ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment

[WoadBlue]

I didn't mean ever. I just meant that these things tend to go 2 at a time. The idea that the B1G is going to go from 18 to 24 overnight is more forum fodder than reality/history. How would that make more money for the B1G or strengthen any aspect of the conference?

ND will wait to the bitter end. The B1G and SEC would probably go to odd number of teams to take them, so that is the rush?

This whole thing about money is interesting, but money isn't helping Rutgers satisfy its budget or be a better team than they were in the Big East.

But Rutgers does not have to do anything worth it. The issue for BT is that Rutgers having it keeps it within the BT and away from the ACC.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I didn't mean ever. I just meant that these things tend to go 2 at a time. The idea that the B1G is going to go from 18 to 24 overnight is more forum fodder than reality/history. How would that make more money for the B1G or strengthen any aspect of the conference?

ND will wait to the bitter end. The B1G and SEC would probably go to odd number of teams to take them, so that is the rush?

This whole thing about money is interesting, but money isn't helping Rutgers satisfy its budget or be a better team than they were in the Big East.

Agree that I don't see a large add by either P2. I don't think UNC will be first to announce either. They are the big dog in the ACC currently, plus there will be politics involved too. I would watch Miami to the B1G as the possible first domino. Or maybe even Duke or UVA. If the SEC strikes first, I think it would be Clemson. VA Tech would be a nice fit, but that might scare away UNC since the SEC isn't then taking UVA.


SEC added 2 to get to 12.
B1G added 1 to get to 11.
B1G added 1 to get to 12.
SEC added 2 to get to 14.
B1G added 2 to get to 14.
SEC added 2 to get to 16.
B1G added 2 to get to 16.
B1G added 2 to get to 18.
Next add?

 

[FloridaCuse]

Speculation that UNC already has a handshake agreement to join the SEC, and UVA to the B1G.

Speculation over 'handshake agreement' for North Carolina, Virginia if they leave ACC

.

www.on3.com

 

[Scooch]

Speculation that UNC already has a handshake agreement to join the SEC, and UVA to the B1G.

Speculation over 'handshake agreement' for North Carolina, Virginia if they leave ACC

.

www.on3.com

I've long thought that UNC and UVA would join the B1G together, so I admit I'm surprised to hear chatter about UNC going to the SEC.

But I'm not at all surprised that there will be an exodus from the ACC within a few years. Seems inevitable that anywhere from 4 to 8 ACC schools will depart.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Speculation that UNC already has a handshake agreement to join the SEC, and UVA to the B1G.

Speculation over 'handshake agreement' for North Carolina, Virginia if they leave ACC

.

www.on3.com

These would be the first time expansion leaks for both conferences. Seems speculative.

What happens with the NC State issue? Where dies Duke go? I am sure ESPN wants to keep their rights but the B1G is more likely to want them.

 

[oldpinepoint]

I've long thought that UNC and UVA would join the B1G together, so I admit I'm surprised to hear chatter about UNC going to the SEC.

But I'm not at all surprised that there will be an exodus from the ACC within a few years. Seems inevitable that anywhere from 4 to 8 ACC schools will depart.

We just need to be in 4-8 which I think is doable. Need to keep Fran and hoops needs to rebound this year or we move on from autry.

 

[FloridaCuse]

I've long thought that UNC and UVA would join the B1G together, so I admit I'm surprised to hear chatter about UNC going to the SEC.

But I'm not at all surprised that there will be an exodus from the ACC within a few years. Seems inevitable that anywhere from 4 to 8 ACC schools will depart.

I too would have thought that NC would go to the B1G with Va. Maybe the SEC can offer more. But this would open the B1G to take Miami or GA Tech, both AAU members as is Va. Who then goes to the SEC with NC, Clemson or FSU, and which of the 2 get left out? A question of NC going to either has always been moving from the head of the conference table with the ACC to the far end of the table with either of the other 2. I guess money wins out.

 

[FloridaCuse]

 

[FloridaCuse]

 

[HtownOrange]

Speculation that UNC already has a handshake agreement to join the SEC, and UVA to the B1G.

Speculation over 'handshake agreement' for North Carolina, Virginia if they leave ACC

.

www.on3.com

Did anyone actually think that after ESPN bullied the ACC and re-wrote the deal that it would last long? Serious question.

Once the exit fee was decreased and the GOR issue resolved, the ACC's days in its present form were numbered. If FSU has the money, they would already be gone.

Clemson probably enjoyed the easy path to the playoffs and with the skewed money deal for TV ratings they were close enough. However, with these revelations we should assume that too, are looking to leave.

It's amazing how many "brand" schools "dedicated" themselves to improving but failed while rendering lip service to ideals. Now the same schools are looking to jump and have yet to actually walk the walk. It will be interesting to see where everyone ends up.

So much for academics meaning anything.

 

[rocklloyd]

Did anyone actually think that after ESPN bullied the ACC and re-wrote the deal that it would last long? Serious question.

Once the exit fee was decreased and the GOR issue resolved, the ACC's days in its present form were numbered. If FSU has the money, they would already be gone.

Clemson probably enjoyed the easy path to the playoffs and with the skewed money deal for TV ratings they were close enough. However, with these revelations we should assume that too, are looking to leave.

It's amazing how many "brand" schools "dedicated" themselves to improving but failed while rendering lip service to ideals. Now the same schools are looking to jump and have yet to actually walk the walk. It will be interesting to see where everyone ends up.

So much for academics meaning anything.

Money talks. Bs walks

 

[TerryD]

I didn't mean ever. I just meant that these things tend to go 2 at a time. The idea that the B1G is going to go from 18 to 24 overnight is more forum fodder than reality/history. How would that make more money for the B1G or strengthen any aspect of the conference?

ND will wait to the bitter end. The B1G and SEC would probably go to odd number of teams to take them, so that is the rush?

This whole thing about money is interesting, but money isn't helping Rutgers satisfy its budget or be a better team than they were in the Big East.

ND doesn't plan to join a football conference, ever. There is no "bitter end" because there is no end.

Why join a conference? Why give up the current flexibility? There is zero desire and zero need for ND to join a football conference.

The net benefits are not worth it for ND to give up football independence. ND will always have a path to the playoffs and a big enough TV payout as an independent.

Even if the ACC loses a fairly large number of schools, ND will figure out something to stay independent.

 

[SU94]

ND doesn't plan to join a football conference, ever. There is no "bitter end" because there is no end.

Why join a conference? Why give up the current flexibility? There is zero desire and zero need for ND to join a football conference.

The net benefits are not worth it for ND to give up football independence. ND will always have a path to the playoffs and a big enough TV payout as an independent.

Even if the ACC loses a fairly large number of schools, ND will figure out something to stay independent.

Thanks heavens. Although if ND is part of the oft-envisioned B1G-SEC Super League, you could argue that they’re part of a conglomerate of 32-36 schools. You could conceivably call that a conference could you not? Does that make you feel dirty?

I respected Notre Dame’s independence for a long, long time. That has now expired, as it is purely a vanity item. I also don’t believe that younger ND alums are as invested in it as you older grouping. So I believe it will die ultimately. But the lag in that caliber of decision will actually hinder/harm ND and take it even further away from its desired intercollegiate sports objectives. I believe you’re already beginning to see the effects. The USC series is on some level of shaky ground and Navy might not be playing on the same level in the coming years. Or they could play two more ACC games and solidify things to some reasonable degree.

 

[WoadBlue]

Did anyone actually think that after ESPN bullied the ACC and re-wrote the deal that it would last long? Serious question.

Once the exit fee was decreased and the GOR issue resolved, the ACC's days in its present form were numbered. If FSU has the money, they would already be gone.

Clemson probably enjoyed the easy path to the playoffs and with the skewed money deal for TV ratings they were close enough. However, with these revelations we should assume that too, are looking to leave.

It's amazing how many "brand" schools "dedicated" themselves to improving but failed while rendering lip service to ideals. Now the same schools are looking to jump and have yet to actually walk the walk. It will be interesting to see where everyone ends up.

So much for academics meaning anything.

What is happening is corporate media acting in concert with their Pet conferences to squeeze other conferences toward death so the Pet conferences can take what they want.

And what each of the already Super Rich leagues (BT and SEC) want is an end game in which they (between them) have TOTAL control over the Top Tier of CFB. Most likely that final stage cannot be achieved until ND is 'forced' into 1 of the 2 and between them they have closer to 50 than 40 members.

They will present their 2 league Top Tier as representing the whole country because teams from both coasts will be included, as will teams from all the most important 'flyover' states in terms of CFB.

What the pair are desperate to do is add rather quickly so many of the top values in the ACC that there is NO way that anybody could even dream it possible that there ever could be a 3rd Major conference left standing built from the ACC and Big 12.

I do not see any way that the Big 12 ever could be the basis of a 3rd Major conference left standing. But if it could, it definitely could not unless it could secure several of the ACC most valuable members: the very one the VT and SE are determined to take.

If what was briefly called the ACC Magnificent 7 (UVA, VT, UNC, NCSU, Clemson, FSU, Miami) would remain together and act uniformly to cull the ACC's dead weight and replace with real value from the Big 12, we would see a 3rd Major conferencce that would be left standing.

That would entail the ACC members agreeing to do with less until freed of ESPN in 2036. Because ESPN is so deep into serving what the SEC wants that it might not even raise the ACC TV money if ND became a full football member.

But the reality is that that surviving Major conference ACC would not have Wake or BC, and might not have another couple schools currently in the ACC.

 

[WoadBlue]

Thanks heavens. Although if ND is part of the oft-envisioned B1G-SEC Super League, you could argue that they’re part of a conglomerate of 32-36 schools. You could conceivably call that a conference could you not? Does that make you feel dirty?

I respected Notre Dame’s independence for a long, long time. That has now expired, as it is purely a vanity item. I also don’t believe that younger ND alums are as invested in it as you older grouping. So I believe it will die ultimately. But the lag in that caliber of decision will actually hinder/harm ND and take it even further away from its desired intercollegiate sports objectives. I believe you’re already beginning to see the effects. The USC series is on some level of shaky ground and Navy might not be playing on the same level in the coming years. Or they could play two more ACC games and solidify things to some reasonable degree.

If the SEC and BT do to the ACC what they are planning, ND playing even 3 ACC games every year would HURT the Irish in terms of strength of schedule. SEC and BT are stressing SOS and they also are talking up the 2 leagues playing each other many games each season - and if there are but 2 Major conferences, that will leave even ND, the sacred Indy, with too weak a schedule to get in except with 12-0 or maybe 11-1. And then still get a low seed.

So what the SEC and BT are acting to finalize will force ND into one of them or else accept that its days of being a Top Tier post-season football power are over.

ND people think that ND itself is just too big to be cornered. But the BT and SEC combined are much, MUCH bigger than ND, and both would love to see ND come begging. Both would love to see ND left on the outside.

 

[SU94]

If the SEC and BT do to the ACC what they are planning, ND playing even 3 ACC games every year would HURT the Irish in terms of strength of schedule. SEC and BT are stressing SOS and they also are talking up the 2 leagues playing each other many games each season - and if there are but 2 Major conferences, that will leave even ND, the sacred Indy, with too weak a schedule to get in except with 12-0 or maybe 11-1. And then still get a low seed.

So what the SEC and BT are acting to finalize will force ND into one of them or else accept that its days of being a Top Tier post-season football power are over.

ND people think that ND itself is just too big to be cornered. But the BT and SEC combined are much, MUCH bigger than ND, and both would love to see ND come begging. Both would love to see ND left on the outside.

And is why now is the best time for ND to consider solidifying the ACC. Don’t wait until 2030 or ‘31. They can stop of at least slow down the inevitable Super League by headlining the ACC with Clemson (their new rival per their new 10+ year scheduling agreement), Florida State and UNC. And perhaps Syracuse if Fran sticks around for 12-15 years.

Funny part of that ND can get most of what it wants, namely a smattering of games in the Southeast, Texas and the West Coast, as a member of the ACC. And they’d still have contour or leverage to dictate 8 regular-season games, so they could play Navy or Purdue or Michigan State or Texas OOC.

But they are so blindly vain and stuck on this notion of independence that was rooted in the 1970s and 80s. I chronicled it above. It is going away anyhow. Why not seize upon the opportunities that they are comfortable with and are sitting in front of them. I am actually hopefule that Pete Bevacqua (who is honestly brilliant and a visionary) will curry favor and influence to make this happen in the coming 3-4 years.

And now I will wait for TerryD’s repetitive/stoggy/conceited Irish missive to arrive any second. 5-4-3-2-1 …

 

[CuseCactus]

I’m not at all surprised to see UNC go to the SEC. It’s a much more natural cultural and geographic fit than the Big 10.

Re academics - many of the SEC schools are rising. (And already have strong academic members in UF, Vandy, UT and A&M.)

If I’m a UNC alum - I’d be thrilled with this. And would be hoping Duke or UVA came along for the ride.

The ACC is a dead man walking as an elite conference.

Truly hoping SU can somehow squirrel into the Big 10. Fran better kick some ass……. And hoops? Dunno what to say about hoops.

 

[richmondcuse03]

If the SEC and BT do to the ACC what they are planning, ND playing even 3 ACC games every year would HURT the Irish in terms of strength of schedule. SEC and BT are stressing SOS and they also are talking up the 2 leagues playing each other many games each season - and if there are but 2 Major conferences, that will leave even ND, the sacred Indy, with too weak a schedule to get in except with 12-0 or maybe 11-1. And then still get a low seed.

So what the SEC and BT are acting to finalize will force ND into one of them or else accept that its days of being a Top Tier post-season football power are over.

ND people think that ND itself is just too big to be cornered. But the BT and SEC combined are much, MUCH bigger than ND, and both would love to see ND come begging. Both would love to see ND left on the outside.

ND is the only school that can lose and still not worry. They went through a bad period a while ago and it had little impact on their brand or ratings. They’re stronger than ever. They have a national TV contract and have no reasons to budge unless something happens where their fan base is all of a sudden cut by a massive amount. Actual tv ratings matter and ND is doing just fine. Cutting ND out of the system is what gets even more media members up in arms ( they already hate the Big Ten proposal) and presumably gets more members of congress and other folks involved. Lot of powerful ND law school alums out there. it would be painfully obvious that they’re not creating a true national system if they’re excluding someone like ND.

 

[qdawgg]

ND - in the future it would not be difficult for the SEC and B10, after they’ve raided the ACC. To not allow any of their teams to play ND on their OOC schedule. As a way to force ND to join a conference.

 

[Scooch]

We just need to be in 4-8 which I think is doable. Need to keep Fran and hoops needs to rebound this year or we move on from autry.

I don't imagine that we will. The most likely outcome is that we're either in a reconstituted ACC or a merged ACC/B12.

 

[Scooch]

ND - in the future it would not be difficult for the SEC and B10, after they’ve raided the ACC. To not allow any of their teams to play ND on their OOC schedule. As a way to force ND to join a conference.

Why? Neither the SEC nor the B1G need ND as a member. What's their incentive to "force" them into a conference?

People really don't understand ND at all, which is weird since they've been one of the only consistent actors in college athletics for several decades running.

 

[longtimefan]

ND doesn't plan to join a football conference, ever. There is no "bitter end" because there is no end.

Why join a conference? Why give up the current flexibility? There is zero desire and zero need for ND to join a football conference.

The net benefits are not worth it for ND to give up football independence. ND will always have a path to the playoffs and a big enough TV payout as an independent.

Even if the ACC loses a fairly large number of schools, ND will figure out something to stay independent.

A few years ago, I thought there was a chance that ND would, in the long run, end up in a conference. The move from 4 to 12 teams in the playoff pretty much disabused me of that notion.

 

[oldpinepoint]

I don't imagine that we will. The most likely outcome is that we're either in a reconstituted ACC or a merged ACC/B12.

I agree with you, on the most likely outcome. I think with Fran we can get our football brand high enough to change that narrative. Just depends on how much time he has and if we can keep him. Hoops we are screwed.

 

[Scooch]

I agree with you, on the most likely outcome. I think with Fran we can get our football brand high enough to change that narrative. Just depends on how much time he has and if we can keep him. Hoops we are screwed.

I'm not sure the "football brand" matters that much for us in the grand scheme of things. IMHO, the only chance we have of ending up in the B1G is if they decide to truly go big and become a league, not just a conference. That would entail them adding 10+ schools to their membership, and deciding to become the conference of the east coast, from New England to Florida.

I think that's unlikely, but never say never in the reactive, short-sighted, silly world of college athletics.

 

[kirbivore]

just for funsies i'd like to see the BIG12 and ACC combine, take smaller teams, create divisions, and let chaos reign

Do 4 divisions split with the map in mind. 8 conf games + a regional championship (1 vs 4, 3 vs 2) then maybe a total conference champ

idk - gotta do something, can't just sit there!