ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment

[TheCusian]

And so it begins

 

[WoadBlue]

They’re our Rutgers without the Shi…. stadium and I like it. Baked in conference win for everyone. Makes year end records look better than they are in conference play.

It has not been that long since Stanford was winning the Pac and Major bowls. The key for Stanford in bothy revenue sports now is to have major money form boosters for major NIL. If Stanford boosters get fired up by SMU boosters doing this, then Stanford will have big bucks in NIL and that will draw many top players.

 

[PonyFanscom]

FWIW, the $50mm single donation for the Garry Weber Endzone Complex was part of a $100mm expansion of the stadium, which is part of a $250mm allocation to "develop and enhance championship-caliber athletic facilities across campus". All of that is part of SMU's $1.5B "Ignited" campaign. The $250mm for athletics is the small part; the large majority being spent on student programs, teaching and research and technology. Reading between the lines, the Ignited campaign is about propelling SMU to R1 status within the next few years,

Garry Weber End Zone Complex

www.smu.edu

SMU Ignited

Our campaign for impact.

www.smu.edu

 

[WoadBlue]

That is correct. Garry Weber End Zone Complex. Mr. Weber donated 50 towards the $100mm expansion, which is part of a $1.5B campaign, of which $250mm is set aside to "enhance championship-caliber athletic facilities across campus." The exterior of the GWEZC looks to be about 75% complete as of last weekend's game, although I think the actual completion is about a year away. Garry Weber End Zone Complex

Any of that money going to start up a lacrosse program? Football is required for the big money, and basketball is then the other revenue sport. But lacrosse is the sport that most screams Elite school.

 

[Hoo's That]

How would this work when schedules are contracted up to 10 years out?

Easily bought out. Most, if not all, ACC schools are going to need to buy out a game in the 2024 season because the scheduling system projected by many will be 2-7-7. For UVa, the Coastal Carolina game will be axed since our other OOC games are home games vs. Richmond and Maryland, and @ ND.

 

[Hoo's That]

Any of that money going to start up a lacrosse program? Football is required for the big money, and basketball is then the other revenue sport. But lacrosse is the sport that most screams Elite school.

Depends on how they stand WRT Title IX. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they start a women's program. If they don't start a men's program at the same time, they probably won't ever. UVa had 3 front line players from Texas (2 from Dallas, 1 from Houston), so the talent is there to eventually be competitive.

 

[PonyFanscom]

We have an elite club Lacrosse team. In fact someone said they had won some club level championships recently. I don't know what kind of attendance Lacrosse pulls, but we have a nice facility (Crum Lacrosse and Sports Field) for it.

Sport Clubs

www.smu.edu

SMU Dedicates Crum Lacrosse Field

February 24th, 2016 - Mustangs have premium new complex

mcla.us

 

[TexanMark]

We have an elite club Lacrosse team. In fact someone said they had won some club level championships recently. I don't know what kind of attendance Lacrosse pulls, but we have a nice facility (Crum Lacrosse and Sports Field) for it.

Sport Clubs

www.smu.edu

SMU Dedicates Crum Lacrosse Field

February 24th, 2016 - Mustangs have premium new complex

mcla.us

Men's lacrosse at SMU could draw several thousand a game. Like Syracuse you have no baseball program, right?

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Easily bought out. Most, if not all, ACC schools are going to need to buy out a game in the 2024 season because the scheduling system projected by many will be 2-7-7. For UVa, the Coastal Carolina game will be axed since our other OOC games are home games vs. Richmond and Maryland, and @ ND.

2-7-7 is not possible unless you count the Notre Dame games as conference games for the ACC FB schools. An odd number of teams cannot play an odd number of conference games mathematically.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Still kind of crazy that this is our 11th season in the ACC yet we have not seen GA Tech in the Dome (doors were closed) and Miami hasn't come up here yet at all. Will be interesting to see if we get either next year. We might end up playing ACC SMU more times than ACC Miami despite being 12 years in the same conference as Miami.


ACC Dome games:

7 - BC, Wake (both had one with no fans)
6 - Clemson
5 - Pitt, NC State (one without fans)
4- FSU, Louisville
2 - Duke (one without fans)
1 - GA Tech (no fans), UNC, UVA, VA Tech
0 - Miami


We have seen Wagner more than half of the ACC teams the last 11 seasons.

 

[sutomcat]

Easily bought out. Most, if not all, ACC schools are going to need to buy out a game in the 2024 season because the scheduling system projected by many will be 2-7-7. For UVa, the Coastal Carolina game will be axed since our other OOC games are home games vs. Richmond and Maryland, and @ ND.

Interesting you are hearing 2-7-7 is likely.

To me, it is the ideal solution but wow, losing an OOC game is going to make Clemson, FSU, Louisville and Georgia Tech unhappy.

I guess half of them are already about as unhappy as they can be so what is the problem with a little more disappointment?

An extra conference game will result in more losses for the conference overall. It will lead to less probability of multiple conference teams in the playoffs and less chance for some ACC teams to make major bowls.

Hopefully ESPN pays more for more conference games.

The biggest pro here is that each team plays every other team in the league at least once every 2 years. You need at least 2 rivalry games to guarantee the three western schools play each other every year, which reduces travel for everyone. So it is a good compromise that reduces travel in a meaningful way but ensures an athlete playing in the ACC for four years plays every conference school at least twice, presumably one at home and one on the road.

It will be interesting to see what the new scheduling model is and when it will be announced. The 2024 football season is less than a year away and travel plans need to be made ASAP. I would imagine they have to commit to a model and make an announcement at least by the end of the regular season. Hopefully earlier.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Interesting you are hearing 2-7-7 is likely.

To me, it is the ideal solution but wow, losing an OOC game is going to make Clemson, FSU, Louisville and Georgia Tech unhappy.

I guess half of them are already about as unhappy as they can be so what is the problem with a little more disappointment?

An extra conference game will result in more losses for the conference overall. It will lead to less probability of multiple conference teams in the playoffs and less chance for some ACC teams to make major bowls.

Hopefully ESPN pays more for more conference games.

The biggest pro here is that each team plays every other team in the league at least once every 2 years. You need at least 2 rivalry games to guarantee the three western schools play each other every year, which reduces travel for everyone. So it is a good compromise that reduces travel in a meaningful way but ensures an athlete playing in the ACC for four years plays every conference school at least twice, presumably one at home and one on the road.

It will be interesting to see what the new scheduling model is and when it will be announced. The 2024 football season is less than a year away and travel plans need to be made ASAP. I would imagine they have to commit to a model and make an announcement at least by the end of the regular season. Hopefully earlier.

1. There is no reason to go to 9 ACC games unless ESPN pays, which I doubt they will.

2. If you have 17 teams playing 9 games that is 76.5 conference games. You cannot have half of a game. So does one team get left out and only plays 8 games? Do you let Clemson, FSU, and one of GA Tech/Louisville only play 8? Do you have only 8 conference games for the 5 teams playing ND? In every case 2 x 7/7 is not possible.

 

[sutomcat]

1. There is no reason to go to 9 ACC games unless ESPN pays, which I doubt they will.

2. If you have 17 teams playing 9 games that is 76.5 conference games. You cannot have half of a game. So does one team get left out and only plays 8 games? Do you let Clemson, FSU, and one of GA Tech/Louisville only play 8? Do you have only 8 conference games for the 5 teams playing ND? In every case 2 x 7/7 is not possible.

It is possible but problematic. They certainly could do a schedule for 17 years where each school plays 8 conference games once.

Thinking UVa insiders are more likely tapped into what is happening behind the scenes but maybe not.

I bet if they rotate the schools one by one that have an 8 game schedule the 4 ACC schools with SEC rivalry games get the first four slots.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Looks like our Army game next year will be safe. Rumors are they are looking at 2025 at the earliest to join the AAC, but there is a CBS TV issue which might come into play.

That being said wouldn't Army, Navy, and Air Force be better off as Indy? There will be plenty of demand from P4s to play those schools OOC. Out West there aren't many schools, and schools from the East generally do not want to go out West. So Air Force would have plenty of suitors.

If you can convince a few others to follow, even better. It is not like the AAC, MWC, or other G5s pay much money.

Army/Navy Patriot
UConn Big East
Temple/UMass A10 (where Temple belongs)
JMU Colonial (where they belong)
Air Force West Coast Conference (replaces BYU)

If they all agree to play each other then they only need 5 FBS games to schedule each year (assuming an FCS game). So they can play three P4s and two G5s, which is better than any schedule they would have in a conference while also not over scheduling.

 

[TexanMark]

Maybe ask UConn in for all sports but FB? 4 of their FB games can play against 5 of ND's as a ghost 18th team

Just spitballin...would that make the FB math any better?

Ofcourse now at 19 BB teams...shoot might as well invite Georgetown for 20.

And the NBE was thought to be too big. lol

 

[HRE Otto IV]

It is possible but problematic. They certainly could do a schedule for 17 years where each school plays 8 conference games once.

Thinking UVa insiders are more likely tapped into what is happening behind the scenes but maybe not.

I bet if they rotate the schools one by one that have an 8 game schedule the 4 ACC schools with SEC rivalry games get the first four slots.

It is still not technically 2 x 7/7. Instead it is 2+ which means over 17 years you play 2 teams yearly, 6 teams 9 times, and 8 teams 8 times. Pretty messy.

If it is not clean why have 2 perm vs 4 perm? 4 perms works out better with 9 conference games. At 4 perms over 17 years you play 4 teams yearly, and 12 teams 7 times. That is a lot easier for the schedule makers, you play everyone evenly (vs some 9x and some 8x), and keeps all of the historical games. It is also 1-2 less Western trips for the current ACC schools.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Actually none of this works. If two perms don't play each other then both are at 8 games. Having 17 in FB is a real PIA for 9 games.


This would be a little cleaner:

7 teams you play one year
7 teams you play the other year
1 team you play every year
1 team you play 16 out of 17 years (don't play the year you have 8 games)

Or to put it another way over 34 years you play 1 team 34x, 1 team 32x, and 14 teams 17 times.

 

[WoadBlue]

We have an elite club Lacrosse team. In fact someone said they had won some club level championships recently. I don't know what kind of attendance Lacrosse pulls, but we have a nice facility (Crum Lacrosse and Sports Field) for it.

Sport Clubs

www.smu.edu

SMU Dedicates Crum Lacrosse Field

February 24th, 2016 - Mustangs have premium new complex

mcla.us

When you think of lacrosse, you think of these schools: Syracuse, Johns Hopkins, the Ivy League, UVA, UNC, Dook, Notre Dame, Maryland. SMU wants to be in that elite college sports club. It is worth the investment.

 

[Hoo's That]

When you think of lacrosse, you think of these schools: Syracuse, Johns Hopkins, the Ivy League, UVA, UNC, Dook, Notre Dame, Maryland. SMU wants to be in that elite college sports club. It is worth the investment.

There are a bunch of good players in Texas. Highland Park HS is a strong program. I would imagine there are "more than just a couple" of former Highland Park students at SMU.

 

[atom58]

And so it begins. It may be a joke to say that FSU and Clemson voted against SMU because they were afraid of having competition for the conference championship. But then again, it may not be.

I think it is a joke too that FSU talks about "continued excellence" given their recent past - are they confusing themselves with Georgia? When did they win two consecutive titles?

I saw this recently:

North Carolina AD Bubba Cunningham slams FSU for ‘barking’ about leaving ACC

North Carolina athletic director Bubba Cunningham wasn’t happy about the rhetoric coming out of Florida State over the ACC’s media rights deal.

nypost.com

The UNC AD is basically telling that BOT guy down there to shut up. UNC is still a big dog in this conference and would be a smaller fish with less history elsewhere. If the ACC thrives ($$$), I think they (and Clemson) will stay as it is easier to "run the table" here. That is one reason FSU joined but the ACC teams are not "creampuffs" as a friend of mine from Maryland told me back in 1990.

I notice the changes in the Big 12 and Pac 12 did not occur until the GOR was nearing an end. The SEC does not have a GOR making it easy for anyone there to leave in the future - maybe that was a factor for Texas too as opposed to signing another GOR with the Big 12.

 

[Orangefizz]

FWIW, the $50mm single donation for the Garry Weber Endzone Complex was part of a $100mm expansion of the stadium, which is part of a $250mm allocation to "develop and enhance championship-caliber athletic facilities across campus". All of that is part of SMU's $1.5B "Ignited" campaign. The $250mm for athletics is the small part; the large majority being spent on student programs, teaching and research and technology. Reading between the lines, the Ignited campaign is about propelling SMU to R1 status within the next few years,

Garry Weber End Zone Complex

www.smu.edu

SMU Ignited

Our campaign for impact.

www.smu.edu

My son is applying to SMU law school this fall

 

[WoadBlue]

There are a bunch of good players in Texas. Highland Park HS is a strong program. I would imagine there are "more than just a couple" of former Highland Park students at SMU.

Several years ago, I started seeing TX players on various rosters of top ranked lacrosse teams. If SMU were to convert its club lacrosse to ACC lacrosse, it could have a competitive team at least from Year 2 - assuming the coach is up to snuff. SMU would find top players not just in TX, but also all over the southwest and even across the Mississippi. Now tight is decent HS lacrosse in the Kansas City area and St Louis area, and Memphis area, and nary a D1 program near. Most of those schools are private or more elite public schools. SMU could sign a whole bunch of those kids and build a winner, and help spread lacrosse even more.

 

[All4SU]

I know that football drives the bus, and hoops is great, but I’d like to see the ACC absolutely own lacrosse and soccer. I don’t give a hoot about baseball or hockey.

 

[Hoo's That]

Several years ago, I started seeing TX players on various rosters of top ranked lacrosse teams. If SMU were to convert its club lacrosse to ACC lacrosse, it could have a competitive team at least from Year 2 - assuming the coach is up to snuff. SMU would find top players not just in TX, but also all over the southwest and even across the Mississippi. Now tight is decent HS lacrosse in the Kansas City area and St Louis area, and Memphis area, and nary a D1 program near. Most of those schools are private or more elite public schools. SMU could sign a whole bunch of those kids and build a winner, and help spread lacrosse even more.

Just checked. SMU is 51% male, 49% female students, the reverse of a lot of other schools. That stat would definitely help.

 

[CuseLegacy]

Men's lacrosse at SMU could draw several thousand a game. Like Syracuse you have no baseball program, right?

No Baseball or Softball...but they have Equestrian.