ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment

[AcAndAc]

For SU, existing miserably until 2036 and making more money during that span is better than coexisting until 2030 and making less money.

In no way was the ACC ever going to make it past 2036.

Why? What good is money? You think recruits will take us seriously in 2032-2033 when we are just 4 years away from being independent or G5? Why should our admin get to bank money that will never do us or the team any good? What could they possible do with the extra $40M from 2031-2035 to translate into any success beyond 2036?

This talk of money is absurd. Fans have been conned into caring whether their college teams get enough money. Rutgers makes more money than us. Meanwhile, they have to play Norfolk State, East Ohio, Delaware Tech, etc., to get bowl-eligible AND still run an AD deficit allegedly.

If $$$ is all that matters... why don't we just get rid of the football team... have a fundraiser.. and give the money to the school? If we give more money in September 2025 than BC... we win that month. Then we have a fundraising game against Wake in October 2025. November can be SMU. Let's go for 3-0!

 

[orangefog]

Why? What good is money? You think recruits will take us seriously in 2032-2033 when we are just 4 years away from being independent or G5? Why should our admin get to bank money that will never do us or the team any good? What could they possible do with the extra $40M from 2031-2035 to translate into any success beyond 2036?

This talk of money is absurd. Fans have been conned into caring whether their college teams get enough money. Rutgers makes more money than us. Meanwhile, they have to play Norfolk State, East Ohio, Delaware Tech, etc., to get bowl-eligible AND still run an AD deficit allegedly.

If $$$ is all that matters... why don't we just get rid of the football team... have a fundraiser.. and give the money to the school? If we give more money in September 2025 than BC... we win that month. Then we have a fundraising game against Wake in October 2025. November can be SMU. Let's go for 3-0!

I propose a bake sale!!!

 

[oldpinepoint]

I propose a bake sale!!!

How about a bottle/can drive?

 

[Scooch]

Why? What good is money? You think recruits will take us seriously in 2032-2033 when we are just 4 years away from being independent or G5? Why should our admin get to bank money that will never do us or the team any good? What could they possible do with the extra $40M from 2031-2035 to translate into any success beyond 2036?

This talk of money is absurd. Fans have been conned into caring whether their college teams get enough money. Rutgers makes more money than us. Meanwhile, they have to play Norfolk State, East Ohio, Delaware Tech, etc., to get bowl-eligible AND still run an AD deficit allegedly.

If $$$ is all that matters... why don't we just get rid of the football team... have a fundraiser.. and give the money to the school? If we give more money in September 2025 than BC... we win that month. Then we have a fundraising game against Wake in October 2025. November can be SMU. Let's go for 3-0!

College sports fans are idiots who naively decided that the revenue streams of conferences were more important than everything else in the sport.

Look no further than English soccer fans who squashed the Super League because they didn't buy into the idea that making billionaires richer was better than holding the line on the traditions and historical structure of their favorite sport.

Americans just lovvvve to sell out to rich entities. It's uncanny.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Why? What good is money? You think recruits will take us seriously in 2032-2033 when we are just 4 years away from being independent or G5? Why should our admin get to bank money that will never do us or the team any good? What could they possible do with the extra $40M from 2031-2035 to translate into any success beyond 2036?

This talk of money is absurd. Fans have been conned into caring whether their college teams get enough money. Rutgers makes more money than us. Meanwhile, they have to play Norfolk State, East Ohio, Delaware Tech, etc., to get bowl-eligible AND still run an AD deficit allegedly.

If $$$ is all that matters... why don't we just get rid of the football team... have a fundraiser.. and give the money to the school? If we give more money in September 2025 than BC... we win that month. Then we have a fundraising game against Wake in October 2025. November can be SMU. Let's go for 3-0!

LMFAO. You cannot be serious.

You are creating a completely false narrative here. There is no ACC past 2036. Either way (2030 or 2036) there is nothing to look beyond 2036 in the ACC. This agreement does nothing for our long term prospects and hurts us short term.

As to recruits, yes we are better off keeping the major programs here until 2036 vs 2030. It will be easier to recruit to a stronger conference. On top of that we will have more money to pay those players. You really think it will be easier to recruit in 2032 with all the top teams gone? Why would a recruit take us seriously?

We are losing money from 2025-2030. That will hurt our programs. If you didn't need money to compete, then why give Clemson and FSU more money? Money doesn't matter, right?

 

[HRE Otto IV]

College sports fans are idiots who naively decided that the revenue streams of conferences were more important than everything else in the sport.

Look no further than English soccer fans who squashed the Super League because they didn't buy into the idea that making billionaires richer was better than holding the line on the traditions and historical structure of their favorite sport.

Americans just lovvvve to sell out to rich entities. It's uncanny.

I would be perfectly happy going back to the old Big East FB conference replacing Rutgers with UConn, Temple with Nova, and adding Army/Navy to get to 10 teams. Then to get to 10 for BBall have StJ/GTown.

The problem is...

-For FB you need access to the playoff. If that Big East had an auto bid, then we are all good. If not, then you need to be a Top 10 team and that isn't happening consistently without $.

-For BBall the access to the NCAAT is there. But how many bids would the Big East get without $? How far would Big East teams go in the NCAAT without $?

The SEC this year could potentially get 14 of 16 teams in the NCAAT. How did a conference that used to be UK and their little brothers get to be that good? The SEC hasn't won a title since 2012, and that is the only one since 2007. They haven't been to the Title game since 2014. In the last 25 NCAATs they have 3 combined titles. In the last 23 NCAATs they have only been to the title game 4 times. They got to where they are now because of $.

 

[kcsu]

The ACC was set to exist miserably until 2036. The ACC refused unequal revenue sharing. FSU and Clemson called that decision by suing. Once the lawsuit was filed, FSU and Clemson were pretty much announcing that they will never sign another G of R with equal revenue sharing. But without the G of R from those schools, no incentive/benefit/upside for anyone else to sign one either... giving leverage to the B12 to start poaching the middle tier of schools as of 2037.

While FSU/Clemson can leave now or in 2030 or whenever, this at least makes it theoretically possible for the league members to continue to co-exist. FSU could go back to its fans and say that this new deal closes the gap enough to maintain the status quo. This, in turn, ramps up the amounts that the SEC/B1G need to come up with to land FSU/Clemson. No more 50% share, like what Oregon took.

Meanwhile, we will now get better data as to the viewership for FSU/Clemson. If it is more disappointing than expected, why would B1G/SEC want them? If it is better than expected, they will get more money because of same from the ACC than we currently think.

If the money is close im not sure why FSU or Clemson would exit the ACC given the positions they hold relative to making the playoffs via the ACC vs the Big or SEC. Regardless of money i simply dont see either one of those teams competing on a regular basis

 

[AcAndAc]

LMFAO. You cannot be serious.

You are creating a completely false narrative here. There is no ACC past 2036. Either way (2030 or 2036) there is nothing to look beyond 2036 in the ACC. This agreement does nothing for our long term prospects and hurts us short term.

As to recruits, yes we are better off keeping the major programs here until 2036 vs 2030. It will be easier to recruit to a stronger conference. On top of that we will have more money to pay those players. You really think it will be easier to recruit in 2032 with all the top teams gone? Why would a recruit take us seriously?

We are losing money from 2025-2030. That will hurt our programs. If you didn't need money to compete, then why give Clemson and FSU more money? Money doesn't matter, right?

FSU/Clemson are trying to keep up with Ohio State and Alabama. We are trying to keep up with Pitt, BC, Rutgers and UConn.

Our last five coaching hires are Fran Brown (great start,but no prior HC experience), Dino Babers (FCS/MAC 4 years of HC experience), Scott Shafer (internal hire/no prior HC experience), Doug Marrone (worked well/no prior HC experience), and Greg Robinson (#$%#$, no prior HC experience).

Have we ever decided to go spend to hire a top coach? We did not even do that in basketball to try to retain status as a top 10 program !! So let's not pretend that lack of money alone is the issue. We get more money out of the ACC than we got out of the Big East but DID NOT invest that into football or basketball. At the very least, we should step back and let some more money go into the programs that want to win titles and perhaps can. Nice that we hired Fran last year and he is talking about titles. I can understand FSU and Clemson doubting our committment though... too late perhaps.

 

[AcAndAc]

I would be perfectly happy going back to the old Big East FB conference replacing Rutgers with UConn, Temple with Nova, and adding Army/Navy to get to 10 teams. Then to get to 10 for BBall have StJ/GTown.

The problem is...

-For FB you need access to the playoff. If that Big East had an auto bid, then we are all good. If not, then you need to be a Top 10 team and that isn't happening consistently without $.

-For BBall the access to the NCAAT is there. But how many bids would the Big East get without $? How far would Big East teams go in the NCAAT without $?

The SEC this year could potentially get 14 of 16 teams in the NCAAT. How did a conference that used to be UK and their little brothers get to be that good? The SEC hasn't won a title since 2012, and that is the only one since 2007. They haven't been to the Title game since 2014. In the last 25 NCAATs they have 3 combined titles. In the last 23 NCAATs they have only been to the title game 4 times. They got to where they are now because of $.

Syracuse can/should average 10,000 more fans per game than the average ACC bball team. We should have a top 5 coach in the conference... if not top 3 behind only Duke/UNC. We don't. We do not even have a tough 15 coach right now. And rather than PAY to fix it, they would rather go cheap and blame it on optics.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

FSU/Clemson are trying to keep up with Ohio State and Alabama. We are trying to keep up with Pitt, BC, Rutgers and UConn.

Our last five coaching hires are Fran Brown (great start,but no prior HC experience), Dino Babers (FCS/MAC 4 years of HC experience), Scott Shafer (internal hire/no prior HC experience), Doug Marrone (worked well/no prior HC experience), and Greg Robinson (#$%#$, no prior HC experience).

Have we ever decided to go spend to hire a top coach? We did not even do that in basketball to try to retain status as a top 10 program !! So let's not pretend that lack of money alone is the issue. We get more money out of the ACC than we got out of the Big East but DID NOT invest that into football or basketball. At the very least, we should step back and let some more money go into the programs that want to win titles and perhaps can. Nice that we hired Fran last year and he is talking about titles. I can understand FSU and Clemson doubting our committment though... too late perhaps.

You cannot retain coaches (especially Asst Coaches in FB) if other programs can offer them twice as much money. It was an issue going back to the Coach P days. That is the issue for B12 and ACC schools. Good coaches will be taken away which means it is harder to have stability.

Why do we care if FSU and Clemson keep up with the B1G/SEC? They need to win the ACC which doesn't contain B1G/SEC schools. Why prop those two up at out own expense?

Yes, we are getting more money than we used to. But our B1G/SEC/B12 OOC competition is getting way more than we are, and our ACC competition is getting the same as us. We cannot spend Big East money on FB and BBall and have success. It is like Scooch said about BBall, it doesn't matter that our NIL is going up next year if everyone else is also going up.

Like I said before I am all for going back to Big East FB if we had an auto bid to the playoff. Money alone does not matter in FB. Which is why it is silly to give more to Clemson and FSU if their competition is the ACC and not the B1G and SEC.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Syracuse can/should average 10,000 more fans per game than the average ACC bball team. We should have a top 5 coach in the conference... if not top 3 behind only Duke/UNC. We don't. We do not even have a tough 15 coach right now. And rather than PAY to fix it, they would rather go cheap and blame it on optics.

How can we pay to fix it if we have less money? That will actually make it harder to fix. You need money to hire a big tiem HC. You need money to fire mistakes. Yet you don't think money is important?

 

[AcAndAc]

How can we pay to fix it if we have less money? That will actually make it harder to fix. You need money to hire a big tiem HC. You need money to fire mistakes. Yet you don't think money is important?

I agree that the money makes it harder. But maybe we need to drop back a level and focus on basketball then. Not sure what to tell you. FSU/Clemson are what keeps us having access to the playoffs.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Not sure what to tell you. FSU/Clemson are what keeps us having access to the playoffs.

So shouldn't we want to lock them in until 2036 to keep access to the playoffs instead of losing access when they leave in 2030?

 

[AcAndAc]

You cannot retain coaches (especially Asst Coaches in FB) if other programs can offer them twice as much money. It was an issue going back to the Coach P days. That is the issue for B12 and ACC schools. Good coaches will be taken away which means it is harder to have stability.

Why do we care if FSU and Clemson keep up with the B1G/SEC? They need to win the ACC which doesn't contain B1G/SEC schools. Why prop those two up at out own expense?

Yes, we are getting more money than we used to. But our B1G/SEC/B12 OOC competition is getting way more than we are, and our ACC competition is getting the same as us. We cannot spend Big East money on FB and BBall and have success. It is like Scooch said about BBall, it doesn't matter that our NIL is going up next year if everyone else is also going up.

Like I said before I am all for going back to Big East FB if we had an auto bid to the playoff. Money alone does not matter in FB. Which is why it is silly to give more to Clemson and FSU if their competition is the ACC and not the B1G and SEC.

Where and how would the B12 be making more money than the ACC?

Here is some analysis of revenue for ACC:

Projecting 2024-25 ACC Payouts

This blog is about ACC Football - past glory, what went wrong, and how to fix it and get back to the glory days again.

accfootballrx.blogspot.com

Not sure how accurate it is. But it is just PART of the revenue. I saw somewhere that Clemson had well over $100M in revenue.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Where and how would the B12 be making more money than the ACC?

Here is some analysis of revenue for ACC:

Projecting 2024-25 ACC Payouts

This blog is about ACC Football - past glory, what went wrong, and how to fix it and get back to the glory days again.

accfootballrx.blogspot.com

Not sure how accurate it is. But it is just PART of the revenue. I saw somewhere that Clemson had well over $100M in revenue.

If the mid and bottom ACC schools are going down in $ per yer that drops them below the B12. The ACC average is higher but with uneven payouts the median ACC payout will be less than the B12.

 

[HtownOrange]

 

[kismet35]

Is it me or did the lacrosse forum disappear from the main page on the site? Sorry for posting off topic here...go cuse!

 

[AcAndAc]

So shouldn't we want to lock them in until 2036 to keep access to the playoffs instead of losing access when they leave in 2030?

If the mid and bottom ACC schools are going down in $ per yer that drops them below the B12. The ACC average is higher but with uneven payouts the median ACC payout will be less than the B12.

The existing B12 schools get $40M per year. If we all schools are getting $50M per year and the worse reduction would be BC going down $6M per year, that is still $44M per year. More than any B12 school. The ACC"s deal is not horrible, just not as good as B1G/SEC.

 

[Orangefizz]

I would be perfectly happy going back to the old Big East FB conference replacing Rutgers with UConn, Temple with Nova, and adding Army/Navy to get to 10 teams. Then to get to 10 for BBall have StJ/GTown.

The problem is...

-For FB you need access to the playoff. If that Big East had an auto bid, then we are all good. If not, then you need to be a Top 10 team and that isn't happening consistently without $.

-For BBall the access to the NCAAT is there. But how many bids would the Big East get without $? How far would Big East teams go in the NCAAT without $?

The SEC this year could potentially get 14 of 16 teams in the NCAAT. How did a conference that used to be UK and their little brothers get to be that good? The SEC hasn't won a title since 2012, and that is the only one since 2007. They haven't been to the Title game since 2014. In the last 25 NCAATs they have 3 combined titles. In the last 23 NCAATs they have only been to the title game 4 times. They got to where they are now because of $.

In 2030 I think our best chance is to have a merger with some of the Big 12 teams.

Boston College
Syracuse
UConn
Pittsburgh
West Virginia
Cincinnati
Louisville
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest
UCF
Houston
SMU

 

[longtimefan]

If you think that the BE schools playing D1 football (Cuse, BC, and Pitt) were correct in totally rebuffing PSU, then you either think that PSU has been hurt while the 3 BE schools are now in great shape, or else you just do not care.

The day that either FSU or Clemson or UNC leaves the ACC is the day that the ACC starts to collapse in on itself. Like the final collapse of northeastern football having any significant number of fans as PSU headed toward the midwest via league.

If you think that PSU would not have high-tailed it to the B1G at their first opportunity you are naive.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

The existing B12 schools get $40M per year. If we all schools are getting $50M per year and the worse reduction would be BC going down $6M per year, that is still $44M per year. More than any B12 school. The ACC"s deal is not horrible, just not as good as B1G/SEC.

Last I saw the ACC vs B12 difference was less than $5M a year. How is the worst going down only $6M. Also with the merit based distribution that is less money too.

 

[WoadBlue]

USA Today article

 

[WoadBlue]

If you think that PSU would not have high-tailed it to the B1G at their first opportunity you are naive.

By the time that Paterno had gotten furious with the BE, that is true. Before that, I think he was really hoping for an Eastern league for all sports. BE basketball interests were never going to allow that.

 

[kcsu]

The existing B12 schools get $40M per year. If we all schools are getting $50M per year and the worse reduction would be BC going down $6M per year, that is still $44M per year. More than any B12 school. The ACC"s deal is not horrible, just not as good as B1G/SEC.

The ACC is going to stay in the third slot if they do things the right way which i believe they are. Let's say that FSU and Clemson do well. Fantastic they make money they make playoffs everything is beautiful for them. But let's say they don't. What kind of a deal will they get from the other leagues? Will they ever make the playoffs or will they be an afterthought. Same with VA and NC. There is no way they make the playoffs in the SEC. Maybe in the Big but I doubt it. As to Duke it's not going to happen for them. SU needs to prepare to put themselves in position to join the Big both athletically and academically. Everything we do should be based on that goal. The downside is that schools do leave, and the ACC picks up other teams. Keeps a playoff berth or two and moves forward as a third-place league. That is how this is going to play out unless congress gets involved.

 

[Orangefizz]

The ACC is going to stay in the third slot if they do things the right way which i believe they are. Let's say that FSU and Clemson do well. Fantastic they make money they make playoffs everything is beautiful for them. But let's say they don't. What kind of a deal will they get from the other leagues? Will they ever make the playoffs or will they be an afterthought. Same with VA and NC. There is no way they make the playoffs in the SEC. Maybe in the Big but I doubt it. As to Duke it's not going to happen for them. SU needs to prepare to put themselves in position to join the Big both athletically and academically. Everything we do should be based on that goal. The downside is that schools do leave, and the ACC picks up other teams. Keeps a playoff berth or two and moves forward as a third-place league. That is how this is going to play out unless congress gets involved.

I think there is no way that Syracuse makes the cut for the Big Ten unless they go to 30 teams. Notre Dame, Virginia, North Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech, Miami, Cal and Stanford would all be ahead of Syracuse from the ACC