ACC to Boeheim

[Day2]

He’s free to keep coaching elsewhere if he doesn’t want to retire and another employer wants him.

Has there been any indication that his current employer doesn’t want him?

 

[Day2]

He isn’t working as a member of the Geek Squad at Best Buy. His performance has a wide slew of ramifications. He is making peoples jobs more difficult, including several above him in rank, while himself not performing up to expectations. People in that set of circumstances generally have their departure time chosen for them.

If SU fires him or pushes him into retirement, I won’t protest. In case you haven’t noticed, that hasn’t happened, nor does it appear close to happening.

 

[Gotothehole]

If SU fires him or pushes him into retirement, I won’t protest. In case you haven’t noticed, that hasn’t happened, nor does it appear close to happening.

You stop getting older. You can’t fight it, you can’t ignore it.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

If SU fires him or pushes him into retirement, I won’t protest. In case you haven’t noticed, that hasn’t happened, nor does it appear close to happening.

That’s just swell. That makes it just fine. Just goes to show you how lack of leadership cripples institutions on the regular.

 

[Newhouser]

If SU fires him or pushes him into retirement, I won’t protest. In case you haven’t noticed, that hasn’t happened, nor does it appear close to happening.

So your basic belief is that since SU thinks he's doing a fine job that every fan should just blindly fall in line saying "all is well"?

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Enjoy your life in denial.

Do you have to be conscious of something before you can deny it?

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Both.

When JB decided to continue coaching six or seven years ago, my viewpoint at the time was that he had earned the right to leave on his terms. Why would that change? He either earned it or he didn’t. Do I think he should have retired by now? Yes. If he doesn’t want to, so be it.

People retire when they choose all the time, across a broad spectrum of professions. Even at JB’s age and beyond.

I don’t understand why your viewpoint can’t evolve along with the circumstances. I can understand why you might have said—six or seven years ago—that he’s earned the right. Heck, even I said he had earned the right. But, six or seven years later, when the trend continues and accelerated downward, and it became apparent that he is arrogant and delusional enough to not recognize that his continuing is selfish/not in the best interests of the program, and that there was not going to be some lovely, Hollywood, storybook reversal scenario… I would think a reasonable person would revise his viewpoint. It’s almost as if you made a declaration and you find it somehow unethical to go back on it. Or, maybe you think their is some honor in adhering to a bad idea. Or you don’t want to recognize a mistake because that recognition comes only with hindsight.

“So be it?” That I don’t understand either. Makes no sense to me how anyone who ‘loves’ the program can be so indifferent on one hand, yet invest so much time in it on the other.

Sure, people retire at will all the time. And people are relieved of that decision-making power all the time, as well. Typically, performance in the ‘near field‘ is a determining factor. Especially so when discussing businesses. And Syracuse basketball is most certainly a business. Unfortunately, JB is treating it like a family business, of which he is the sole proprietor.

 

[SmilinBob]

Is it possible Jim wanted to leave the program in a win 22+ shape when he left to hand it off while knowing he left it in good shape? And then...18 wins or less started happening and like a gambler in a sense, didn't want to leave the program like that and has been trying to win at 22+ but can't get to it due to X amount of circumstances?

That said, once he starts winning (final 4) it gets into his blood like a gambler in a sense and can't help himself and stays too long.

Also another thought along those lines, what if he hands the program off to a new HC as a 18 top win type team and they turn it into a 22+ win team again immediately? Is pride part of that in which he'd not be comfortable seeing a new coach do this this, especially one that would be from the outer circle and not a former assistant?

 

[MSOrange]

He isn’t working as a member of the Geek Squad at Best Buy. His performance has a wide slew of ramifications. He is making peoples jobs more difficult, including several above him in rank, while himself not performing up to expectations. People in that set of circumstances generally have their departure time chosen for them.

Exactly, there's a difference between the CEO and Milton where you can just move his desk to the basement with his stapler.

 

[Orangezoo]

Did I not bring up the close wins against ND and Louisville earlier in this thread? I acknowledge our floor. I recognize how bad our record could be. So why is it so hard for some of you to acknowledge our ceiling?

Didn't see it and was referencing the one post that did not address it... you are asking a lot to piece together your posts and views when they differ.

That said I'll restate that I've recognized our ceiling and called it out several times this year. Our ceiling has not been a constant with this group. Those bad losses limit our ceiling in terms of outcomes. The lack of execution late game is also a hindrance to this teams ceiling.

We are at absolute best a bubble team that sneaks in and maybe wins a game or two. There is no evidence we are a team that is going to beat a good non conference team so getting in is the best we can do/expect right now.

We have played the top conference teams tough but their coaching and execution beat us not to mention after UVA the level of talent is meh. We don't have the keystone piece at forward that gets us over the hump. We can get close and even almost pull it off but the youth and weakness in late game scenarios is a limiting factor.

So again I acknowledge the ceiling but our ceiling hinges on a lot to get there vs just talent being maximized. Benny isn't what we need him to be and we don't have a forward to step in. This is why Adams could be such a big help next year if our core sticks around and Jesse returns.

We have to have Joe, Judah, Jesse and one of the other frosh play well every game for a ceiling to be met. Cornette pointed out accurately which I caught in the re-watch that this just hasn't happened. That's a lot to ask. If they can do it for 6 straight games it's possible to achieve that ceiling.

Amidst all of this, the biggest issue is once again the defense. The zone is too permissive of outside shooting. So if we can't slow down our opponents, which advanced analytics makes clear we can't, then we can't reach our ceiling. That is coaching.

 

[tptcuse]

I have no idea what should or will happen, but I don't view coaching a high level Division 1 basketball team with a multi-million dollar salary similarly to other jobs in terms of retirement decision-making autonomy.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Seven years between two schools. JB has been at one school for 47 and had a lot more overall success than Holtman. Many of us believe JB has earned the right to leave on his terms.

So, if he says that he will retire at 80, you are okay with that, regardless of performance?

 

[Day2]

So your basic belief is that since SU thinks he's doing a fine job that every fan should just blindly fall in line saying "all is well"?

You can do whatever the hell you want.

 

[Day2]

I don’t understand why your viewpoint can’t evolve along with the circumstances. I can understand why you might have said—six or seven years ago—that he’s earned the right. Heck, even I said he had earned the right. But, six or seven years later, when the trend continues and accelerated downward, and it became apparent that he is arrogant and delusional enough to not recognize that his continuing is selfish/not in the best interests of the program, and that there was not going to be some lovely, Hollywood, storybook reversal scenario… I would think a reasonable person would revise his viewpoint. It’s almost as if you made a declaration and you find it somehow unethical to go back on it. Or, maybe you think their is some honor in adhering to a bad idea. Or you don’t want to recognize a mistake because that recognition comes only with hindsight.

“So be it?” That I don’t understand either. Makes no sense to me how anyone who ‘loves’ the program can be so indifferent on one hand, yet invest so much time in it on the other.

Sure, people retire at will all the time. And people are relieved of that decision-making power all the time, as well. Typically, performance in the ‘near field‘ is a determining factor. Especially so when discussing businesses. And Syracuse basketball is most certainly a business. Unfortunately, JB is treating it like a family business, of which he is the sole proprietor.

Well, your response has more to do with you than me, doesn’t it?

 

[Day2]

Didn't see it and was referencing the one post that did not address it... you are asking a lot to piece together your posts and views when they differ.

That said I'll restate that I've recognized our ceiling and called it out several times this year. Our ceiling has not been a constant with this group. Those bad losses limit our ceiling in terms of outcomes. The lack of execution late game is also a hindrance to this teams ceiling.

We are at absolute best a bubble team that sneaks in and maybe wins a game or two. There is no evidence we are a team that is going to beat a good non conference team so getting in is the best we can do/expect right now.

We have played the top conference teams tough but their coaching and execution beat us not to mention after UVA the level of talent is meh. We don't have the keystone piece at forward that gets us over the hump. We can get close and even almost pull it off but the youth and weakness in late game scenarios is a limiting factor.

So again I acknowledge the ceiling but our ceiling hinges on a lot to get there vs just talent being maximized. Benny isn't what we need him to be and we don't have a forward to step in. This is why Adams could be such a big help next year if our core sticks around and Jesse returns.

We have to have Joe, Judah, Jesse and one of the other frosh play well every game for a ceiling to be met. Cornette pointed out accurately which I caught in the re-watch that this just hasn't happened. That's a lot to ask. If they can do it for 6 straight games it's possible to achieve that ceiling.

Amidst all of this, the biggest issue is once again the defense. The zone is too permissive of outside shooting. So if we can't slow down our opponents, which advanced analytics makes clear we can't, then we can't reach our ceiling. That is coaching.

I’m asking a lot? Are you freaking kidding me? You guys aren’t worth it. Enjoy the Super Bowl.

 

[721Comstock]

Not any more the 2nd probation and then chasing away the coach in waiting ended that. He's the only coach to get his school put on probation twice.
Add to that 8 years of mediocrity, that's reason for him to be let go.
No one is more important then the University, and he is becoming a national embarrassment. This needs to end he is becoming Bobby Knight, and Woody Hayes. This isn't going to end well, if JB doesn't leave soon.

On top of all of which - dude is seventy eight now.

J-bone ain’t gonna find the Fountain of Youth and magically start putting in more effort with recruiting -
which is Job One for any successful coach, and one JAB has been mailing in for quite a while now.

(One could say that Juli was his Fountain of Youth that got him from 2003-2014, but there’s only so much she can do)

I was in the “yeah, but - sanctions!” crew of defending Boeheim for quite a while, but we are well past that, and it’s only gotten worse.

We used to get Top 50 guys on the regular, in a class with other Top 100 dudes.
And we used to get guys drafted into the first round of the NBA.

Neither of those things has happened for a loooong time now.

And we used to be ranked in Top 25 on the regular, compete for protected seeds in the NCAA, and be in the discussion for regular season and tournament ships.

Now, we’re lucky to be in the discussion for the bubble.

With the Portal & NIL, and the zone being ineffective at best, because every team has dudes who can hit open 3’s now -
the game has passed him by.

And all of his contemporaries have seen that.

This MUST be his final season.

 

[Cuse181]

You can do whatever the hell you want.

Haven’t seen you tell one person what to think/do

 

[Cuse181]

On top of all of which - dude is seventy eight now.

J-bone ain’t gonna find the Fountain of Youth and magically start putting in more effort with recruiting -
which is Job One for any successful coach, and one JAB has been mailing in for quite a while now.

(One could say that Juli was his Fountain of Youth that got him from 2003-2014, but there’s only so much she can do)

I was in the “yeah, but - sanctions!” crew of defending Boeheim for quite a while, but we are well past that, and it’s only gotten worse.

We used to get Top 50 guys on the regular, in a class with other Top 100 dudes.
And we used to get guys drafted into the first round of the NBA.

Neither of those things has happened for a loooong time now.

And we used to be ranked in Top 25 on the regular, compete for protected seeds in the NCAA, and be in the discussion for regular season and tournament ships.

Now, we’re lucky to be in the discussion for the bubble.

With the Portal & NIL, and the zone being ineffective at best, because every team has dudes who can hit open 3’s now -
the game has passed him by.

And all of his contemporaries have seen that.

This MUST be his final season.

If JBs comments are to be believed, we already know it’s not

 

[Orangezoo]

I’m asking a lot? Are you freaking kidding me? You guys aren’t worth it. Enjoy the Super Bowl.

As someone who has been overtly aggressive and demanding on other topics there is quite the irony in your approach on this one.

You left out any reference to the previous close wins in the post I responded to. Then point to the fact you did note them in an earlier post. So yeah it is a lot if you are asking others to look up your own view point you are being inconsistent on.