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ACC to Boeheim

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No, Cooley is meeting and exceeding the expectations for PC. JB is not. Big difference.
As Axe said this week, unlike football there is an infrastructure at SU bball to be better than they have been.
Right, which also means that infrastructure will still exist once JB retires. The losses and comments aren’t actually jeopardizing that.
 
That’s really more of a goal or an expectation. By ceiling, I mean what our record would be had we won all of the close games.

Had we just won the three games I mentioned, we would be in first place in the conference and firmly in the tournament. I get it, we didn’t win those games and the committee doesn’t take close losses into consideration. That’s not the point. The point is we are that close to meeting just about everyone’s expectations.

And that’s why I think most of you refuse to acknowledge it. Because it would also mean conceding that JB can still coach. I know he’s a lazy recruiter and that recruiting is part of coaching. Just focusing on the games, though, with the talent he has and the one defense he insists on playing, we’re a few missed rebounds, questionable calls, and unlucky bounces away from being pretty damn good. The team has improved over the course of the season. JB may not be the coach he once was, but he’s still better than most.

BTW, Providence lost to SJU today, so I guess Cooley is off the table now.
Day2 - I completely respect you as a poster, and as a defender of JB, but I think you are working way too hard to defend him in every way. Of course his 47 years have been mostly extremely good but he has not been up to par lately. I think that defending him on every little issue is not convincing anyone. We all remember the great moments for the BB program and. An acknowledge that JB is the mastermind for all of that. But he is fading in every aspect and is a shadow of the coach he once was. Defending him on any single issue isn’t changing any minds. The consensus has shifted and it’s not going back in his favor. Every little thing is like another straw on the camel’s back. And there have been too many straws, and the cumulative weight of those straws is getting very heavy. Not any one straw has broken the camel’s back but…….
 
Take Chris Holtman at Ohio State, first year he will miss the tournament in his last 7 between Butler and OSU and buckeye fans want to run him out. That's holding to high expectations in comparison to JB.
Seven years between two schools. JB has been at one school for 47 and had a lot more overall success than Holtman. Many of us believe JB has earned the right to leave on his terms.
 
Right, which also means that infrastructure will still exist once JB retires. The losses and comments aren’t actually jeopardizing that.
Ok, so you didnt say it but I can infer that you are fine with JB underperforming in comparison to the expectations.

Forgive me but, I dont understand the logic of people being able to keep their jobs when they don't perform to standards and expectations.

Thats what we pay an AD for to make that decision and "Administrate."
 
Georgetown and Louisville have become 'national jokes'. We're 15-10 and 8-6 in a power conference and our coach told the truth then the league didn't want him to and doesn't like being criticized.
If it was just the product on the court, I agree we're not a national joke, just irrelevant. It's the comments of our coach that have combined with that mediocre product to make us a bit of a joke lately.
 
Day2 - I completely respect you as a poster, and as a defender of JB, but I think you are working way too hard to defend him in every way. Of course his 47 years have been mostly extremely good but he has not been up to par lately. I think that defending him on every little issue is not convincing anyone. We all remember the great moments for the BB program and. An acknowledge that JB is the mastermind for all of that. But he is fading in every aspect and is a shadow of the coach he once was. Defending him on any single issue isn’t changing any minds. The consensus has shifted and it’s not going back in his favor. Every little thing is like another straw on the camel’s back. And there have been too many straws, and the cumulative weight of those straws is getting very heavy. Not any one straw has broken the camel’s back but…….
I appreciate that. This is SWC’s premise, though. People just want JB gone and will use anything he says or does as proof. It’s become over-the-top. JB is not doing irrevocable harm to the program. He’s just taking longer to leave than expected. But he will leave and we will hire a great coach and we will return to glory. Patience is being tested, I get it.
 
Seven years between two schools. JB has been at one school for 47 and had a lot more overall success than Holtman. Many of us believe JB has earned the right to leave on his terms.
Are you an SU fan or a JB Fan?

Im curious, like if he runs them into a 3-24 season do you still believe he has earned the right to leave on his terms? What is the goal here, to win games or to accommodate JB?

Point im making is a Head Coach is just a highly compensated employee. They dont get to call their shot, JB even had to admit that this week.
 
I AM THE PROGRAM

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So nothing other than what was retracted?
Not sure I'm understanding your point, Day. Are you suggesting that the retractions somehow absolve JB of the stupidity and inappropriate nature of his comments? If that's your point, then let me clarify: I absolutely agree with most of what he said. The point here is not to whether what he said was "true" etc., but whether he should've said it in the first place.
My take is that he shouldn't have said it. As a representative of our great university and face of the program, toe the company line, do your job, and go home. Unless of course you believe that you ARE the program, and it's all about you, no? Whether true or not, that's how it comes off.You hate the state of cbb so much, then retire- like a couple of your buddies have opted to do. What makes you so special? Because cbb is not about to change, is it- that horse has literally left the barn. Show some decorum, recognize that you represent more than just yourself and your opinion, and then frankly S.. t... ... u.. about it. It's called tack, diplomacy, and reality..etc. JMHO
 
Ok, so you didnt say it but I can infer that you are fine with JB underperforming in comparison to the expectations.

Forgive me but, I dont understand the logic of people being able to keep their jobs when they don't perform to standards and expectations.

Thats what we pay an AD for to make that decision and "Administrate."
No, I’m just fine with waiting.
 
I appreciate that. This is SWC’s premise, though. People just want JB gone and will use anything he says or does as proof. It’s become over-the-top. JB is not doing irrevocable harm to the program. He’s just taking longer to leave than expected. But he will leave and we will hire a great coach and we will return to glory. Patience is being tested, I get it.

I can appreciate that. I’m not (that much of) a d@&@.
 
That’s really more of a goal or an expectation. By ceiling, I mean what our record would be had we won all of the close games.

Had we just won the three games I mentioned, we would be in first place in the conference and firmly in the tournament. I get it, we didn’t win those games and the committee doesn’t take close losses into consideration. That’s not the point. The point is we are that close to meeting just about everyone’s expectations.

And that’s why I think most of you refuse to acknowledge it. Because it would also mean conceding that JB can still coach. I know he’s a lazy recruiter and that recruiting is part of coaching. Just focusing on the games, though, with the talent he has and the one defense he insists on playing, we’re a few missed rebounds, questionable calls, and unlucky bounces away from being pretty damn good. The team has improved over the course of the season. JB may not be the coach he once was, but he’s still better than most.

BTW, Providence lost to SJU today, so I guess Cooley is off the table now.

What you are describing here is Rutgers/Providence/Seton Hall from the BE days. They could all make that argument over the years. Thus I think you are over valuing those near misses . If the league was top 3 in the conference discussions there is a bit more to what you are trying to say I think. The what ifs represent the reality that this team doesn't have what it needs on the bench or the floor to find a way to win those games.

In addition if you are going to make that case, then you also have to look at Richmond, Notre Dame and Louisville. All games that could have flipped the other way and all weak teams.

The other thing is just look at the non conference losses year over year both to good teams and bad teams. A weaker ACC has been beneficial to our records these past few years that would very possibly have been worse when the league was much better.

When at his best JB was winning a large share of the non conference games, not losing multiple buy games and setting the stage for the conference slate. Even the above average teams faired better in the non conference and rarely dropped a buy game.

So the what if losses are far more representative of the state of the program than being a few bounces from top of the conference.
 
It is baffling to me truly baffling that this thread is at 7 pages and we have multiple people defending JB in this thread. It is a decade long sample size at this point and it isn't a bad run of a couple of season it has been going on for a decade now. A DECADE...Like if you can't see it is past time for him to go then you are here for JB and not Syracuse at this point. It is a gross malpractice that he is still allowed ALLOWED to be the coach of this university.
 
He’s earned the right to leave on his terms.

So is the basketball program the James Arthur Boeheim Orange and not the Syracuse Orange? If that is the true way fans and alums should see it then maybe it makes sense to call it as such. Once he decides it's time then it's the university's program again. Is that a fair way to explain it or am I missing something?
 
He’s earned the right to leave on his terms.
This is where I see the defense of JB as too much. I spent my life as a teacher. If I did a good job I got to return the next year. If I started giving kids I didn’t like and on every assignment, or started yelling at kids daily, or started doing any number of such negative things, my job would be in jeopardy, regardless of what I had done n previous years.
 
It is baffling to me truly baffling that this thread is at 7 pages and we have multiple people defending JB in this thread. It is a decade long sample size at this point and it isn't a bad run of a couple of season it has been going on for a decade now. A DECADE...Like if you can't see it is past time for him to go then you are here for JB and not Syracuse at this point. It is a gross malpractice that he is still allowed ALLOWED to be the coach of this university.

There is nothing wrong with folks supporting JB here- every single one of us I believe wants for the best possible ending to his career at SU. The perception you are relaying is what I can see has some folks pretty heated. We are just debating.
 
It is baffling to me truly baffling that this thread is at 7 pages and we have multiple people defending JB in this thread. It is a decade long sample size at this point and it isn't a bad run of a couple of season it has been going on for a decade now. A DECADE...Like if you can't see it is past time for him to go then you are here for JB and not Syracuse at this point. It is a gross malpractice that he is still allowed ALLOWED to be the coach of this university.
Its Idol Worship

It like the JoePa worship at Ped St thank god its only a small minority here I think as opposed to the majority there
 
Yup, One tourney in four years at Syracuse is pathetic.
Agreed. But there’s a slight asterisk. There was no tourney in 2020—for anyone. Sure, you can argue we wouldn’t have made it, but no one can be sure b/c we had just beat UNC in convincing fashion. And no teams made the tourney that year, so I don’t think it can count for or against anyone. Either way, 9 years of largely subpar seasons by Cuse standards (with a few exceptions…2016, 2019, and 2021) isn’t acceptable.
 
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