Abrupt change in recruiting... | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

Abrupt change in recruiting...

Maybe we will be fine but it's time to start thinking bigger than just fine we should be able to land a ridiculous class every now and then.
How did Villanova win 2 of the last 4 national championships then ? They didn’t do it by landing ridiculous classes. They did it because the coach is really good and so is the system. At some point this fan base (not directed at you) needs to understand how many damn factors go into being a successful consistent program
 
Just because you want elite players to come here doesn’t mean they’ll come here... they make their own decisions for their future, not you. You‘re even worse on the football forum, kids go where they want to...if a Coach “misses” on a kid, you immediately blame our program. Freedom in America bro, is not new.
This is such an odd tone deaf take. I take Basic competition and capitalism isn't your strength.
I wish we all could go into our bosses office and blame our poor sales performance on customers just practicing their god given freedom and right to choose someone else's product.
Sorry I suck at recruiting but it's not my fault.
 
How did Villanova win 2 of the last 4 national championships then ? They didn’t do it by landing ridiculous classes. They did it because the coach is really good and so is the system. At some point this fan base (not directed at you) needs to understand how many damn factors go into being a successful consistent program
I respect your takes on college basketball as you tell it the way you see it and not how fans want to see it.

Are we recruiting well enough to compete for a NC?
Is negative recruiting working?
I don’t expect to get OAD guys but our talent has slipped.

We have lost talent like Carey and Goodine. I am no longer believing any hype and will just watch games to determine how players look.

I am not as optimistic on this year’s team as others but it’s because I have been beaten down. I just want a lock NCAAT team by February now I used to want to be competing for a top 4 seed but those days are 5 years ago.now.
 
How did Villanova win 2 of the last 4 national championships then ? They didn’t do it by landing ridiculous classes. They did it because the coach is really good and so is the system. At some point this fan base (not directed at you) needs to understand how many damn factors go into being a successful consistent program
Jay Wright is a great coach and so is system. Last time I checked we had a pretty darn good coach too. Nova didn't just win two titles because he is a great coach he has brought in really good players. Right now they are a better program and are recruiting better than us.
 
So I'm not usually one to post rumors, but this seems like a great spot to do it.

This was years ago when Hop still thought he was taking over the program. I heard from someone (this guy doesn make stuff up) that Hop told a few guys that when he takes over gmac needs to produce or he is out. I trust this someone very much, so I was really surprised when I heard it because it didn't seem to make sense with the relationship they have.

I'd be curious to hear if anyone else ever heard this rumor.
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I have a question for the recruiting guys here about Dior. Everyone is saying there was no way he was stepping foot on a college campus and everyone knew it. Then why did the staff waste so much time on him? Why didn't they shift their attention elsewhere.
 
I have a question for the recruiting guys here about Dior. Everyone is saying there was no way he was stepping foot on a college campus and everyone knew it. Then why did the staff waste so much time on him? Why didn't they shift their attention elsewhere.

Imagine the posts if we didn’t pursue Dior and he pans out into a star and it later comes out that he wanted to come here.
 
I respect your takes on college basketball as you tell it the way you see it and not how fans want to see it.

Are we recruiting well enough to compete for a NC?
Is negative recruiting working?
I don’t expect to get OAD guys but our talent has slipped.

We have lost talent like Carey and Goodine. I am no longer believing any hype and will just watch games to determine how players look.

I am not as optimistic on this year’s team as others but it’s because I have been beaten down. I just want a lock NCAAT team by February now I used to want to be competing for a top 4 seed but those days are 5 years ago.now.
I will say a couple of things about the recruiting so people get a better sense of where things are...
The talent can win games, but I don’t think the “system” is right For 95 out of 100 kids. Gonna say that flat out. The short bench. The zone. The lack of freedom to just play. Kids look at this stuff now because they have so many people around them to help make the decision now on what school to choose... North Carolina is easy to recruit because their system is score points. Run plays. Score points and see if you make some in game adjustments to win the game. SU doesn’t do recruit that way where they give the player the keys to the car. If they did, they would be far more successful. Lastly, kids care about who got drafted last year. The schools that our recruit SU always have a first round pick. It’s no mystery !

As far as the coaching element to the recruiting- the staff has tried to land some big fish but for the reasons I stated above it gives the recruit all the reasons TO NOT COME versus come to Syracuse. Everyone wants to talk about how su is a big time program and so successful and I’m telling you the perception with recruits is not that because they don’t get players drafted on consistent basis that end up being great pros that these kids watch every night on TNT. Kids are realizing the path is much easier to go to a school where they don’t have to change for a system and they can be themselves as a player. Jalen Carey is a perfect example here. The kid could flat out play. But the system for Jalen Carey was the worst possible scenario BC it took away his natural ability to play the game he’s really good at ... so that’s why we lose talent that’s really good. I love Boeheim for what he has done, but it’s his way or the highway like we all know and he’s not gonna have some kid come in and possibly cost them games because he plays erratically free even though the player will show his natural ability the more he plays and gets comfortable on his own...

last thing- JB doesn’t travel and recruit anymore. You guys wanna blame Gmac so much but lemmme share a little story... I got recruited by SEC and Big East programs to play Division 1 golf at the highest level. I thoroughly enjoyed the process and it was a crazy 3 years of recruiting. But You know who called me? THE HEAD COACH. You know who visited me? THE HEAD COACH. I had one program where just the assistant called me. Do you think I took that program seriously ? Immediately off my list. And you know what program I went to ? The one that said you’re guaranteed to play every single tournament your entire career. And then coach said he’s never going to impede my improvement and was going to let me be and do my thing. I became an all American my senior year of college because I learned on my own without sticking to a system that I was forced to follow. I hope this gives you a sense of how the factors that occur at SU really does affect the recruits you guys want so bad...

sorry for the long winded answer and speech, but I think it’s important to look at it from the real side and not the fan side. Those are facts. JB has been better with the recruiting and making contact during a pandemic bc he doesn’t need to leave the house ! He has a team of great people and asst coaches but at some point, these kids need to be let loose and guaranteed of that. It’s basketball it’s meant to be played a certain way and recruits choose other schools because they are guaranteed they can do that there and not here
 
Imagine the posts if we didn’t pursue Dior and he pans out into a star and it later comes out that he wanted to come here.
Your talking about if he went to another school.
 
I will say a couple of things about the recruiting so people get a better sense of where things are...
The talent can win games, but I don’t think the “system” is right For 95 out of 100 kids. Gonna say that flat out. The short bench. The zone. The lack of freedom to just play. Kids look at this stuff now because they have so many people around them to help make the decision now on what school to choose... North Carolina is easy to recruit because their system is score points. Run plays. Score points and see if you make some in game adjustments to win the game. SU doesn’t do recruit that way where they give the player the keys to the car. If they did, they would be far more successful. Lastly, kids care about who got drafted last year. The schools that our recruit SU always have a first round pick. It’s no mystery !

As far as the coaching element to the recruiting- the staff has tried to land some big fish but for the reasons I stated above it gives the recruit all the reasons TO NOT COME versus come to Syracuse. Everyone wants to talk about how su is a big time program and so successful and I’m telling you the perception with recruits is not that because they don’t get players drafted on consistent basis that end up being great pros that these kids watch every night on TNT. Kids are realizing the path is much easier to go to a school where they don’t have to change for a system and they can be themselves as a player. Jalen Carey is a perfect example here. The kid could flat out play. But the system for Jalen Carey was the worst possible scenario BC it took away his natural ability to play the game he’s really good at ... so that’s why we lose talent that’s really good. I love Boeheim for what he has done, but it’s his way or the highway like we all know and he’s not gonna have some kid come in and possibly cost them games because he plays erratically free even though the player will show his natural ability the more he plays and gets comfortable on his own...

last thing- JB doesn’t travel and recruit anymore. You guys wanna blame Gmac so much but lemmme share a little story... I got recruited by SEC and Big East programs to play Division 1 golf at the highest level. I thoroughly enjoyed the process and it was a crazy 3 years of recruiting. But You know who called me? THE HEAD COACH. You know who visited me? THE HEAD COACH. I had one program where just the assistant called me. Do you think I took that program seriously ? Immediately off my list. And you know what program I went to ? The one that said you’re guaranteed to play every single tournament your entire career. And then coach said he’s never going to impede my improvement and was going to let me be and do my thing. I became an all American my senior year of college because I learned on my own without sticking to a system that I was forced to follow. I hope this gives you a sense of how the factors that occur at SU really does affect the recruits you guys want so bad...

sorry for the long winded answer and speech, but I think it’s important to look at it from the real side and not the fan side. Those are facts. JB has been better with the recruiting and making contact during a pandemic bc he doesn’t need to leave the house ! He has a team of great people and asst coaches but at some point, these kids need to be let loose and guaranteed of that. It’s basketball it’s meant to be played a certain way and recruits choose other schools because they are guaranteed they can do that there and not here
On defense maybe but Jb is known for giving his players a lot of freedom on offense.
 
I have a question for the recruiting guys here about Dior. Everyone is saying there was no way he was stepping foot on a college campus and everyone knew it. Then why did the staff waste so much time on him? Why didn't they shift their attention elsewhere.

he was coming here. People that ended up being “right” had no inside info of the scenario. They were speculating so they could say “see I told ya so”. The kid loved the campus. Loved the coaches. But he has some wild stuff happening in his life that he needs to focus on and the staff helped every way they could. He was always priority 1 for staff
 
On defense maybe but Jb is known for giving his players a lot of freedom on offense.
Ummmm go watch the press conference where he yells at reporters about mookie Jones shooting 3s. This statement that he allows them freedom is insane. I’m sorry to call you out on that. But it’s the complete complete opposite. If that were the case we would have so many different high scorers in every game like the Dukes and UnCs have. There’s one person on SU that gets the ball a lot and gets the green light. And there’s are the comments where it’s like why do I post it if it’s going to get rebutted ? I’m telling you how it is in shoot around, practices, and games.
 
I have a question for the recruiting guys here about Dior. Everyone is saying there was no way he was stepping foot on a college campus and everyone knew it. Then why did the staff waste so much time on him? Why didn't they shift their attention elsewhere.
More than likely the staff figured he was a long shot to make it here but the staff new he would attract other recruits to have interest in our program, I am sure we have a plan ( B ) for a quality guard to replace him he was a ( PG ) thankfully we have JG3 and Kadary around for a few years. I would bet a high percentage of schools would have done the same thing we did.
 
I will say a couple of things about the recruiting so people get a better sense of where things are...
The talent can win games, but I don’t think the “system” is right For 95 out of 100 kids. Gonna say that flat out. The short bench. The zone. The lack of freedom to just play. Kids look at this stuff now because they have so many people around them to help make the decision now on what school to choose... North Carolina is easy to recruit because their system is score points. Run plays. Score points and see if you make some in game adjustments to win the game. SU doesn’t do recruit that way where they give the player the keys to the car. If they did, they would be far more successful. Lastly, kids care about who got drafted last year. The schools that our recruit SU always have a first round pick. It’s no mystery !

As far as the coaching element to the recruiting- the staff has tried to land some big fish but for the reasons I stated above it gives the recruit all the reasons TO NOT COME versus come to Syracuse. Everyone wants to talk about how su is a big time program and so successful and I’m telling you the perception with recruits is not that because they don’t get players drafted on consistent basis that end up being great pros that these kids watch every night on TNT. Kids are realizing the path is much easier to go to a school where they don’t have to change for a system and they can be themselves as a player. Jalen Carey is a perfect example here. The kid could flat out play. But the system for Jalen Carey was the worst possible scenario BC it took away his natural ability to play the game he’s really good at ... so that’s why we lose talent that’s really good. I love Boeheim for what he has done, but it’s his way or the highway like we all know and he’s not gonna have some kid come in and possibly cost them games because he plays erratically free even though the player will show his natural ability the more he plays and gets comfortable on his own...

last thing- JB doesn’t travel and recruit anymore. You guys wanna blame Gmac so much but lemmme share a little story... I got recruited by SEC and Big East programs to play Division 1 golf at the highest level. I thoroughly enjoyed the process and it was a crazy 3 years of recruiting. But You know who called me? THE HEAD COACH. You know who visited me? THE HEAD COACH. I had one program where just the assistant called me. Do you think I took that program seriously ? Immediately off my list. And you know what program I went to ? The one that said you’re guaranteed to play every single tournament your entire career. And then coach said he’s never going to impede my improvement and was going to let me be and do my thing. I became an all American my senior year of college because I learned on my own without sticking to a system that I was forced to follow. I hope this gives you a sense of how the factors that occur at SU really does affect the recruits you guys want so bad...

sorry for the long winded answer and speech, but I think it’s important to look at it from the real side and not the fan side. Those are facts. JB has been better with the recruiting and making contact during a pandemic bc he doesn’t need to leave the house ! He has a team of great people and asst coaches but at some point, these kids need to be let loose and guaranteed of that. It’s basketball it’s meant to be played a certain way and recruits choose other schools because they are guaranteed they can do that there and not here
lol these Jaken Carey takes... good lord
 
Ummmm go watch the press conference where he yells at reporters about mookie Jones shooting 3s. This statement that he allows them freedom is insane. I’m sorry to call you out on that. But it’s the complete complete opposite. If that were the case we would have so many different high scorers in every game like the Dukes and UnCs have. There’s one person on SU that gets the ball a lot and gets the green light. And there’s are the comments where it’s like why do I post it if it’s going to get rebutted ? I’m telling you how it is in shoot around, practices, and games.
Mookie Jones just wasn't any good there is a fine line between freedom and a chucker. I have heard several players and recruits say in the past one of the reasons they liked Jb was the freedom he gave his players on offense.
 
I will say a couple of things about the recruiting so people get a better sense of where things are...
The talent can win games, but I don’t think the “system” is right For 95 out of 100 kids. Gonna say that flat out. The short bench. The zone. The lack of freedom to just play. Kids look at this stuff now because they have so many people around them to help make the decision now on what school to choose... North Carolina is easy to recruit because their system is score points. Run plays. Score points and see if you make some in game adjustments to win the game. SU doesn’t do recruit that way where they give the player the keys to the car. If they did, they would be far more successful. Lastly, kids care about who got drafted last year. The schools that our recruit SU always have a first round pick. It’s no mystery !

As far as the coaching element to the recruiting- the staff has tried to land some big fish but for the reasons I stated above it gives the recruit all the reasons TO NOT COME versus come to Syracuse. Everyone wants to talk about how su is a big time program and so successful and I’m telling you the perception with recruits is not that because they don’t get players drafted on consistent basis that end up being great pros that these kids watch every night on TNT. Kids are realizing the path is much easier to go to a school where they don’t have to change for a system and they can be themselves as a player. Jalen Carey is a perfect example here. The kid could flat out play. But the system for Jalen Carey was the worst possible scenario BC it took away his natural ability to play the game he’s really good at ... so that’s why we lose talent that’s really good. I love Boeheim for what he has done, but it’s his way or the highway like we all know and he’s not gonna have some kid come in and possibly cost them games because he plays erratically free even though the player will show his natural ability the more he plays and gets comfortable on his own...

last thing- JB doesn’t travel and recruit anymore. You guys wanna blame Gmac so much but lemmme share a little story... I got recruited by SEC and Big East programs to play Division 1 golf at the highest level. I thoroughly enjoyed the process and it was a crazy 3 years of recruiting. But You know who called me? THE HEAD COACH. You know who visited me? THE HEAD COACH. I had one program where just the assistant called me. Do you think I took that program seriously ? Immediately off my list. And you know what program I went to ? The one that said you’re guaranteed to play every single tournament your entire career. And then coach said he’s never going to impede my improvement and was going to let me be and do my thing. I became an all American my senior year of college because I learned on my own without sticking to a system that I was forced to follow. I hope this gives you a sense of how the factors that occur at SU really does affect the recruits you guys want so bad...

sorry for the long winded answer and speech, but I think it’s important to look at it from the real side and not the fan side. Those are facts. JB has been better with the recruiting and making contact during a pandemic bc he doesn’t need to leave the house ! He has a team of great people and asst coaches but at some point, these kids need to be let loose and guaranteed of that. It’s basketball it’s meant to be played a certain way and recruits choose other schools because they are guaranteed they can do that there and not here
Yeah I believe this.
I hate how our fanbase overblows the sanctions.
They hurt us no doubt our HC not playing a deep rotation didnt really hurt if he recruited players who were studs like we were used to getting.

The sanctions really impacted walkons who JB would put on scholarship for APR and reward purposes. We haven’t had a full roster of 13 scholarship players who were players outside of 2012.

When we lost Hop it’s not a coincidence we haven’t had a first round draft pick in the NBA draft.

Hop leaving really hurt recruiting.
I don’t expect to be a NC favorite for the rest of the JB’s tenure.
We won’t have the horses IMO. His system will make us a threat in the tournament because when he has the defensive personnel our defense can win any game.

It’s disappointing but JB is a HOFer and given our fanbase an incredible run so just being a realist allows for more enjoyment.
 
This is Syracuse not Wake Forrest or Rutgers. We are a big time program. Go to any other big time programs it's the same thing. I expect to miss on guys we have missed on way too many lately.
Lol the way you chronicle our recruiting losses you would think we are anything but big time, comical really. You defend Rutgers football, but not Rutgers basketball when they are ranked and we‘re not? I don’t understand your agenda, but it’s definitley not pro Cuse .
 
So I'm not usually one to post rumors, but this seems like a great spot to do it.

This was years ago when Hop still thought he was taking over the program. I heard from someone (this guy doesn make stuff up) that Hop told a few guys that when he takes over gmac needs to produce or he is out. I trust this someone very much, so I was really surprised when I heard it because it didn't seem to make sense with the relationship they have.

I'd be curious to hear if anyone else ever heard this rumor.
I think some are immediately tossing this rumor in the trash because they can’t see hop maliciously dissing a colleague and fellow alumnus. But that message could have been delivered any number of ways. Hop could’ve said “I love Gerry, he’s a nice guy but I’m going to need a staff with an established and proven record.”

it’s not far-fetched that hop would say that. Many of us have had similar thoughts.
 
I think some are immediately tossing this rumor in the trash because they can’t see hop maliciously dissing a colleague and fellow alumnus. But that message could have been delivered any number of ways. Hop could’ve said “I love Gerry, he’s a nice guy but I’m going to need a staff with an established and proven record.”

it’s not far-fetched that hop would say that. Many of us have had similar thoughts.
Yeah, like I said, I trust the guy that told me that, but it just doesn't seem right.
 
Mookie Jones just wasn't any good there is a fine line between freedom and a chucker. I have heard several players and recruits say in the past one of the reasons they liked Jb was the freedom he gave his players on offense.

Mookie shot just shy of 40% from 3 for his career.

That’s a lot higher % than a ton of ‘name’ 3pt shooters at Cuse.

Anyway - back to JB.
Yeah, I had always heard that players liked his letting them do their thing on O.
His system is on D w the 2-3, we don’t have dick for a ‘system’ on O - anybody watching us play for the last decade can figure that out rather quickly.
 
I think some are immediately tossing this rumor in the trash because they can’t see hop maliciously dissing a colleague and fellow alumnus. But that message could have been delivered any number of ways. Hop could’ve said “I love Gerry, he’s a nice guy but I’m going to need a staff with an established and proven record.”

it’s not far-fetched that hop would say that. Many of us have had similar thoughts.
IIRC the immediate buzz when Hop took the Washington job was that he was trying to get GMac to come along.
 
I love these threads, they appear every few months or so, and each time the person posting it frames it like it’s some new, authentic epiphany while leaving out relevant/significant circumstances altogether... hey I’m here for ‘em, every last one of ‘em!
I don’t see how people can deny the reality that recruiting has faltered a bit. We could always land one or two top 50 kids in most classes, along with other top 100 kids. that’s not happening as regularly anymore. Other threads have illuminated the specifics. I like the recruits we’ve gotten lately (Kadary, Frank, Benny, Griff), but we still have work to do to get back to where we were. Fran Fraschilla remarked on multiple broadcasts last season that the talent on the roster just wasn’t up to Syracuse’s historical standards. The size and athleticism isn’t there, especially on the wings and the interior, though I see some improvement coming this season and next. I just wish Elijah had stayed another year.
 
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As fantastic of a recruiter that Hop was and is, I believe it was our hired guns (Weaver and Murphy) that put us over the top. Their connections to top prospects and programs were very strong. As nice as it may look to have an All-Orange alumni staff, sometimes you gotta step out of the “family”.
 
As fantastic of a recruiter that Hop was and is, I believe it was our hired guns (Weaver and Murphy) that put us over the top. Their connections to top prospects and programs were very strong. As nice as it may look to have an All-Orange alumni staff, sometimes you gotta step out of the “family”.
We still had several great classes after Weaver and Murph left.

Hop was a huge loss... and like Others have said, JB just doesn’t recruit as much anymore. If you’re Gayle and you get daily check in’s from Capel, Wojo, Holtmann, Hurley and GMac? Doesn’t look great for us
 

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