ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment

[MSOrange]

YTTV and NFL app are great at being functional for sports. The NFL app I can turn off seeing any scores so when I watch a game on replay I don’t see the score by mistake going into the app. The ESPN is completely archaic. Even my European cycling app could use some work but functionally a lot better than ESPN. It’s the worst app I use.

Agree. I'm only a couple days into YTTV and am impressed. It's much better than ESPN streaming.

 

[MSOrange]

 

[djorange1989]

How would this help?

Yeah ND won’t care, unless they are forced to join a conference due to playoff rules changing, or if these new mega conferences make it too difficult for them to schedule the 7 non-ACC games each season then I don’t see them going anywhere. They are happy where they are and while they won’t get Big 10 TV money, they will get a lot and I assume they get to keep all of their bowl money(or do they give any to the ACC as part of the alliance?). Either way, I don’t see them joining a conference without a gun to their head

 

[AngryOtto]

No way they can just add two, one of those schools is going to do back to back weekend trips to the east coast. Problem is nobody adds any value maybe do Unlv, SD state and another. ACC championship in Vegas lol

No. UNLV, SDSU do not add any value. I do not think Stanford or Cal add anything. I do not want the acc to take anyone at this point. The GOR keeps things stable for at least five years. ESPN is already feeling cash flow issues trying to sell off a portion of the network. Fox and NBC may run into the same issue. Let it play out through the first couple of years of the playoff. SU needs spend the time improving the brand not splitting money with additional potential schools at this time. Increase the school’s exposure and things will play out in their favor.

 

[qdawgg]

Yeah ND won’t care, unless they are forced to join a conference due to playoff rules changing, or if these new mega conferences make it too difficult for them to schedule the 7 non-ACC games each season then I don’t see them going anywhere. They are happy where they are and while they won’t get Big 10 TV money, they will get a lot and I assume they get to keep all of their bowl money(or do they give any to the ACC as part of the alliance?). Either way, I don’t see them joining a conference without a gun to their head

Plus, ND doesn't have Stanford scheduled past 2024 at all. So not sure that's a game that's destined to be played every year in the future.

 

[Toga]

If Stanford / Cal happens, the only direct difference to me is there would be more late evening games of interest to me. Which is nice.

 

[NYCCuse826]

Stanford and Cal would have been interesting had the rest of the Pac 10 joined after UCLA/USC left. This doesn't move the needle and stinks of desperation.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Stanford and Cal would have been interesting had the rest of the Pac 10 joined after UCLA/USC left. This doesn't move the needle and stinks of desperation.

Absolutely.

I understand giving them a call if the ACC loses schools but as things currently stand they would make the conference look horrible from every angle possible.

I'm not sure any more adding needs to be done the SEC/B1G/Big12 are all too big as things stand. B1G just figured they might as well destroy the P12 since the LA market is iffy.

Cal and Stanford are BC 3000 miles away they add absolutely nothing.

 

[HtownOrange]

I posted this article in today daily articles but I thought I would re-post it here with a special emphasis on one paragraph.

Reports: ACC had meeting set on adding Pac-12 schools before 'Big' departures

Friday was a wild day in college sports that saw a 'Power 5' conference consumed by two of its peers to the tune of five schools in one day. And the ACC was rep

www.tigernet.com

...
News & Observer reporter Andrew Carter confirmed that report and confirmed the idea that that kind of Western expansion is unlikely now for the league. Carter reported that an ACC/Pac-12 merger would've cost ACC schools between $1-3 million per year in TV revenue, saying that "no remaining P12 school brought value to the league."
...

There was an earlier report that the ACC could add members as they chose and the new members would get full payment. This report makes things look like that was not accurate.

This explains why the ACC was maybe not quite as eager to add the P12 refugees as the B12. Guessing that the B12 is also taking a haircut to add the P12 schools to their league. Guessing they are willing to take a short term hit to have extra schools in place in case another raid comes. Or maybe just because they are thinking there is strength in numbers.

Tom, I think this reflects ESPN's veto power, the power to ensure the ACC cannot water down the value of the conference by adding "friends and family" at will. Specifically, any add would have to increase the value to cover the increase in ESPN's total payout.

I think this is why the B1G did NOT immediately invite Washington and Oregon. Fox Balked, neither was worthy of such a contract. Recall, collectively, the Pac-12 was not worth a $30MM/team deal from ACC or Fox. USC and UCLA were the primary value in the conference and without USC and UCLA, they were offered something around $21MM/team.

Obviously, this is speculation on my part, but it helps explain why the B1G offered Washington and Oregon $30MM with $1MM annual increases for the current deal.

Just another opinion, nothing worth being dogmatic about.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I wonder if the academic schools are pushing for similar schools as a potential left behind conference. Schools who have no interest in potentially paying players.

Would ESPN pay for SMU and Rice as well? Then you have a home for Cal, Stanford, SMU, Rice, Wake, Duke, BC and if still around GA Tech, UVA, Pitt, SU. Maybe even Notre Dame (they have come out against paying players). Could Vandy leave the SEC?

Eventually Tulane would be added and I think they could also consider USF, Temple or Villanova, UConn, Miami Ohio, Air Force, Army, Navy.

A nice 16 school national conference made up of academic school who aren't interested in paying players.

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

How is Gonzaga academically? Hoops only? They definitely have a fan base?

 

[Chip]

Someone tell ASU, Arizona, and Utah:

No pen. No write. No sign!

No firmen!

 

[orangenauburn]

Not sure why the PAC remnants just don't join with Mountain West

That gets them to 16 and it'd be an entertaining conference

BYU is like ND and as of now doesn't need a conference.

Liberty will probably get their someday too.

 

[longtimefan]

That’s the real reason the ACC would add Stanford. It can only help with ND.

USC won't get ND to the B1G, and Stanford would not get them to the ACC. The 12-team playoff and NBC money will keep them independent.

 

[AZOrange]

Good find. Those numbers are astronomical.

Seems impossible

 

[Chris02M]

Not sure why the PAC remnants just don't join with Mountain West

That gets them to 16 and it'd be an entertaining conference

BYU is like ND and as of now doesn't need a conference.

Liberty will probably get their someday too.

the mountain west only makes like 5- 7 mil per year that is why

 

[corpjet]

Why not just have them (Cal & Stanford) join for football (basketball If they want)for a couple of years, throw limited money their way (more than the MWC can offer) and see where everything starts to shake out.

Making Olympic sports athletes do the cross country thing is ridiculous.

 

[Chris02M]

Why not just have them (Cal & Stanford) join for football (basketball If they want)for a couple of years, throw limited money their way (more than the MWC can offer) and see where everything starts to shake out.

Making Olympic sports athletes do the cross country thing is ridiculous.

cal and stanford will have to do that for any league in p5 atthis point

 

[Chip]

Not sure why the PAC remnants just don't join with Mountain West

That gets them to 16 and it'd be an entertaining conference

BYU is like ND and as of now doesn't need a conference.

Liberty will probably get their someday too.

BYU is in the Big 12, they were added with Houston, Cincy, UCF after the Texas-Oklahoma SEC news broke.

 

[Jake]

I guess I didn’t realize that the ACC has a pro rata expansion clause with ESPN that states they can add schools to the conference and not change the distribution per school.

So Cal /Stanford will automatically generate another 2 whole shares for the league. Assume they won’t be full members, the extra goes to everyone else…but once you factor in travel costs it might be a wash.

 

[sutomcat]

I guess I didn’t realize that the ACC has a pro rata expansion clause with ESPN that states they can add schools to the conference and not change the distribution per school.

So Cal /Stanford will automatically generate another 2 whole shares for the league. Assume they won’t be full members, the extra goes to everyone else…but once you factor in travel costs it might be a wash.

There was a report that said this but I linked to a story (see post 4363 in this thread) that says ACC schools would have lost 1.5-2 million per school per year if they took In P12 schools.

I assume that was all the ones remaining. If it is just 2 or 4, maybe the cut in revenue is less. Or given these were apparently the 4 schools left, taking them in might cost the ACC schools even more revenue.

I think the questions are, it is worth it to add 2 (or 4) P5 level schools for inventory to backfill in case some ACC schools leave some day? And what would the impact be of adding these schools to ACCN revenue? I assume this would generate a fairly significant amount of extra money in California and maybe Washington and Oregon. Would it be enough to play shares for the new schools and give the existing ACC schools at least enough of a bump to offset the hit to ESPN straight revenue that would result from taking the stray P12 schools?

It might make more sense to take Stanford, Cal, San Diego State and SMU. Or maybe the P12 4 plus San Diego State and SMU. Getting more schools out west means more games can be scheduled out west and travel costs and requirements can be reduced.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Why not just have them (Cal & Stanford) join for football (basketball If they want)for a couple of years, throw limited money their way (more than the MWC can offer) and see where everything starts to shake out.

Making Olympic sports athletes do the cross country thing is ridiculous.

If the ACC wouldn't take Hopkins for LAX only, they're not taking a west coast school as a football only.

 

[HtownOrange]

I guess I didn’t realize that the ACC has a pro rata expansion clause with ESPN that states they can add schools to the conference and not change the distribution per school.

So Cal /Stanford will automatically generate another 2 whole shares for the league. Assume they won’t be full members, the extra goes to everyone else…but once you factor in travel costs it might be a wash.

I cannot confirm, but I suspect ESPN must approve of the addition. ESPN is the other contracting party and would be foolish to not have some control over who is invited to join the ACC. Again, speculation on my part. However, the B1G offered Washington and Oregon $30MM with $1MM annual increases during this contract.

Recall, Washington and Oregon were rumored as shoo-ins for the B1G and then the B1g invite failed to materialize. I believe Fox put on the brakes. Also recall that the Pac12 was offered around $30MM/team with USC and UCLA, then around $21MM/team without USC and UCLA. This strongly indicates that both Fox and ESPN saw some value in the schools, but not sufficient to pay the bigger money, which caused USC and UCLA to have wandering eyes. This also explains why the ACC could not move forward, the ACC averaged $42MM/team at the last payout, far move (40% more) than the Pac12 was offered with USC and UCLA.

Again, this is speculation on my part. I have no inside information, but using the data in the public sphere and a little bit of logic, this is where it lead me. I remain open to correction and better facts and reserve the right to update my opinion based on better data and facts. I also reserve the right to ignore FSU booster blowhards with IQs lower than their shoe size, this applies to the Dude, internet loud mouths, sports writers needing click bait to keep their jobs, etc.

 

[Jake]

There was a report that said this but I linked to a story (see post 4363 in this thread) that says ACC schools would have lost 1.5-2 million per school per year if they took In P12 schools.

I assume that was all the ones remaining. If it is just 2 or 4, maybe the cut in revenue is less. Or given these were apparently the 4 schools left, taking them in might cost the ACC schools even more revenue.

I think the questions are, it is worth it to add 2 (or 4) P5 level schools for inventory to backfill in case some ACC schools leave some day? And what would the impact be of adding these schools to ACCN revenue? I assume this would generate a fairly significant amount of extra money in California and maybe Washington and Oregon. Would it be enough to play shares for the new schools and give the existing ACC schools at least enough of a bump to offset the hit to ESPN straight revenue that would result from taking the stray P12 schools?

It might make more sense to take Stanford, Cal, San Diego State and SMU. Or maybe the P12 4 plus San Diego State and SMU. Getting more schools out west means more games can be scheduled out west and travel costs and requirements can be reduced.

Stuart Mandel mentioned the pro rata clause as fact today. He wasn’t sure how many teams could be added. He said Big12 had the same clause and was capped at 4. He speculated ACC clause was unlimited (assuming ESPN had to approve).

 

[UnknownOrange]

Add 6 schools out west

Add 4 more schools in the east

4 divisions of 6. 24 teams total.

Semi Final
Division winner 1 v 4
Division winner 2 v 3

Conference champion
Semi final winner 1
Semi final winner 2

Could lose a cupcake game to make this work or play the cupcake in week 0