBS at Syracuse or your gone."

 

[RF2044]

3 straight bowl free seasons huh? I guess you can see into the future...

Not really--we aren't going to one this year, didn't go to one last year, and only qualified for one three years ago on the final play of the final game. Eyelash away from going 0-3.

 

[orange_in_VA]

Not really--we aren't going to one this year, didn't go to one last year, and only qualified for one three years ago on the final play of the final game. Eyelash away from going 0-3.

That's just stupid. By your logic, we can say we made it to bowls the last three seasons because...made up realities.

 

[RF2044]

That's just stupid. By your logic, we can say we made it to bowls the last three seasons because...made up realities.

That's a pretty absurd leap of logic. Chip said "so close to 3 straight bowl free seasons..."

He was right, we literally came one play away from having three bowl free seasons. Acknowledging that doesn't take credit away from Marrone getting to the bowl in 2013.

 

[orange_in_VA]

That's a pretty absurd leap of logic. Chip said "so close to 3 straight bowl free seasons..."

He was right, we literally came one play away from having three bowl free seasons. Acknowledging that doesn't take credit away from Marrone getting to the bowl in 2013.

Ok. I see now. Me being a logical thinker assumed Chip meant we were about to have a third straight bowl-less season since we actually went to and won one in 2013 against Minny. I assumed he literally thought we were going for 3 straight.

Still, sports are close either way. That's what makes them so exciting. I don't assume losses where they don't exist. We went to a bowl in 2013. That's what happened. Theoretical scenarios are just non-sense people use to validate their opinions.

 

[ADKOrange]

Many dynamics but retain

 

[tipphill]

fire----he is directly responsible for two losses, and many bogus calls. he has not matured into the position. very sad for me to say that---i have rooted for him all the way---his game day coaching has finished me off. he will have no trouble getting hired as a coordinator for a p5 program--he is also of excellent character, and would be an asset to any school, business, company etc. his passion gets in the way of being a head coach, and negatively influences his decision making processes. just my never coached football layman opinion.

 

[JoeMing]

retain.
Don't make major decision over divided house. we know what happened we did that last time.

 

[rocklloyd]

Fire