ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment

[CousCuse]

Cal and Stanford as replacements for FSU and Clemson?

 

[sutomcat]

Stuart Mandel mentioned the pro rata clause as fact today. He wasn’t sure how many teams could be added. He said Big12 had the same clause and was capped at 4. He speculated ACC clause was unlimited (assuming ESPN had to approve).

That pro data clause was reported as fact months ago. Not saying Stewart is right or wrong.

But Andrew Carter says he is wrong.


Hopefully someone in the media can get the facts straight on this. I don’t know who is right and would really like to know. If it was true that the ACC could add anyone they wanted and not experience a drop in revenue, why do they always end up saying adding schools doesn’t make fiscal sense?

 

[Jake]

That pro data clause was reported as fact months ago. Not saying Stewart is right or wrong.

But Andrew Carter says he is wrong.


Hopefully someone in the media can get the facts straight on this. I don’t know who is right and would really like to know. If it was true that the ACC could add anyone they wanted and not experience a drop in revenue, why do they always end up saying adding schools doesn’t make fiscal sense?

I wonder if Olympic travel costs drain the value from positive to negative.

 

[Hoo's That]

I see the B1G going after UNC and UVa. Those appear to be the schools they really want.

To get them, they might also have to take NC State and VT.

And they might do that. It keeps the SEC out of NC and Va.

Just don't see these great academic institutions in the same conference as many of the SEC schools. They don't belong there and they should have their choice where they go.

Anyway, if the B1G closes off top choices in NC and Va, what does the SEC do?

Take Wake or Duke? No.

Take James Madison or Liberty? No.

Do they take FSU, who Florida desperately does not want in the SEC?

Do they take Clemson, who South Carolina desperately does not want in the SEC?

Texas A&M did not want Texas in the SEC and got voted down. But they were a newcomer.

I think Florida and South Carolina might have more pull. And I am not sure adding those programs does much to elevate the SEC. If they take them, it is only to block the B1G from taking them.

The B1G might want FSU and Clemson. But they might be all full at the inn by then. 4 more schools is a lot to take in. But if my math is right, adding 6 more gets the B1G to 24, which seems like a good number to stop at. So it might just happen.

As long as Va Tech and NC State have soft landing spots the state governments will let the schools be separated. What would seem likely (and has been posited as the most likely outcome) is that UNC and UVa would go to one conference and Va Tech and NCSU would go to the other.

UNC was one of the driving forces behind the formation of the ACC out of the way-too-big Southern Conference in 1953. Going to a way-too-big SEC or B1G is going back to the future. They won't want to leave until they see irreparable cracks that will lead to the roof's collapse.

 

[Willy75]

As long as Va Tech and NC State have soft landing spots the state governments will let the schools be separated. What would seem likely (and has been posited as the most likely outcome) is that UNC and UVa would go to one conference and Va Tech and NCSU would go to the other.

UNC was one of the driving forces behind the formation of the ACC out of the way-too-big Southern Conference in 1953. Going to a way-too-big SEC or B1G is going back to the future. They won't want to leave until they see irreparable cracks that will lead to the roof's collapse.

Add to your final thought the fact that the NC schools are widely perceived to pretty much drive the bus in the ACC, whereas they'd be one of many in another conference.

 

[Hoo's That]

I hope the ACC has learned that you take the real vote behind closed doors. If there’s enough votes, then everybody votes for it and it’s unanimous if there’s not you decided it’s not worth a vote at all. Cannot go through what we went through in 2003 all over again. I don’t think this is going to be a unanimous agreement among the athletic directors to add Cal and Stanford.

The only problem with that is state freedom of information laws. The media in FL, SC, NC, and VA would definitely ask for the records of the state schools and you could possibly add the media in PA and KY depending on how Pitt and Louisville fit into their laws.

 

[Toga]

Cal and Stanford join for revenue sports only. Partial shares to those schools. Existing members gain $1-2M net of travel expenses. A western beachhead is established for when the Big 12? contract is close to expiring at end of the decade. There's going to be some wild rounds of realignment during the 2028 - 2033 timeframe. In the meantime I get to watch a bunch more late evening games.

 

[Hoo's That]

Might Stanford eventually "help" with Notre Dame?

No. Notre Dame has a viable path to the championship and is perfectly willing to trade topping out in the 5 v. 12 game to keep their independence. The SEC got a two-fer in the new playoff structure, they can get more than one team into the playoffs and they kept ND from needing to join the ACC or B1G to get into the playoffs.

 

[HtownOrange]

That pro data clause was reported as fact months ago. Not saying Stewart is right or wrong.

But Andrew Carter says he is wrong.


Hopefully someone in the media can get the facts straight on this. I don’t know who is right and would really like to know. If it was true that the ACC could add anyone they wanted and not experience a drop in revenue, why do they always end up saying adding schools doesn’t make fiscal sense?

It may be as simple as the network refusing to re-enter negotiations when a new team is added, capping the new revenue to the pro-rata share. Just a guess, as I once thought the same, thought I suspected the network would hold a veto if the new team was not financially worth the networks time and money.

 

[qdawgg]

Cal and Stanford as replacements for FSU and Clemson?

Are there other free teams out there with the value of Clemson????

Do you just type things off the cuff or are there any posts you’ve made recently that I can peek at you’ve put any thought into?

 

[MikeSU02]

it will be interesting to see.. i know how much i watch sports I dont see myself paying that much to watch it.

I know the older people I know will not pay a cent to watch it but they do stumble across games and watch on occasion.

How can you say ESPN+ is terrible? Its the best deal in streaming.

I have direct tv. I watch games almost every night but 99% of the time its on a non sports channel.

The team that does espn+ is basically treated like a startup (or at least was).

There were real issues with the tech, the ux, etc because of how much got thrown onto it and what it was supposed to be/do. It was a bit of a mess. I can say that with certainty.

ESPN, the traditional tv side, is basically a totally different company.

There is a reason why Iger is bullish on sports but lukewarm on espn. ESPN bragging about spending $100M on a new sports center studio a decade or so or whatever was a massive indication of how wrong they had the future pegged.

I think espn+ has like 5M subs. If they offered a full mirror of content for $25 that cable has, I still think they’d be losing. I’ve read that it would basically have to be $50 or something.

Bottom line, imo, espn isn’t a bank anymore. Iger knows this. I think there is a reckoning coming. There is def a non zero chance Apple or Amazon or another company is running stuff for cfb in the not too distant future.

 

[ECE '76]

Might Stanford eventually "help" with Notre Dame?

Notre Dame cares more about USC. But USC might not care so much about ND any more, now that they're in the B1G.

 

[Orangefan1]

No. Notre Dame has a viable path to the championship and is perfectly willing to trade topping out in the 5 v. 12 game to keep their independence. The SEC got a two-fer in the new playoff structure, they can get more than one team into the playoffs and they kept ND from needing to join the ACC or B1G to get into the playoffs.

What doesn’t make sense is Notre Dame is already in the ACC for football playing almost 50 percent of their schedule in conference what’s the difference if they added thre more league games? They still can play four other teams outside of the league like everyone else does anyways. Notre Dame makes no sense

 

[dasher]

Cal and Stanford as replacements for FSU and Clemson?

Why would you even write that? Of course not. If FSU and Clemson were to leave, and I don't think they will at this time, Stanford and Cal wouldn't add a thing to replace them. Now, UMass would be a different story.

 

[Hoo's That]

What doesn’t make sense is Notre Dame is already in the ACC for football playing almost 50 percent of their schedule in conference what’s the difference if they added thre more league games? They still can play four other teams outside of the league like everyone else does anyways. Notre Dame makes no sense

You're preaching to the choir, Reverend. If they joined we'd go to 2-6-6 scheduling, which keeps the conference from having to take a 16th member, They'd get to pick two of Pitt, Ga Tech, and Miami, the ACC teams they've played most often and still have room for Navy, USC (assuming the Trojans have schedule room), and Stanford.

 

[qdawgg]

Notre Dame cares more about USC. But USC might not care so much about ND any more, now that they're in the B1G.

ND doesn’t care about USC. ND cares about ND and kids recording football practice

 

[ECE '76]

That’s the real reason the ACC would add Stanford. It can only help with ND.

The real reason is because the anti-expanders UNC and Duke would do just about anything to be associated with Stanford, IMHO.

 

[JimBoston]

Adding Stanford and Cal to the ACC is a terrible idea. According to NCAA rules, you can not separate revenue sports from non-revenue sports and put them in different conferences. Thus, by adding 2 Western teams, travel costs for all sports would go up considerably. It would be a bigger problem for Stanford and Cal. Would ACC payouts go up to compensate for the additional travel? Probably not. And, what do they bring to the party?

 

[CousCuse]

Why would you even write that? Of course not. If FSU and Clemson were to leave, and I don't think they will at this time, Stanford and Cal wouldn't add a thing to replace them. Now, UMass would be a different story.

If the ACC gets ransacked like the PAC did, it's very likely that the remnants could be BC, Wake, Duke, GT and quite possibly Syracuse which along with Stanford and Cal would form the basis of some academic first league. That's the only possible explanation I can come up with to justify adding Cal and Stanford. That certainly aren't "accretive", that's for sure.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Adding Stanford and Cal to the ACC is a terrible idea. According to NCAA rules, you can not separate revenue sports from non-revenue sports and put them in different conferences. Thus, by adding 2 Western teams, travel costs for all sports would go up considerably. It would be a bigger problem for Stanford and Cal. Would ACC payouts go up to compensate for the additional travel? Probably not. And, what do they bring to the party?

Agreed. Smells of desperation.

 

[ECE '76]

Cal and Stanford are BC 3000 miles away they add absolutely nothing.

Stanford football is NOT BC football. Yes, they are down right now, but they've just come off about 15 seasons of excellence - better than anyone in the ACC save Clemson and FSU. They've been so close to making the CFB playoffs in some of those years. Maybe they will never get it back, but they were regularly beating USC, ND, and Oregon over that time, and putting lots of players into the NFL: Andrew Luck, Zach Ertz, Christian McCaffrey, Bryce Love, Coby Fleener, Richard Sherman, Trent Edwards... they've had 4 to 5 to 6 players drafted in many of those years - no comparison to BC.

 

[ECE '76]

If the ACC wouldn't take Hopkins for LAX only, they're not taking a west coast school as a football only.

I never heard that about Hopkins, BUT THE ACC ALREADY HAS ND FOR ALL SPORTS EXCEPT FOOTBALL. I always thought Hopkins went to the B1G to be part of the B1G academic consortium.

 

[tep624]

Adding Stanford and Cal to the ACC is a terrible idea. According to NCAA rules, you can not separate revenue sports from non-revenue sports and put them in different conferences. Thus, by adding 2 Western teams, travel costs for all sports would go up considerably. It would be a bigger problem for Stanford and Cal. Would ACC payouts go up to compensate for the additional travel? Probably not. And, what do they bring to the party?

You can’t just add those 2. You have to add more than that. And outside of San Diego St. I don’t know what “more than that” there is. UNLV is intriguing though, since Vegas is blowing up sports wise lately.

 

[Toga]

What doesn’t make sense is Notre Dame is already in the ACC for football playing almost 50 percent of their schedule in conference what’s the difference if they added thre more league games? They still can play four other teams outside of the league like everyone else does anyways. Notre Dame makes no sense

Just sit tight. It will be explained to us.

 

[ECE '76]

Adding Stanford and Cal to the ACC is a terrible idea. According to NCAA rules, you can not separate revenue sports from non-revenue sports and put them in different conferences. Thus, by adding 2 Western teams, travel costs for all sports would go up considerably. It would be a bigger problem for Stanford and Cal. Would ACC payouts go up to compensate for the additional travel? Probably not. And, what do they bring to the party?

So all their sports but football would have to be independent? That makes it hard to get into the NCAA tournaments as an at large only. But they would have little trouble scheduling their non-FB sports against old Pac12 members or other regional colleges. Also, maybe it would make sense to have them in the ACC for mens basketball and baseball.

What they bring is late night football programming for the ACC, the very same thing the B1G is bragging about now. One of those schools could be playing at home almost every Saturday night of the season.