ACC Regrets?

[raf4488]

Agreed, but if anyone thinks we can regularly compete with UNC and Duke... the first four years of finishing in the middle of the pack has done nothing to show me we fit here. Maybe we weren't invited to the Big East because of football. I get it...

But this is a recruiting nightmare in the ACC. I think JB knew it was going to be a game changer when we joined. He wasn't too thrilled initially.

Correlation vs. causation - our fortunes started to decline in our second year in this league, but it has nothing to do with the conference change. Scholarship reductions and recruiting restrictions would hurt any program. Louisville is a top program just like we are, and they’re having a similar season after all the NCAA stuff hit.

SU is a national brand in any conference. Our recruiting restrictions were lifted recently and we landed a top 10 and a top 40 player. I’m not worried going forward.

 

[gbo]

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Yes I look at UCONN now and thank god we aren't in their boat, where would football be if we weren't in the ACC ? we would be playing home games versus UCF and Houston and those are the big draws. I certainly wasn't asking myself this question when we beat Duke in the Dome or when Cuse beat Clemson in football last year or when I have access to go to great football venues as well. Syracuse would have been forced to join the AAC. we are very fortunate to be in the ACC. I actually love the ACC, walking around Duke campus in shorts and a t-shirt in February doesn't suck. I get the frustrations with the both the hoops and football program but I still think better days are ahead for sure. It's not the conference it's the direction the football program went under Shafer for 3 years and the probabtion and reduced schollies. We have a GD hall of fame coach in hoops, sure he old and cranky but he can still coach if we get 7 players who can all play. It will happen

There's also the $$$ to consider which ain't chump change

 

[Arangeman]

We have a top 25 recruiting class coming in. How has recruiting in the ACC been affected?

Most have it top 15. And if top 25 is satisfactory, we got a problem.

 

[JazzNC]

Yes.



Never beat Duke consistently? Um, We're 3-4 vs Duke since we joined this conference. Four of those games were played at Cameron.

We currently have the 22 ranked recruiting class with one McDonalds All American. Another top 5o guy and another 4 year program guy. I would imagine that's about par for the course for Syracuse recruiting.



We're always going to be below Duke in the recruiting rankings if theyre gonna recruit like they are now. So is 99.9% of college basketball.



Joining the Big East was. not. happening. And we have nothing in common with Big 10 schools, with little alumni presence utside Chicago.



I will HAPPILY take "middle of the pack" in the best conference in America over our most likely alternate fate (American Athletic Conference.)

Reasonable responses, and I don't necessarily disagree. But I do think being in the ACC has hurt the program. Is it better than the alternatives? Probably... but I think over the long haul we will consistently be a middle of the pack team in this league. I guess it's debatable if that's in our best interest long term. Wish I could fast forward about 15 years and see.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Agreed, but if anyone thinks we can regularly compete with UNC and Duke... the first four years of finishing in the middle of the pack has done nothing to show me we fit here. Maybe we weren't invited to the Big East because of football. I get it...

But this is a recruiting nightmare in the ACC. I think JB knew it was going to be a game changer when we joined. He wasn't too thrilled initially.

Tough for anybody to compete when the NCAA takes away two scholarships, two players quit, and another 1-2 suffer season ending injuries.

When we're healthy and fully manned, we can hang with everybody.

 

[raf4488]

One could ask if the ACC regrets inviting us. Yes, they get new markets. But has the amount that we have brought in more than the amount given up when the pie was split for us?

Inviting SU allowed the ACC to renegotiate their ESPN contract at a time when the networks were throwing around huge money at these conferences. So yeah, they’ve brought in many times more revenue since we joined and I doubt they changed their mind because of a few mediocre hoops seasons.

 

[Ajflood12]

The team also has had a number of players surprisingly leave early since joining the ACC. Mali and Lydon weren't recruited to be 1 and done type players. Between guys leaving early and others just quitting on the team have destroyed depth. Besides 1 or 2 players it is like starting each year with an all new team.

 

[OrangeDW]

If the Big East that we left still existed, sure. Given that it’s gone, our only choice was which league we were joining...which really wasn’t much of a choice at all. ACC is the only one that makes any sense.

 

[Alsacs]

Inviting SU allowed the ACC to renegotiate their ESPN contract at a time when the networks were throwing around huge money at these conferences. So yeah, they’ve brought in many times more revenue since we joined and I doubt they changed their mind because of a few mediocre hoops seasons.

If the ACC doesn’t expand then the Big Ten, SEC carve up the ACC.
North Carolina is the king of the ACC. They didn’t want to be a pawn or bishop of another conference.
Florida State-Clemson wanted a commitment to football.
ACC went with Syracuse because we never sued them and fit the private schools and Pitt because UConn sued them and West Virginia’s academics scared them.

Maryland left for the Big Ten because of Debbie Yow. The ACC decided to give a bone to FSU and Clemson and gave them Louisville over UConn.

ESPN was going to pay the ACC 14.5 million a dollars a year thru 2024 if the conference didn’t expand that was an underpayment based on the exploding market. Which I believe has popped now but we are safe now.

The ACC is now with the margin of the SeC and Big Ten after the network launches in 2 years.

We made the right decision.

 

[AlaskaSU]

The reality is that the ACC was, hands down, our best option. Some fans thought that our new affiliation would boost our recruiting. I didn't and still don't. Did Big East affiliation help Rutgirls? We are a northern team in a south-centric conference, a duck out of water. I expect that we will not become chopped meat but we will not recruit as consistently well as we used to. When the Big East was the cat's meow, we had a recruiting edge that we no longer have. The next few years will be telling and they will be crucial.

 

[GooseMutt]

Out of curiosity, do you guys think Syracuse made the right decision to join the ACC?

In the Big East we were alpha dogs. Sure there was competition, but the competition wasn't blue bloods (Duke and UNC). Don't get me wrong, the Syracuse teams of old could compete against and beat Duke/UNC. But we've taken ourselves out of our domain. We'll never consistently beat UNC and Duke playing in the same conference because we've lost our edge in recruiting.

It was far less difficult to sell a kid to come play for Syracuse when we played in the Big East because we consistently were an upper echelon team. In the ACC, that's not happening because of Duke and UNC. Even with the nice recruiting class we've got coming in next season it's below Duke and UNC.

I actually think we'd be better off if we'd followed the Catholic schools and joined the new Big East. Heck, I think we'd be better off in the Big Ten too. There are no blue blood programs in the Big ten.

I think we may be a middle of the pack team in this conference most years because we lost our recruiting edge. An aging JB doesn't make it any easier. In this conference we're always going to be a notch below...

Syracuse bean counters love that we left

 

[JazzNC]

I guess I should have worded my initial post better. Yes, I think we'd be better in the Big East if that had been a possibility. I also think (just an opinion) that we'd match up better in the Big Ten, despite the lack of rivalries.

I don't necessarily think Syracuse was wrong to join the ACC, but I think it's a move that has ramifications. I don't think we will ever consistently be a top 2-3 team in this league. I guess I'm spoiled because I like winning championships. I liked our swagger. I miss being an alpha dog.

I also realize the sanctions have hurt us. But with the sanctions set to end, I still don't see us regularly competing for ACC supremacy. Sure we'll upset Duke and UNC from time to time. But the days of expecting a top 2-3 finish nearly every year are over. IMO. I miss the good ole days.

 

[Jake]

We had two choices. Join the ACC or become what UCONN is now.

There's no point to having this discussion.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Butler isn't a Catholic school , they are a private school that even has an FCS D1 football team in the "Pioneer League" though.

 

[orangepassion]

I liked the old Big East better, but that was no longer an option.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Have you seen Duke's recruiting class? Each of their 4 recruits is ranked higher than Bazely.

And teams in the Big East are ranked higher?????

 

[orangecuse]

We had two choices. Join the ACC or become what UCONN is now.

There's no point to having this discussion.

So true. Every single day all of us as fans, especially as diehards we're here, of SU football & basketball, should be counting our lucky stars and kissing the ACC's arse for saving us. That is not hyperbole.

 

[StopCoolio]

If you regret leaving, take a spin over to the Boneyard and read the Conference Realignment board. It'll make you feel better.

If the main argument is "We will never beat Duke consistently!", that's not too bad as the number of programs that beat Duke consistently is, umm, zero? Even UNC is 50/50, which is roughly where we are.

It's not like we were Kansas in the Big East and rattling off 20 straight conference titles. We were usually in the mix but we had our ups and downs there too, relatively speaking.

 

[stuckinbig11]

no other choice

 

[dasher]

Out of curiosity, do you guys think Syracuse made the right decision to join the ACC?

In the Big East we were alpha dogs. Sure there was competition, but the competition wasn't blue bloods (Duke and UNC). Don't get me wrong, the Syracuse teams of old could compete against and beat Duke/UNC. But we've taken ourselves out of our domain. We'll never consistently beat UNC and Duke playing in the same conference because we've lost our edge in recruiting.

It was far less difficult to sell a kid to come play for Syracuse when we played in the Big East because we consistently were an upper echelon team. In the ACC, that's not happening because of Duke and UNC. Even with the nice recruiting class we've got coming in next season it's below Duke and UNC.

I actually think we'd be better off if we'd followed the Catholic schools and joined the new Big East. Heck, I think we'd be better off in the Big Ten too. There are no blue blood programs in the Big ten.

I think we may be a middle of the pack team in this conference most years because we lost our recruiting edge. An aging JB doesn't make it any easier. In this conference we're always going to be a notch below...

Of course not. We will be fine in the ACC. the sanctions were killers. We would have been hurting in the Big east during this time period.

 

[AlaskaSU]

And teams in the Big East are ranked higher?????

The new Big East does not compare to the old Big East. The old Big East was the best conference. It was better than the ACC. This is like crying over spilled milk. I plead guilty.

 

[NKR1978]

Agreed, but if anyone thinks we can regularly compete with UNC and Duke... the first four years of finishing in the middle of the pack has done nothing to show me we fit here. Maybe we weren't invited to the Big East because of football. I get it...

But this is a recruiting nightmare in the ACC. I think JB knew it was going to be a game changer when we joined. He wasn't too thrilled initially.

I have no idea what you mean by a recruiting nightmare and how it's the ACC's fault.

 

[realorange]

Agreed, but if anyone thinks we can regularly compete with UNC and Duke... the first four years of finishing in the middle of the pack has done nothing to show me we fit here. Maybe we weren't invited to the Big East because of football. I get it...

But this is a recruiting nightmare in the ACC. I think JB knew it was going to be a game changer when we joined. He wasn't too thrilled initially.

It would just plain be a nightmare in the AAC. Would you really want to be in the league of lost schools?

 

[NKR1978]

One could ask if the ACC regrets inviting us. Yes, they get new markets. But has the amount that we have brought in more than the amount given up when the pie was split for us?

One could ask a lot of things. Literally everything.