ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment

[Toga]

Minnesota State just sitting there for the taking.

 

[Atlcuse44]

They aren't holding all the cards at all. Every other conference can refuse to schedule them. Have fun playing each other's conferences SEC and BIG10. We won't lose any viewers taking you off the schedule, but your programs sure as hell won't be happy with the same schedule every year.

I don't think they really care about scheduling teams from outside their conferences. Say they end up at 40 or so teams (20 each for SEC and BIG). Basically they have a NFL model. They do hold the cards,. I hate to say it but we don't matter to them.

 

[Atlcuse44]

To add to my previous post, there may be pressure (from ESPN, FOX, whomever) for the SEC and BIG to drop their dead weight for TV purposes if they form their own league. Looking at you Vandy, Miss St, Rutgers, Purdue, etc... That would be interesting, would they drop schools who have been in the league for decades? Probably ($$$$)

 

[Stern]

They aren't holding all the cards at all. Every other conference can refuse to schedule them. Have fun playing each other's conferences SEC and BIG10. We won't lose any viewers taking you off the schedule, but your programs sure as hell won't be happy with the same schedule every year.

They don't want to play schools in other conferences. That's the point. They want to play each other, and NOT share the money with anyone.

 

[Stern]

To add to my previous post, there may be pressure (from ESPN, FOX, whomever) for the SEC and BIG to drop their dead weight for TV purposes if they form their own league. Looking at you Vandy, Miss St, Rutgers, Purdue, etc... That would be interesting, would they drop schools who have been in the league for decades? Probably ($$$$)

They won't drop any schools they will only add to get to the optimum number (whatever it ends up being) where they have enough so everyone can schedule a full slate each year, and the slice of the pie each school gets is big enough to keep everyone happy.

 

[Jcuse_44]

They don't want to play schools in other conferences. That's the point. They want to play each other, and NOT share the money with anyone.

Im fine with never playing those schools again. Let's form another league. It can be like all the euro soccer leagues. Eventually teams like Penn st and anyone outside of the typical top 3 in SEC and BIG 10 will want to leave because they won't win games.

 

[Stern]

Im fine with never playing those schools again. Let's form another league. It can be like all the euro soccer leagues. Eventually teams like Penn st and anyone outside of the typical top 3 in SEC and BIG 10 will want to leave because they won't win games.

Penn St isn't going to leave and walk away from that money. Plus they have a 100,000+ seat stadium to fill, they aren't going to want to stop playing Ohio St, Michigan, USC to schedule 6 or 7 home games vs the Eastern Michigan's and Toledo's of the world where their best home game is vs Boston College or Syracuse.

If you think SU splitting away from the ACC or whatever is left of it, and Syracuse fans are going to fill the Dome to watch SU vs Akron I don't think that is a rational take. Speaking for myself, I would never go to the games and I wouldn't even watch SU on TV at that point. And yes, I would be home watching Big 10 and SEC games.

I think there are a few safe assumptions that fans are missing.

1) These schools care far less about wins/losses than fans do, its all about getting that big fat TV money paycheck from the conference. Winning or losing is a small part in the overall big picture of what these schools think about in regards to conference realignment and such.

2) No school is going to openly leave the Big 10 or SEC and those conferences aren't throwing any schools out. Not happening.

3) If you think the SEC/Big10 splitting away will "hurt" TV ratings or viewership and fans will stop watching, that is a bit naive. Fans watch what is plastered in front of their faces. So if ABC/ESPN, FOX, CBS, and NBC are carrying those schools and games in the prime TV time slots...people will watch. Plus those games will get all of the coverage and hype Monday thru Friday in the lead up to each Saturday.


I understand where college sports, specifically college football is going. I don't like it. I know Syracuse will probably be left behind at some point in the near future and that isn't good for us Syracuse fans. But let's have some perspective here.

 

[Jcuse_44]

Penn St isn't going to leave and walk away from that money. Plus they have a 100,000+ seat stadium to fill, they aren't going to want to stop playing Ohio St, Michigan, USC to schedule 6 or 7 home games vs the Eastern Michigan's and Toledo's of the world where their best home game is vs Boston College or Syracuse.

If you think SU splitting away from the ACC or whatever is left of it, and Syracuse fans are going to fill the Dome to watch SU vs Akron I don't think that is a rational take. Speaking for myself, I would never go to the games and I wouldn't even watch SU on TV at that point. And yes, I would be home watching Big 10 and SEC games.

I think there are a few safe assumptions that fans are missing.

1) These schools care far less about wins/losses than fans do, its all about getting that big fat TV money paycheck from the conference. Winning or losing is a small part in the overall big picture of what these schools think about in regards to conference realignment and such.

2) No school is going to openly leave the Big 10 or SEC and those conferences aren't throwing any schools out. Not happening.

3) If you think the SEC/Big10 splitting away will "hurt" TV ratings or viewership and fans will stop watching, that is a bit naive. Fans watch what is plastered in front of their faces. So if ABC/ESPN, FOX, CBS, and NBC are carrying those schools and games in the prime TV time slots...people will watch. Plus those games will get all of the coverage and hype Monday thru Friday in the lead up to each Saturday.


I understand where college sports, specifically college football is going. I don't like it. I know Syracuse will probably be left behind at some point in the near future and that isn't good for us Syracuse fans. But let's have some perspective here.

Agree to disagree. If you think the nation wants to watch the same 15 teams and nothing else you are crazy. There are plenty of great programs outside of those two conferences that aren't Toledo and Akron.

 

[TheCusian]

NY native and Syracuse grad Greg Sankey is uniquely evil.


With ever-changing conference lineups, a complicated web of state laws governing NIL and transfer rules that vary by league, many fans, coaches, athletic directors and media members have called for some sense of top-down order in college football. For some, that could possibly come in the form of a "college football commissioner" who could wield power and settle disputes between schools and conferences.

SEC commissioner Greg Sankey is not one of those people.

During an appearance on the Triple Option podcast, Sankey said centralizing power in college football would only be an attempt by the the rest of the sport to catch up with the SEC.

"I've studied it a little bit and I come back to, I don't want to dumb down the Southeastern Conference to be a part of some super league notion with 70 teams that some people speculate would happen," Sankey said. "They want to be us and that's on them to figure it out, not on me to bring myself back to earth."

When faced w the opportunity to make the sport work better for everyone, ensuring its national place, SEC chooses greed

 

[Hoo's That]

I just don't think you can take a hard line on 60, 64, 70 or whatever the number of teams is. There should be a mechanism to promote/demote X # or X% of teams every year to the super conference.

Fixed football conferences/divisions based on geography are dead.

Football divisions should have a couple of each tier (Kings, Barons, Knights, Peasants) loosely based on geography.

it's about the match ups for TV

hey FSU, you're a Peasant

Please take these promotion/demotion schemes to an outside-the-US pro soccer discussion where they belong. US fans will not support them. Curse you Ted Lasso for all this.

 

[Hoo's That]

Please take these promotion/demotion schemes to an outside-the-US pro soccer discussion where they belong. US fans will not support them. Curse you Ted Lasso for all this.

I'm really not kidding about Ted Lasso, orange79 . That show has legitimated the previously alien concept of promotion and relegation in the eyes of people outside the soccer world. It moved it from a niche into the mainstream. How many people on an American football board would be, not just accepting it, but actually advocating it without that show's pointing it out?

 

[OHIORANGES]

Agree to disagree. If you think the nation wants to watch the same 15 teams and nothing else you are crazy. There are plenty of great programs outside of those two conferences that aren't Toledo and Akron.

It won’t be 15 teams
It will be 40 teams and yes, that’s what fans will want to see

 

[longtimefan]

It won’t be 15 teams
It will be 40 teams and yes, that’s what fans will want to see

But a significant portion of the 40 will seldom, if ever, compete for a championship.

 

[pokercuse08]

Agree to disagree. If you think the nation wants to watch the same 15 teams and nothing else you are crazy. There are plenty of great programs outside of those two conferences that aren't Toledo and Akron.

The ratings and the money say they do. I think eventually there will be some discontent when the evolution to that model is complete, but it's not going to be schools like Penn State leaving the superconference/P2, it's going to be schools like Rutgers, Vandy, etc.

And it's not the same 15 teams, it's currently 34 and growing. In other words, a few more teams than the pro sports leagues.

 

[Jcuse_44]

It won’t be 15 teams
It will be 40 teams and yes, that’s what fans will want to see

Fans of those 40 teams sure.

 

[WoadBlue]

They don't want to play schools in other conferences. That's the point. They want to play each other, and NOT share the money with anyone.

That is THE purpose. Follow the money. Is there any money in 1AA/FCS playoffs? Nope. The SEC and BT assume the same will happen once they get all they want in terms of members: whatever is left may have exciting football, but it will generate very little if any money.

The reality is that only the ACC has any chance to remain Major and make certain that least 3 leagues are such, meaning probably 60 or more total members rather than perhaps as few as 40.

 

[Stern]

But a significant portion of the 40 will seldom, if ever, compete for a championship.

but again, fans care more about that than the schools. The schools just want the paychecks from the TV networks, if they come in 5th place, they are OK with that.

It's a business, and if ya win great. If not, try again next year. But the money being constant is all that matters.

School Presidents and ADs don't think like fans. They think Money first, money second, and money third. Winning isn't part of the equation

 

[HtownOrange]

but again, fans care more about that than the schools. The schools just want the paychecks from the TV networks, if they come in 5th place, they are OK with that.

It's a business, and if ya win great. If not, try again next year. But the money being constant is all that matters.

School Presidents and ADs don't think like fans. They think Money first, money second, and money third. Winning isn't part of the equation

Your point is well put and essentially true. The caveat is that the big money donors to many of the historically storied schools will dry up if they don't get championships. I see this close up with UT, TAMU, OU, LSU, Arkansas and several other Big 12 and SEC teams within driving distance. Donations, initially to athletics and then the academic side, dry up until changes are made to address the losing. This has happened many times and these donations can be much larger that the TV revenue. It is an interesting dance to watch here in Texas; who flinches first - the school admin or the mega dollar donors.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

The reason the NFL can work is that the NFL itself is the brand. It doesn't need a specific team to carry the league. Sure some will help ratings more than others. But at the same time the Cowboys can not make the NFC CG in nearly 30 years and then league doesn't miss a beat.

In CFB the schools are the brands. Maybe you can argue the SEC itself is a brand, but IMO it alone doesn't carry the weight. So if some of these brands are no longer successful every year, the product takes a big hit. Especially given the limited regional coverage in a Super League.

On top of that people will have allegiances to teams outside the league. There will be competition for eyeballs. If the USFL moved to the fall people will ignore it. Won't be the same with CFB.

 

[qdawgg]

Fans of those 40 teams sure.

Yeah exactly. Look at the NFL with their 100+ teams. Nobodies going to want to watch a CFB league where there’s only 40 teams……

 

[Jcuse_44]

Yeah exactly. Look at the NFL with their 100+ teams. Nobodies going to want to watch a CFB league where there’s only 40 teams……

Again... good luck getting fans of other teams to watch those teams if their team of choice is playing elsewhere.

 

[Stern]

Again... good luck getting fans of other teams to watch those teams if their team of choice is playing elsewhere.

As long as FanDuel and DraftKings still let you bet from your phone, fans of other teams will watch...lol

 

[Hoo's That]

As long as FanDuel and DraftKings still let you bet from your phone, fans of other teams will watch...lol

More than one write has posited that without gambling the NFL would have died off.

 

[Newhouser]

To add to my previous post, there may be pressure (from ESPN, FOX, whomever) for the SEC and BIG to drop their dead weight for TV purposes if they form their own league. Looking at you Vandy, Miss St, Rutgers, Purdue, etc... That would be interesting, would they drop schools who have been in the league for decades? Probably ($$$$)

I think that is when it gets interesting - when they tell Vandy and Northwestern and the like - he we love you but you are out. It's going to happen. Either they will set a budget limit for football or some other requirement that will drive the lesser programs out.

 

[Stern]

More than one write has posited that without gambling the NFL would have died off.

Died off is a bit strong but less popular for sure. Which is why college football won't "be damaged" if the big boys split away from the small schools