ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment

[SmilinBob]

ACC go and get TCU and Baylor and let the Big 12/Pac do whatever it wants.

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

I've said a million times a non traditional bicoastal conference that is derived from a merger of the PAC-12 and ACC should be explored immediately. Everyone says it is far fetched, but owning the coasts, and coastal markets, would firmly position this conference as the 3rd best in football moving forward, and probably the best hoops conference in the nation.

But agreed with above, if the ACC sits idle, then the Big 12 gets the AZ and CO schools, and the Big 10 gets UO and UW, and the ACC becomes a distant 4th which then will probably lose Clemson and FSU to the SEC.

 

[richmondcuse03]

I've said a million times a non traditional bicoastal conference that is derived from a merger of the PAC-12 and ACC should be explored immediately. Everyone says it is far fetched, but owning the coasts, and coastal markets, would firmly position this conference as the 3rd best in football moving forward, and probably the best hoops conference in the nation.

But agreed with above, if the ACC sits idle, then the Big 12 gets the AZ and CO schools, and the Big 10 gets UO and UW, and the ACC becomes a distant 4th which then will probably lose Clemson and FSU to the SEC.

Think there's a lot of merit to this. You have regional games mostly, with cross-over, exciting matchups. Can do a mini tourney in basketball during the season even. Have some fun road trips for football. Sell the entire inventory.

All the non-rev sports can stick with traditional regional schedules.

 

[Cuse'91]

The Big 12 has already won. They have the benefit of geography on their side; central position to expand in either direction. But, most importantly, they have a quality product to sell.

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

The Big 12 has already won. They have the benefit of geography on their side; central position to expand in either direction. But, most importantly, they have a quality product to sell.

I think they have risen from the ashes to be in the pole position. But their markets are not amazing, and a very strong strategic move by the other two conferences together I do believe could still work. But the ACC and PAC12 seem content to let the BIG 12 dictate things

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

People way more qualified then us look at the value of each team and see what team brings enough value to expand, I’m guessing nobody in the current pac 12 add enough value for big 10 or SEC. That being said you would think the ACC needs to be proactive and see if you can poach 4 teams my guess would be Stanford, cal, Oregon and Washington to get the conference up around that 40 million plus per team range. Nothing this conference can do can get anywhere near the 70 million + the BIG and SEC get but maybe thinking outside the box and adding the right teams can close the gap a little.

I dont think there is a scenario where the ACC can simply pull in a few PAC 12 teams. The logistics there would be too complicated for those 4. I think instead the way this would work would be a more formal merger, where these teams would still play a large percentage of their games on their respective coasts (6), with possibly 3 crossovers for football each season (which would mean no more than 2 long trips), and a handful for hoops.

 

[Cuse'91]

I think they have risen from the ashes to be in the pole position. But their markets are not amazing, and a very strong strategic move by the other two conferences together I do believe could still work. But the ACC and PAC12 seem content to let the BIG 12 dictate things

Or the ACC, Big 12, Pac 12 could all merge and form a de facto League. Play each other exclusively; freeze out the SEC and B1G from inter conference matchups until the Playoffs. An American and National League in baseball situation before cross over games.

 

[IthacaMatt]

FIFY.

Rutgers still leads in red ink over the last several decades and it will take decades to pay back what they they have stolen from taxpayers, students and from donors, if they can ever repay it. They have yet to break even and continuously extend their projected break even date into the future.

Sounds like Uber, Twitter, and so many other tech start-ups of the last 10 years.

 

[CU44SE]

The Big 12 has already won. They have the benefit of geography on their side; central position to expand in either direction. But, most importantly, they have a quality product to sell.

They lost Texas and Oklahoma. In what world have they won?

Yes they added some programs. If they add PAC 12 schools they will beat the ACC. But as it currently stands the ACC is ahead of the Big 12.

 

[baggerbob]

They lost Texas and Oklahoma. In what world have they won?

Yes they added some programs. If they add PAC 12 schools they will beat the ACC. But as it currently stands the ACC is ahead of the Big 12.

The ACC needs to add the remaining Pac 12 schools, have them add San Diego St, and UNLV, then the ACC needs to grab USF, and Uconn to get to 16.
Both the football and Basketball schools need to understand that football and basketball both need to be strong.
Basketball is undervalued, that's wht the SEC is making a big push in that direction.

 

[TexanMark]

Or the ACC, Big 12, Pac 12 could all merge and form a de facto League. Play each other exclusively; freeze out the SEC and B1G from inter conference matchups until the Playoffs. An American and National League in baseball situation before cross over games.

This is the only play.

America will love this...8 league games and each school plays 1 game each year vs the PAC12 and Big16. Not perfect schedule wise...but adding a few more schools can bring it up to 42 or 48

No one wants Big Time sports concentrated in the Sunbelt and the Great Lakes. Not when there are several frauds among the chosen P2.

 

[Hoo's That]

Or the ACC, Big 12, Pac 12 could all merge and form a de facto League. Play each other exclusively; freeze out the SEC and B1G from inter conference matchups until the Playoffs. An American and National League in baseball situation before cross over games.

That would be a real tough sell to Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida State, and Louisville. You could make a carve-out for them and tell the rest of the conference not to schedule OOC games vs. the SEC and B1G.

 

[orange79]

That would be a real tough sell to Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida State, and Louisville. You could make a carve-out for them and tell the rest of the conference not to schedule OOC games vs. the SEC and B1G.

Yep - for this to work you would have to have in-state rival exceptions.

 

[Cuse'91]

Clemson and Florida State will be in the SEC. Miami and Georgia Tech in the B1G.

 

[Orangefizz]

Clemson and Florida State will be in the SEC. Miami and Georgia Tech in the B1G.

That is partially true. You really think UVA VT UNC will be left out. I personally don’t see that at all.

BIG- UVA UNC GT MIAMI
SEC- VT NCST CLEMSON FSU

 

[TexanMark]

That is partially true. You really think UVA VT UNC will be left out. I personally don’t see that at all.

BIG- UVA UNC GT MIAMI
SEC- VT NCST CLEMSON FSU

UVA is an academic powerhouse but they are like Cuse

Great Hoop following
So so Football following

GTech is even worse...crumbling stadium, aging fan base, non existent BB fanbase lost in pro town where UGA is big college dog.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

As long as the ACC has Clemson and FSU, it will be #3. The only real football brands left are those 2 schools and ND. The B12 can have 50 schools and it won't change that fact. On top of that the ACC has better markets. And if we look at fanbase size (top teams attendance), the ACC is on top as well.

A national conference would make sense but it would only work if started from scratch. All three conferences have too much fat to make it work via expansion. It needs to come from the outside, but who has the vision?

IMO 28 teams works out great as you can have 7 divisions of 4 and a 9 team conference tournament. Assuming it would be allowed. You would play everyone outside your division once every 4 years with a 10 game conf schedule.

New Conference
UNC, NC State, GA Tech, Clemson, FSU, Miami, UVA, VA Tech, Pitt, SU, BC, Houston, TCU, Kansas, UCF, Cincinnati, BYU, Oklahoma State, Utah, Colorado, Washington, Oregon, Stanford, Arizona, Arizona State plus 3 others. Would Notre Dame join? I think at that point they would. Which leaves 2 from the below.

ACC
Duke, Wake, Louisville

B12
Baylor, Texas Tech, West Virginia, Iowa State, Kansas State

P12
Cal, Washington State, Oregon State

Others
Memphis, UConn, San Diego State, UNLV, Tulane, Temple

 

[Orangefizz]

UVA is an academic powerhouse but they are like Cuse

Great Hoop following
So so Football following

GTech is even worse...crumbling stadium, aging fan base, non existent BB fanbase lost in pro town where UGA is big college dog.

Yes but UVA and GT’s academic prestige and location is FAR superior to Cuse

Here’s how I see a national conference:

East - BC CUSE PITT WV UC UL WF UCF

Central: OSU KU KST OSU UH TCU BAYLOR TXTECH

West: BYU CU UTAH UA ASU SDSU OSU WSU

For football, 11 conference games. Seven within the division, and a home/away with each of the other two divisions.

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

I firmly believe the Big 12 would rather go it alone and just try to build out a 16 team conference with their own teams in the middle of the country rather than join the ACC and PAC-12. I also feel like a 3 team conference is just ripe for a split given what feel like major cultural and academic differences between the schools in the Big 12 and the coastal schools.

I think a coastal alliance can stick for a while as a legit 3 or at worst close 4th best conference. But going too big, IMO, runs a risk of a big peel off of talent in a few years.

Just my thoughts.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I firmly believe the Big 12 would rather go it alone and just try to build out a 16 team conference with their own teams in the middle of the country rather than join the ACC and PAC-12. I also feel like a 3 team conference is just ripe for a split given what feel like major cultural and academic differences between the schools in the Big 12 and the coastal schools.

I think a coastal alliance can stick for a while as a legit 3 or at worst close 4th best conference. But going too big, IMO, runs a risk of a big peel off of talent in a few years.

Just my thoughts.

IMO that ship has sailed. Can’t have Coastal alliance without Los Angeles.

There is a reason why the P12 despite decent markets cannot get a decent TV deal. That won’t change with teams going to the B12 or ACC. The P12 has no football brands and has a bunch of small fan bases. Maybe Oregon and Washington but that is it.

 

[annarbororange]

 

[Acesn8s]

The Acc needs to get its act together quick, i am not super concerned with FSU leaving because the legal costs and GOR are pretty iron clad. If it wasn’t then Clemson and FSU would have already left, furthermore ESPN has already spent a ton on the SEC why would they spend more in order to collapse ACC which they own the rights to for over a decade. It seems there either needs to be unequal revenue sharing which more than half the league would be against or they need to work out a deal to expand and earn more revenue. But they have to be proactive, and not let the Big 12 get their choice first.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

The Acc needs to get its act together quick, i am not super concerned with FSU leaving because the legal costs and GOR are pretty iron clad. If it wasn’t then Clemson and FSU would have already left, furthermore ESPN has already spent a ton on the SEC why would they spend more in order to collapse ACC which they own the rights to for over a decade. It seems there either needs to be unequal revenue sharing which more than half the league would be against or they need to work out a deal to expand and earn more revenue. But they have to be proactive, and not let the Big 12 get their choice first.

How can the ACC be proactive? Outside of ND there isn't an add that will bring a significant increase in money. Not let the B12 get 1st choice of what? Crap? That is all that is basically left.

Oregon and Washington have no incentive to go to the B12. They are holding out hope for a B1G invite. Neither Cal nor Stanford will go to the B12. No one cares about Washington State or Oregon State. The B12 has no incentive to take Utah. Colorado isn't going back to the B12, they want to be in a conference with California schools. That leaves Arizona and Arizona State. Neither of those schools will bump the B12 ahead of the ACC. So what is the worry?

You could make the argument that killing off the B12 and P12, while also adding new markets, would get the ACC a decent bump. So if the ACC added TCU, Stanford, Houston, Arizona State, Washington, Colorado, UCF, Oregon, BYU, Kansas there would be no brands, no sizable fanbases, nor top markets left in the B12 or P12. But is the ACC really going to 24 teams from 14? And will those 10 schools of value really all agree to leave their current situation? Especially Oregon and Washington. Plus will these state schools be willing to leave same state schools in the cold (for example ASU and Zona)?

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

How can the ACC be proactive? Outside of ND there isn't an add that will bring a significant increase in money. Not let the B12 get 1st choice of what? Crap? That is all that is basically left.

Oregon and Washington have no incentive to go to the B12. They are holding out hope for a B1G invite. Neither Cal nor Stanford will go to the B12. No one cares about Washington State or Oregon State. The B12 has no incentive to take Utah. Colorado isn't going back to the B12, they want to be in a conference with California schools. That leaves Arizona and Arizona State. Neither of those schools will bump the B12 ahead of the ACC. So what is the worry?

You could make the argument that killing off the B12 and P12, while also adding new markets, would get the ACC a decent bump. So if the ACC added TCU, Stanford, Houston, Arizona State, Washington, Colorado, UCF, Oregon, BYU, Kansas there would be no brands, no sizable fanbases, nor top markets left in the B12 or P12. But is the ACC really going to 24 teams from 14? And will those 10 schools of value really all agree to leave their current situation? Especially Oregon and Washington. Plus will these state schools be willing to leave same state schools in the cold (for example ASU and Zona)?

ASU and Arizona are not splitting. 100%.

Oregon and OSU...may. Not likely, but not 100%. But I follow Arizona and that rivalry and the way the schools interconnect. Geographically, there is a mutual need there.

The ACC's proactive move is reaching out to the PAC 12 now and saying hey. Let's create a 24.5 team, 2 division mega conference that owns the coasts, minus LA for now. East division will likely be 14 teams for football, west division 10. Every year teams play 6 teams in their division, 4 in the other.

The ACC and PAC 12 schools need to come to grips with reality. These conferences are done when it comes to any chance to be top tier again. This is about creating a package that is good enough to command reasonable TV money and also will firmly establish it right behind the 2 big conferences along with the B12.

The caveat here is...I admittedly don't know if this prevents Clemson, FSU, Oregon, and Washington from leaving.

 

[elimunelson]

ASU and Arizona are not splitting. 100%.

Oregon and OSU...may. Not likely, but not 100%. But I follow Arizona and that rivalry and the way the schools interconnect. Geographically, there is a mutual need there.

The ACC's proactive move is reaching out to the PAC 12 now and saying hey. Let's create a 24.5 team, 2 division mega conference that owns the coasts, minus LA for now. East division will likely be 14 teams for football, west division 10. Every year teams play 6 teams in their division, 4 in the other.

The ACC and PAC 12 schools need to come to grips with reality. These conferences are done when it comes to any chance to be top tier again. This is about creating a package that is good enough to command reasonable TV money and also will firmly establish it right behind the 2 big conferences along with the B12.

The caveat here is...I admittedly don't know if this prevents Clemson, FSU, Oregon, and Washington from leaving.

nothing frankensteinian with the allignment will satiate a team from leaving. Period.

If Clemson/FSU/etc can make it work financially they are gonna leave. Just like we would leave tomorrow if BIG offered us a massive payout to come. It's foolish to suggest otherwise. Anything left will be in a position of weakness financially and maybe, for a time, in a position of strength for the playoff football wise.

The next decade I hope Syracuse, as an alum, can have their cake (money) and also figure out a way to reposition us geographically with our peers for hoops sake (a reconstituted big east would be fantastic) and a federation of old school eastern independent teams that are paid out in a way that isn't a death knell to the program. Any zombie version of ACC minus the big football schools will be ultimately killed IMO.