ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment

[longtimefan]

The B1G is all about money? You mean the conference that requires all universities that apply to their conference be an AAU member - an academic certification - cares only about money? C'monnnnn.

They took Nebraska, knowing the 'Huskers were about to be booted from the AAU.

And you don't think they would take non-AAU ND at the drop of a hat?

 

[TheCusian]

The B1G is all about money? You mean the conference that requires all universities that apply to their conference be an AAU member - an academic certification - cares only about money? C'monnnnn.

Don’t worry they love money and academic flag waving. All part of the same thing. You never met a guy who is rich and smart? Those dudes love both because they both make them look good.

 

[NKR1978]

The B1G is all about money? You mean the conference that requires all universities that apply to their conference be an AAU member - an academic certification - cares only about money? C'monnnnn.

Gordon Gee, when he was president of OSU, bragged that the Big 10 had "more money than God." They are 100% all about the money despite the AAU "requirement." I don't think Notre Dame being out of the AAU would ever keep them out of the Big 10.

 

[SUDadx2]

The money comes from TV so when considering expansion of any kind, it's about television markets.

The top 10 media market are...

Rank	Designated Market Area (DMA)	TV Homes	% of US
1	New York Syracuse	6,824,120	6.377
2	Los Angeles	5,145,350	4.808
3	Chicago Northwestern	3,256,400	3.043
4	Philadelphia Temple	2,758,330	2.578
5	Dallas-Ft. Worth TCU/SMU	2,563,320	2.395
6	San Francisco-Oak-San Jose	2,364,740	2.210
7	Washington, DC (Hagrstwn) UVa	2,351,930	2.198
8	Houston Houston/Rice	2,330,180	2.178
9	Boston (Manchester) BC	2,302,680	2.152
10	Atlanta Ga. Tech	2,269,270	2.121

The ACC already has a school in 4 of the top ten markets: Syracuse in NY, UVa in DC, BC in Boston and Ga. Tech in Atlanta.

Of the other six markets,

• Los Angeles; geographically undesirable ($$$$$ travel costs)
• Chicago; Northwestern doesn't seem like a fit.
• Philadelphia; Temple plays at Lincoln Field, Basketball?
• Dallas-Ft Worth; word is the Pac 12 is looking at TCU. Could SMU step up?
• San Francisco; geographically undesirable ($$$$$ travel costs)
• Houston; Houston has the stronger athletics, Rice has the stronger academics.

+ + + Notre Dame has national television appeal and would be a no brainer.

+ Temple, SMU and Houston offer similar football competitive levels.

+ TCU plays better football than Temple, SMU or Houston and has a nice stadium.

- SMU, stadium is small and basketball is not competitive.

+ TCU, SMU and Houston all open up new ground for recruiting.

IMO

• 1st choice: ND and TCU
• 2nd choice: ND and Houston
• 3rd Choice: ND and Temple

Forget WVU

 

[ar inj]

IMO

• 1st choice: ND and TCU
• 2nd choice: ND and Houston
• 3rd Choice: ND and Temple

Forget WVU

I think it is a bit of a stretch to say Syracuse is in the NYC TV market, especially when NYC is a pro sports market. that does not mean there are not SU fans in the NYC market, but not every WVA fan is in a WVA TV market.

And the Charleston/Huntington market is bigger than the Syracuse market, but again that does not mean that is where all the fans can be found.

More importantly, many more people care about WVU football than even know there is such a thing as Temple football.

 

[WoadBlue]

If the intent is to squeeze out the SEC and also force ND to join, I think you see 9 conference games (4-5-5), 1 game each against an alliance conference (so for SU one game vs B1G and 1 vs P12), and 1 G5 (exceptions for ACC/SEC rivalries).

But that only works if all 3 have the same amount of teams. I think 15 makes the most sense for all (ACC adds ND, B1G adds KU, P12 adds Okie St, Texas Tech, Houston). IMO 16 would be a stretch as there is little advantage for any of the three conferences (ACC adds WV, B1G adds Iowa St, P12 adds UNLV).

Notre Dame would have 9 ACC games, one B1G game, USC, and Navy every year. They would hate it but have no choice. The rest of the ACC would never see USC which would stink though.

I think any scheduling alliance would be on a rotating basis. And that plan would start with annual games.

So, if the SA means each of the 3 leagues agree to play 8 league games and 2 P4 OOC games, you start by factoring in the 4 ACC-SEC in-state annual games: FSU-UF, GT-UGA, Clemson-SoCar, Louisville-UK. Each of those 4 ACC schools then would only have 1 BT or Pac foe per year; the other 10 of us would get 2 BT and Pac foes per year.

I do not think a scheduling alliance would drive ND into full football membership with anyone. ND would simply play SC, and probably Stanford and 1 or maybe 2 BT teams, every year. That would mean that SC, for example, would have as its pair ND annually and then some rotation among BT and ACC schools.

 

[WoadBlue]

It's funny, on Twitter the responses to the tweets about the "Alliance" were people expecting the ACC to backstab it. I can totally see that happening.

Twitter responses from whom? The horde of BT paid internet posters?

The SEC has learned to play very hard and fast, but it does so rather honestly. The SEC, for example, does not make teams who wish to talk to the SEC sign a confidentiality agreement. The BT does everything in secret.

If the BT does not wish to treat the ACC as it should, then the BT should play only with the Pac and see how that derails the SEC football near-monopoly.

Jim Phillips must get everything in writing from the BT.

 

[TheCusian]

IMO



I think it is a bit of a stretch to say Syracuse is in the NYC TV market, especially when NYC is a pro sports market. that does not mean there are not SU fans in the NYC market, but not every WVA fan is in a WVA TV market.

And the Charleston/Huntington market is bigger than the Syracuse market, but again that does not mean that is where all the fans can be found.

More importantly, many more people care about WVU football than even know there is such a thing as Temple football.

If there weren’t a way to watch Syracuse in NYC market, it would matter. Too many grads.

 

[WoadBlue]

IMO



I think it is a bit of a stretch to say Syracuse is in the NYC TV market, especially when NYC is a pro sports market. that does not mean there are not SU fans in the NYC market, but not every WVA fan is in a WVA TV market.

And the Charleston/Huntington market is bigger than the Syracuse market, but again that does not mean that is where all the fans can be found.

More importantly, many more people care about WVU football than even know there is such a thing as Temple football.

All of that is true. It is much, much less about a school being located inside a large TV market as it is about that school having a sizable and passionate fan base, both for game attendance and for TV watching.

 

[CousCuse]

Twitter responses from whom? The horde of BT paid internet posters?

The SEC has learned to play very hard and fast, but it does so rather honestly. The SEC, for example, does not make teams who wish to talk to the SEC sign a confidentiality agreement. The BT does everything in secret.

If the BT does not wish to treat the ACC as it should, then the BT should play only with the Pac and see how that derails the SEC football near-monopoly.

Jim Phillips must get everything in writing from the BT.

`The SEC has 8 blue chip brands. The ACC, B1g and Pac only have 5 or 6 between the 3 of them. The SEC could make an alliance with the AAC, BIG8 and the MWC and would be much stronger than the B1G's proposed "league". I don't think the SEC is going to lose in this conflict and I don't would be not smart to go against them.

 

[Chip]

The reason why WVU hasn't been invited to join the ACC can be seen on this board. Some think they'd be a great football asset and should be added asap. Others think they are just another mouth to feed and/or "can rot" because of past behavior (fan and otherwise). Truth is, they're probably both.

If the ACC wanted WVU, they could have had them at anytime. Why are they so much attractive now that they're homeless?

As someone who wouldn't mind seeing some of the old northeast guard put back together, yeah, it wouldn't be the worst thing. But the fact that it hasn't happened in all this time is telling.

 

[Chip]

i cant see houston.

redundant.

its why BYU might not get a seat (Utah), this points me back to my original team...UNLV.

theyre playing in Allegiant now too.

Okie St
TT
UNLV

sign me up for that roadie...

I don't really get why the Big 12 isn't trying to immediately land Houston and UNLV. They can later figure out some other combo from the Cincy, UCF, Memphis, BYU, Boise leftovers, but locking in Houston and Vegas would seem like a good move from a league desperate for viewers.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

i cant see houston.

redundant.

its why BYU might not get a seat (Utah), this points me back to my original team...UNLV.

theyre playing in Allegiant now too.

Okie St
TT
UNLV

sign me up for that roadie...

I think Texas Tech alone is too light for Texas. If you are going into the state you need two schools. Baylor won't get the votes. TCU maybe but they are a small school. Houston makes more sense having a large Texas school, in the East and West of the state.

UNLV makes perfect sense for 16. If the P12 is going East then IMO they need 2 Texas schools.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

The money comes from TV so when considering expansion of any kind, it's about television markets.

The top 10 media market are...

Rank	Designated Market Area (DMA)	TV Homes	% of US
1	New York Syracuse	6,824,120	6.377
2	Los Angeles	5,145,350	4.808
3	Chicago Northwestern	3,256,400	3.043
4	Philadelphia Temple	2,758,330	2.578
5	Dallas-Ft. Worth TCU/SMU	2,563,320	2.395
6	San Francisco-Oak-San Jose	2,364,740	2.210
7	Washington, DC (Hagrstwn) UVa	2,351,930	2.198
8	Houston Houston/Rice	2,330,180	2.178
9	Boston (Manchester) BC	2,302,680	2.152
10	Atlanta Ga. Tech	2,269,270	2.121

The ACC already has a school in 4 of the top ten markets: Syracuse in NY, UVa in DC, BC in Boston and Ga. Tech in Atlanta.

Of the other six markets,

• Los Angeles; geographically undesirable ($$$$$ travel costs)
• Chicago; Northwestern doesn't seem like a fit.
• Philadelphia; Temple plays at Lincoln Field, Basketball?
• Dallas-Ft Worth; word is the Pac 12 is looking at TCU. Could SMU step up?
• San Francisco; geographically undesirable ($$$$$ travel costs)
• Houston; Houston has the stronger athletics, Rice has the stronger academics.

+ + + Notre Dame has national television appeal and would be a no brainer.

+ Temple, SMU and Houston offer similar football competitive levels.

+ TCU plays better football than Temple, SMU or Houston and has a nice stadium.

- SMU, stadium is small and basketball is not competitive.

+ TCU, SMU and Houston all open up new ground for recruiting.

IMO

• 1st choice: ND and TCU
• 2nd choice: ND and Houston
• 3rd Choice: ND and Temple

Forget WVU

TCU is currently a better FB program but Houston has 4x the size of students. The potential size of the fan base matters.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I don't really get why the Big 12 isn't trying to immediately land Houston and UNLV. They can later figure out some other combo from the Cincy, UCF, Memphis, BYU, Boise leftovers, but locking in Houston and Vegas would seem like a good move from a league desperate for viewers.

The B12 should go all in on consolidating the G5 schools of value. I could see the B12 going to 20 teams with 4 natural pods but when has a conference ever added more than a few teams at a time? I would think the below would be the best case non P4 for all schools involved.



B12 North
Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Colorado State

B12 South
Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, Houston, New Mexico

B12 East
West Virginia, Cincinatti, Memphis, UCF, USF

B12 West
BYU, UNLV, Boise State, San Diego State, Fresno State

 

[Toga]

The B12 should go all in on consolidating the G5 schools of value. I could see the B12 going to 20 teams with 4 natural pods but when has a conference ever added more than a few teams at a time? I would think the below would be the best case non P4 for all schools involved.



B12 North
Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Colorado State

B12 South
Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, Houston, New Mexico

B12 East
West Virginia, Cincinatti, Memphis, UCF, USF

B12 West
BYU, UNLV, Boise State, San Diego State, Fresno State

The food's not very good but there's a lot of it.

 

[HtownOrange]

I don't really get why the Big 12 isn't trying to immediately land Houston and UNLV. They can later figure out some other combo from the Cincy, UCF, Memphis, BYU, Boise leftovers, but locking in Houston and Vegas would seem like a good move from a league desperate for viewers.

I cannot answer your question but pose a different view: Maybe the U of HTown wants to see what the TV deal will end up being in the B12 post UT and OU defections.

To other posters raising TTU as an anchor for Texas, you should recall that Lubbock is in the middle of nowhere, while roughly 80% or more of Texas' population lives within 3 hours of Htown. In no way does TTU have a significant presence in the major cities of Htown, Dallas, San Antonio, or Austin.

Likewise, Baylor, TCU, and UH cannot truly carry the state.

 

[HtownOrange]

`The SEC has 8 blue chip brands. The ACC, B1g and Pac only have 5 or 6 between the 3 of them. The SEC could make an alliance with the AAC, BIG8 and the MWC and would be much stronger than the B1G's proposed "league". I don't think the SEC is going to lose in this conflict and I don't would be not smart to go against them.

Name the blue chips in each conference. Not slamming you but I think short change the other conference while building up the SEC. By your count there are only 13 to 14 blue chip schools.

 

[texascpa]

Gordon Gee, when he was president of OSU, bragged that the Big 10 had "more money than God." They are 100% all about the money despite the AAU "requirement." I don't think Notre Dame being out of the AAU would ever keep them out of the Big 10.

As factual as his statement may be, it doesn't support the assertion that's all they care about. And there is zero evidence that they would accept Notre Dame without the the AAU accreditation.

 

[Alsacs]

As factual as his statement may be, it doesn't support the assertion that's all they care about. And there is zero evidence that they would accept Notre Dame without the the AAU accreditation.

Notre Dame declined an invitation to the Big Ten already in 1999.

That article also showed we were next in line with Missouri to be the 12th Big Ten.

Irish Rejects Joining Big Ten

Notre Dame To Continue Independence

www.cbsnews.com

 

[CousCuse]

Name the blue chips in each conference. Not slamming you but I think short change the other conference while building up the SEC. By your count there are only 13 to 14 blue chip schools.

ACC: Clemson, FSU. B1G: OSU. PAC12: USC, Oregon?. SEC: Florida, UGA, Alabama, Auburn, LSU, A&M, Texas, Oklahoma.

 

[texascpa]

Notre Dame declined an invitation to the Big Ten already in 1999.

That article also showed we were next in line with Missouri to be the 12th Big Ten.

Irish Rejects Joining Big Ten

Notre Dame To Continue Independence

www.cbsnews.com

I retract my statement. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[HtownOrange]

ACC: Clemson, FSU. B1G: OSU. PAC12: USC, Oregon?. SEC: Florida, UGA, Alabama, Auburn, LSU, A&M, Texas, Oklahoma.

Just my opinion, you are too young to make this call and you are still heavily favoring the SEC without applying your standards to the remaining conferences. I remind you that it is impossible, mathematically, for the SEC to have 8 blue chip schools unless every other school lost all its conference games. Even Vandy and Kentucky win some conference games.

I am not picking on you or calling you, just pointing out that the SEC lie that they are so tough that they beat up each other and no one else matters. P.S. The B1G had the same lie going in the 90s, though they would get beat up in bowl games.

Please list your standards if you want real input and discussion from your fellow Orange fans.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I cannot answer your question but pose a different view: Maybe the U of HTown wants to see what the TV deal will end in5he B12 post UT and OU defections.

To other posters raising TTU as an anchor for Texas, you should recall that Lubbock is inthemiddle of nowhere, while roughly 80% or Oregon of Texas' population lives within 3 hours of Htown. In order waydoes TTU havea significant presence in the major cities of Htown, Dallas, San Antonio, or Austin.

Likewise, Baylor, TCU, and UH cannot truly carry the state.

None of the leftovers are going to carry the state. So either you avoid the state entirely or you go after the two biggest schools. That will give you a presence. Not a large one but one big enough to matter. Going for only one team is not enough. Going for three teams is overkill.

Houston 37,625
Texas Tech 33,250
Baylor 14,375
SMU 12,375
TCU 11,375

For the B12 they already have 3 Texas schools. If they add only 2 or 4 schools it makes more sense to go outside of state. Houston might have the most value of the remaining Texas schools but a 4th Texas school doesn't help as much as adding say Cincy, Memphis, UCF, USF.

 

[qdawgg]

If there weren’t a way to watch Syracuse in NYC market, it would matter. Too many grads.

There are 53,000 SU alumni in NYC. I wouldn’t call that number enough to “matter”. I know you like people to not make statements without evidence so I did the work for you.