ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment

[SmilinBob]

It means iconic teams playing in historic venues with grade A television production will get eyeballs

True but for me, when we had the Robinson years I lost a lot of interest watching college football because SU wasn't competitive.

If SU's not in this I won't have a problem doing something else, again that's me and how this would turn me off of the sport. I can't project how others will feel and to be honest that's not my job like it is the networks or whoever does the broadcasting of the games.

 

[oldpinepoint]

True but for me, when we had the Robinson years I lost a lot of interest watching college football because SU wasn't competitive.

If SU's not in this I won't have a problem doing something else, again that's me and how this would turn me off of the sport. I can't project how others will feel and to be honest that's not my job like it is the networks or whoever does the broadcasting of the games.

Same

 

[Dcuse]

True but for me, when we had the Robinson years I lost a lot of interest watching college football because SU wasn't competitive.

If SU's not in this I won't have a problem doing something else, again that's me and how this would turn me off of the sport. I can't project how others will feel and to be honest that's not my job like it is the networks or whoever does the broadcasting of the games.

Same.

 

[Scooch]

And this is why at some point the SEC and B1G will raid the ACC and B12 for whatever value is there. They'll divvy up UNC, UVA, Miami, FSU, Clemson, GaTech, the Arizonas, Utah, Colorado, etc.

Then there will be two, ~24 school, power conferences. Which is enough fanbase and geographic coverage to maintain ratings and subscriptions.
Whomever is left over will congeal into a 1/2 power conference.

 

[Dcuse]

And this is why at some point the SEC and B1G will raid the ACC and B12 for whatever value is there. They'll divvy up UNC, UVA, Miami, FSU, Clemson, GaTech, the Arizonas, Utah, Colorado, etc.

Then there will be two, ~24 school, power conferences. Which is enough fanbase and geographic coverage to maintain ratings and subscriptions.
Whomever is left over will congeal into a 1/2 power conference.

Just about the most grim post on the subject I've seen. Ga Tech ahead of us. This would make me quit sports all together.

 

[DocFlanders]

Just about the most grim post on the subject I've seen. Ga Tech ahead of us. This would make me quit sports all together.

Yeah there will be more than a few good schools left on the outside looking in, more than just us for sure

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I still think 30 teams works best (although we could get left out from that).

Big Ten and SEC would consist of 6 team divisions and play 10 conference games. So you play regional rivals yearly and lose no games from the old setups.


B1G...

PAC 8 division- currently they have USC, UCLA, Washington, Oregon. IMO Stanford would make the most sense but you could argue Cal instead.

Big 8/WAC division- currently they have Nebraska. Potential fits are Kansas, Colorado, Iowa State, Arizona, Arizona State, Utah.

B1G West division- Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Illinois, Northwestern

B1G East division- Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Indiana

Eastern Indy division- currently they have Penn State and Rutgers (although you could argue having Maryland here). Notre Dame would fit. Then potentially Syracuse, BC, Pitt, UConn.

ACC division- currently they have Maryland. Potential fits FSU, Miami, GA Tech, Clemson, UNC, Duke, NC State, UVA, Virginia Tech.


SEC...

MWC/WAC division- potential fits Fresno State, San Diego State, UNLV, BYU, Utah, Colorado State, Boise State, Arizona, Arizona State, Cal.

Big 8 division- they already have Oklahoma and Missouri. Potential fits Colorado, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Iowa State.

SWC division- they already have Texas, A&M, and Arkansas. Potential fits Houston, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, SMU.

SEC West division- LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn.

SEC East division- Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Kentucky.

ACC division- they already have South Carolina. Potential fits FSU, Miami, Clemson, GA Tech, UNC, NC State, Duke, UVA, VA Tech, Louisville.


P5s with no shot- Wake, Oregon State, Washington State, West Virginia, Cincinnati, UCF.

States with no shot- Delaware, West Virginia, New Mexico, Wyoming, Hawaii.


I suppose you could include a third 30 team conference and have the 90 teams break away. Then you can include every state but Hawaii.

Leftover conference...

Two PAC/MWC/WAC divisions- potentially Oregon State, Washington State, Cal or Stanford, Fresno State, Boise State, Colorado State, San Jose State, Nevada, Utah State, Wyoming, Air Force, New Mexico.

Big 12 division- potentially Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Iowa State, Houston, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, SMU

Big East division- potentially West Virginia, Pitt, Cincinnati, USF, UCF, Temple, Louisville, BC, SU, UConn.

ACC/AAC division- potentially Wake, Duke, USF, UCF, ECU, Tulane, Memphis, FAU, Army, Navy, Delaware

Division of leftover leftovers- whatever makes sense from the above teams. Most likely a Big East/ACC/AAC grouping.


If you did go to 90 then you can have your conference playoffs consisting of the 6 division champs and four wildcards (10 of 30). Then have a national playoff with the 3 conference champs and two wildcards (5 of 90). That is a ton of playoffs, but playoffs is where the $ is made.

 

[Dcuse]

Yeah there will be more than a few good schools left on the outside looking in, more than just us for sure

We're definitely on the outside looking in? Is your source Scooch?

 

[TexanMark]

Just about the most grim post on the subject I've seen. Ga Tech ahead of us. This would make me quit sports all together.

I would imagine we would be selected ahead of GaTech.

 

[kcsu]

I would imagine we would be selected ahead of GaTech.

dont

 

[DocFlanders]

We're definitely on the outside looking in? Is your source Scooch?

No just don't think we make the cut if the final result is the Big 10 /SEC merger with a few other schools picked to round it out.

 

[kcsu]

Syracuse has a chance because of NYS. Plus there will be a need for eastern teams. I can see Pitt SU and BC all getting in.

 

[DocFlanders]

Syracuse has a chance because of NYS. Plus there will be a need for eastern teams. I can see Pitt SU and BC all getting in.

That would be delightful, hope I'm wrong for sure

 

[oldpinepoint]

Syracuse has a chance because of NYS. Plus there will be a need for eastern teams. I can see Pitt SU and BC all getting in.

JW and others knows this, hence the investment in football. We need to get good in a hurry and be consistent. Eyeballs and perception is what will save us

 

[WoadBlue]

Just about the most grim post on the subject I've seen. Ga Tech ahead of us. This would make me quit sports all together.

Location, location, location. For football, football, football. Atlanta for football, HS and college, is simply much better location than upstate NY or NYC.

What can make up for location that is less than for football is proven winning and TV drawing power.

 

[Crusty]

Syracuse has a chance because of NYS. Plus there will be a need for eastern teams. I can see Pitt SU and BC all getting in.

Hope you're right but living in the South makes me skeptical. They NEVER watch games between NE teams. No votes here.

 

[shantydaze]

Location, location, location. For football, football, football. Atlanta for football, HS and college, is simply much better location than upstate NY or NYC.

What can make up for location that is less than for football is proven winning and TV drawing power.

But does Georgia Tech deliver Atlanta? It is the same type of conversation about Syracuse and NYC. Does NYC actually care about Syracuse due to it being located in the same state? Do they care about Rutgers or UConn as both are closer to the City than Syracuse?

This board seems to vacillate between whether market or brand matters depending on the point that is being made.

 

[NJneer12]

But does Georgia Tech deliver Atlanta? It is the same type of conversation about Syracuse and NYC. Does NYC actually care about Syracuse due to it being located in the same state? Do they care about Rutgers or UConn as both are closer to the City than Syracuse?

This board seems to vacillate between whether market or brand matters depending on the point that is being made.

I mean. GT is properly within Atlanta's city limits.

The bars in the suburbs always had sections for both schools. 10 years ago it was half/half UGA/GT (plus 1 lonely TV in the corner for Syracuse). Probably more UGA now, but GT has a great regional following.

 

[WoadBlue]

Hope you're right but living in the South makes me skeptical. They NEVER watch games between NE teams. No votes here.

That is true - and most of the CFB passion in the Midwest is the same. Just as the northeast itself has seen a steady decline in talent production and of passionate CFB fans since at least the mid-1960s, CFB Fns in the treats of country have stopped caring about CFB played in the northeast, save for teams that seem to them like something other than just northeastern. The mist obvious way to achieve that is to be in conference that is not even half northeastern, so that the majority of game are against teams from elsewhere.

I think the same thing applies to the West. That decline in interest in CFB began later but it has moved quickly the past 30 years. You can even see it with Cal this year. The Miami game was the first full sellout for Cal since the days of Pete Carroll bringing #1 or 2 SC to Berkeley. The game also had very big TV numbers for any Cal game since Aaron Rogers played and the Bears fans had hopes of a Rose Bowl.

CA, of course, turns out more top talent than do PA, NJ, NY, and all New England combined, and AZ, OR, and even NV now turn out more talent than they ever have. So all this means that Cal in the ACC can have a better shot to rebuild towards past glory days than it could if the Pac had survived.

And all that is the reason that I am big on the ACC forgiving how to land Utah, Arizona, and AZ St. The only way any of that can happen is if the ACC is backed by some kind of major financing ala The Rudy Project. It seems clear that BT and SEC will refuse anything to do with either The Rudy Project of the College Student Football league. Those 2 intend to drive everyone else out of business as Major conferences able to compete with them at all. They do not care about the game, just all its money and all its glory and titles.

What of instead do giving up those people wanting to save the game as being for more than just 2 leagues decide that it is better top make certain there are 3 Major conferences left standing than just 2? The ought to be an easier sell than just them giving up, or than them thinking they can act without the BT and SEC and still save both ACC and Big 12 and perhaps a couple other schools to be able to compete fully with BT and ACC.

This form Big 12 is lesser than the ACC in terms of Name Brands for revenue sports, so the obvious pick to save one is the ACC. But making it worthwhile to save will require making it larger, starting with MST schools.

It could be done, but it will take very astute leadership and a lot of patience from everyone involved.

 

[baggerbob]

That is true - and most of the CFB passion in the Midwest is the same. Just as the northeast itself has seen a steady decline in talent production and of passionate CFB fans since at least the mid-1960s, CFB Fns in the treats of country have stopped caring about CFB played in the northeast, save for teams that seem to them like something other than just northeastern. The mist obvious way to achieve that is to be in conference that is not even half northeastern, so that the majority of game are against teams from elsewhere.

I think the same thing applies to the West. That decline in interest in CFB began later but it has moved quickly the past 30 years. You can even see it with Cal this year. The Miami game was the first full sellout for Cal since the days of Pete Carroll bringing #1 or 2 SC to Berkeley. The game also had very big TV numbers for any Cal game since Aaron Rogers played and the Bears fans had hopes of a Rose Bowl.

CA, of course, turns out more top talent than do PA, NJ, NY, and all New England combined, and AZ, OR, and even NV now turn out more talent than they ever have. So all this means that Cal in the ACC can have a better shot to rebuild towards past glory days than it could if the Pac had survived.

And all that is the reason that I am big on the ACC forgiving how to land Utah, Arizona, and AZ St. The only way any of that can happen is if the ACC is backed by some kind of major financing ala The Rudy Project. It seems clear that BT and SEC will refuse anything to do with either The Rudy Project of the College Student Football league. Those 2 intend to drive everyone else out of business as Major conferences able to compete with them at all. They do not care about the game, just all its money and all its glory and titles.

What of instead do giving up those people wanting to save the game as being for more than just 2 leagues decide that it is better top make certain there are 3 Major conferences left standing than just 2? The ought to be an easier sell than just them giving up, or than them thinking they can act without the BT and SEC and still save both ACC and Big 12 and perhaps a couple other schools to be able to compete fully with BT and ACC.

This form Big 12 is lesser than the ACC in terms of Name Brands for revenue sports, so the obvious pick to save one is the ACC. But making it worthwhile to save will require making it larger, starting with MST schools.

It could be done, but it will take very astute leadership and a lot of patience from everyone involved.

Just for a side note, if the SEC, Big and the Networks go through with a 40 team superconference, there will be lawsuits.
And there are 538 congressmen who will effectively have most of their schools shut out.
There is no way that they let that happen. Their would be a lot of investigations from the IRS, and many of the other branches of the Government. The heads of the Networks better not have any emails or papers from people they fired.

 

[oldpinepoint]

Just for a side note, if the SEC, Big and the Networks go through with a 40 team superconference, there will be lawsuits.
And there are 538 congressmen who will effectively have most of their schools shut out.
There is no way that they let that happen. Their would be a lot of investigations from the IRS, and many of the other branches of the Government. The heads of the Networks better not have any emails or papers from people they fired.

Tend to agree with this.

 

[HtownOrange]

Just for a side note, if the SEC, Big and the Networks go through with a 40 team superconference, there will be lawsuits.
And there are 538 congressmen who will effectively have most of their schools shut out.
There is no way that they let that happen. Their would be a lot of investigations from the IRS, and many of the other branches of the Government. The heads of the Networks better not have any emails or papers from people they fired.

That is one of the reasons I believe the south Atlantic and Middle Atlantic states are covered. This for a the highest concentration of the population with Texas and California, already covered, being the outliers. If for no other reason, why tick off so many fans when adding a few more schools ensures ample coverage and all the powerful states are included.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

A "fix" to all of this might be for the NCAA to limit conferences to round robin play. So all conferences need to be a minimum of 8 and max of, I suppose 13 (if you play no OOC).

So what would happen to the B1G and SEC? I don't think they kick anyone out. Instead they can have a Western Conference, Central, and Eastern. They will be separate but under one umbrella for TV and finances.

It would make the most sense for the three to be 10 teams each. You can play your 9 conference games, and have 2 OOC games based on the prior year standings against the other two conferences as part of a scheduling agreement. That leaves 1 OOC game to be scheduled as you wish. So the 1st placed team plays "OOC" vs the first placed teams from the other two conferences.

In the case of the B1G... the OGs are in the Central, Washington/Oregon/USC/UCLA/Nebraska in the West, and Penn State/Maryland/Rutgers in the East. For the SEC the OGs are in the Central, Texas/A&M/Arkansas/Oklahoma/Missouri in the West, and South Carolina in the East. Both would need to get to 30 by adding teams.

As to the playoff if you have 7 conference champ auto bids and 7 at larges, the B1G/SEC likely get 3 autos each (6 total) and then 4-7 of the auto bids. So they could get a baker's dozen out of the 14 bids. Currently the most they can get 11.


The only issue of course is that I think SU gets left out. IMO UVA, UNC, Duke, GA Tech would band together. So adding those 4 to the B1G Eastern Conference leaves only 3 openings. I think BC and Miami get the call. Which leaves one more spot that would be down to Notre Dame or SU. Notre Dame could decide to stay Indy and get an at large. But it would be difficult with no ACC left to park other sports and for FB scheduling.

 

[Orangefizz]

A "fix" to all of this might be for the NCAA to limit conferences to round robin play. So all conferences need to be a minimum of 8 and max of, I suppose 13 (if you play no OOC).

So what would happen to the B1G and SEC? I don't think they kick anyone out. Instead they can have a Western Conference, Central, and Eastern. They will be separate but under one umbrella for TV and finances.

It would make the most sense for the three to be 10 teams each. You can play your 9 conference games, and have 2 OOC games based on the prior year standings against the other two conferences as part of a scheduling agreement. That leaves 1 OOC game to be scheduled as you wish. So the 1st placed team plays "OOC" vs the first placed teams from the other two conferences.

In the case of the B1G... the OGs are in the Central, Washington/Oregon/USC/UCLA/Nebraska in the West, and Penn State/Maryland/Rutgers in the East. For the SEC the OGs are in the Central, Texas/A&M/Arkansas/Oklahoma/Missouri in the West, and South Carolina in the East. Both would need to get to 30 by adding teams.

As to the playoff if you have 7 conference champ auto bids and 7 at larges, the B1G/SEC likely get 3 autos each (6 total) and then 4-7 of the auto bids. So they could get a baker's dozen out of the 14 bids. Currently the most they can get 11.


The only issue of course is that I think SU gets left out. IMO UVA, UNC, Duke, GA Tech would band together. So adding those 4 to the B1G Eastern Conference leaves only 3 openings. I think BC and Miami get the call. Which leaves one more spot that would be down to Notre Dame or SU. Notre Dame could decide to stay Indy and get an at large. But it would be difficult with no ACC left to park other sports and for FB scheduling.

I agree with you; the only way Syracuse gets into the Big 10 is if they expand to 30. I could see Syracuse getting in ahead of BC, with a BIG10 East including ND, PSU, RU, MD, UVA, UNC, DUKE, GT, and MIAMI.

That’s my dream scenario for Syracuse in the Big 10

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I agree with you the only way Syracuse gets into the big 10 is if they expand to 30. I could see Syracuse getting in ahead of Boston College

Possible. But I think the other schools rather go to Boston than CNY. The media market is bigger. And most importantly it entices ND to join.

But if we are going off of athletics, we get the call.



Also there is always a chance the SEC Eastern Conference would be in play under the 3x10. South Carolina, FSU, Clemson, NC State, VA Tech would still need an additional 5 schools from USF (FSU and Florida would be against), UCF (ditto), Louisville, West Virginia, Pitt, Cincinnati, Memphis (would Tennessee oppose?), SU, maybe UConn, maybe Tulane. If the SEC didn't mind going above the Mason-Dixon, we would be a great choice.