Akok Akok in the portal

[OttoinGrotto]

Hard to see Symir not playing.

Symir, Joe, Judah

Benny, two other guys.

Jesse, one other guy.

That’s how I see it.

Man, I think you're right but I really, really hope beyond all reason and JB tendency that Copeland can 5 minutes a game.

Next season will be interesting. JB usually subs in 3 guys in the first half, and then nobody but the starters sees time in the 2nd half unless circumstances dictate he's got to play somebody else.

With such a raw forward rotation next season, odds are low he's going to be able to roll that way.

 

[Orangezoo]

You are right. Still need to account for SF. Gotta be Bunch and Taylor splitting this up, though I guess you could argue that Benny could play some minutes here too. But he was so limited last season, I think the only way we can play him is at the 4.

The split between Bunch and Taylor could be pretty much anything. 20 and 20. More likely 25 and 15. Or even 30 and 10.

So 3 guards play.

And 4 forwards play.

And 2 centers. Maybe only 1 if JB decides he likes Brown and is willing to give up rebounding and maybe some defense to get a better offensive player in the game.

Could be 9 players playing then. I hate to predict that because it rarely seems to happen. But the forwards are all so green and unproven, I am finding it hard to see any of them playing 35 mpg.

I think at this point outside of Mintz, Joe, Jesse and Benny( lesser of the absolutes), everything else is way up in the air. Given Quadirs size for instance, if he comes in day 1 and blows everyone away then do we go guard heavy given he has sf size? With Copeland, Taylor and Bunch you really have any number of combinations that could unfold. Add Brown to that mix and it gets even more difficult to predict.

Also would JB drop everyone's jaw and do something wild with a legit 3 guard lineup at times given Symirs experience?

From the tape Bunch, Taylor and Copeland all have shown they can be up and down. So it's not easy to have a feel for who is going to make the jump. Brown, against lesser competition, easily has the more consistent performances on tape/record. Carey is a big question mark. One part unlikely he has a chance to get a look, the other his skillset is so unique he could also show up and not just as a 5. Kind of wild how many unknowns.

Lastly, and unlikely but possible- nobody is really ready to go day 1 besides Mintz and the lack of bringing in that transfer forward sinks us.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I think at this point outside of Mintz, Joe, Jesse and Benny( lesser of the absolutes), everything else is way up in the air. Given Quadirs size for instance, if he comes in day 1 and blows everyone away then do we go guard heavy given he has sf size? With Copeland, Taylor and Bunch you really have any number of combinations that could unfold. Add Brown to that mix and it gets even more difficult to predict.

Also would JB drop everyone's jaw and do something wild with a legit 3 guard lineup at times given Symirs experience?

From the tape Bunch, Taylor and Copeland all have shown they can be up and down. So it's not easy to have a feel for who is going to make the jump. Brown, against lesser competition, easily has the more consistent performances on tape/record. Carey is a big question mark. One part unlikely he has a chance to get a look, the other his skillset is so unique he could also show up and not just as a 5. Kind of wild how many unknowns.

Lastly, and unlikely but possible- nobody is really ready to go day 1 besides Mintz and the lack of bringing in that transfer forward sinks us.

I just don't want this crap where minutes are assigned to unknowns before they're even practicing on campus.

 

[Orangezoo]

I just don't want this crap where minutes are assigned to unknowns before they're even practicing on campus.

Right- kind of what I'm getting at too. We know literally nothing about any of these frosh until they get here aside from mqybe Mintz. We also don't even know Benny that well in terms of his growth. That makes 6 very big unknowns and we need 3 of those to come through probably 4. That is a lot to ask.

 

[sutomcat]

Hard to see Symir not playing.

Symir, Joe, Judah

Benny, two other guys.

Jesse, one other guy.

That’s how I see it.

I forgot Symir. Yes, agree he will play some. Quadir is going to have a hard time finding minutes his frosh season. I wonder if he might get a chance to play some at SF if our other frosh SFs struggle?

Probably not.

 

[cuseguy]

I think at this point outside of Mintz, Joe, Jesse and Benny( lesser of the absolutes), everything else is way up in the air. Given Quadirs size for instance, if he comes in day 1 and blows everyone away then do we go guard heavy given he has sf size? With Copeland, Taylor and Bunch you really have any number of combinations that could unfold. Add Brown to that mix and it gets even more difficult to predict.

Also would JB drop everyone's jaw and do something wild with a legit 3 guard lineup at times given Symirs experience?

From the tape Bunch, Taylor and Copeland all have shown they can be up and down. So it's not easy to have a feel for who is going to make the jump. Brown, against lesser competition, easily has the more consistent performances on tape/record. Carey is a big question mark. One part unlikely he has a chance to get a look, the other his skillset is so unique he could also show up and not just as a 5. Kind of wild how many unknowns.

Lastly, and unlikely but possible- nobody is really ready to go day 1 besides Mintz and the lack of bringing in that transfer forward sinks us.

It’s going to sink us. That’s not even a question. We’ll be lucky if next year’s team is as successful as last year’s team.

 

[cuseguy]

I forgot Symir. Yes, agree he will play some. Quadir is going to have a hard time finding minutes his frosh season. I wonder if he might get a chance to play some at SF if our other frosh SFs struggle?

Probably not.

Surprised if Copeland plays at all. He makes Benny look like a sharpshooter, so playing forward isn’t going to work.

Next season really concerns me.

 

[Cuse1055]

With Ballard pretty much a done deal now, I’m really hoping we still reach out to Akok Akok and find a way to get him here.

 

[cuseguy]

With Ballard pretty much a done deal now, I’m really hoping we still reach out to Akok Akok and find a way to get him here.

We’re not interested.

 

[Cuse1055]

We’re not interested.

One word: ugh

 

[Niastri]

Man, I think you're right but I really, really hope beyond all reason and JB tendency that Copeland can 5 minutes a game.

Next season will be interesting. JB usually subs in 3 guys in the first half, and then nobody but the starters sees time in the 2nd half unless circumstances dictate he's got to play somebody else.

With such a raw forward rotation next season, odds are low he's going to be able to roll that way.

We really could see a situation where JB uses his short hook on a series of players until he runs out, then has to put the first guy back in.

And it might happen at multiple positions.

The only guys who have secure playing time are Girard and Edwards. Torrence, Mintz and Williams have the inside track to extended playing time, but each has shortcomings that could get them pulled. (Even if Mintz' only shortcoming is being a freshman, which could happen. He looks really good.)

The other forwards either already have a history of getting pulled, or are freshman and thus prone to freshman mistakes. This covers Brown, JBA Taylor and Bunch.

And then you have Copeland who is both a freshman and had given us copious in-game video of doing stuff that will get you benched. I suspect he gets about as much time as Chaz Owens this year. Hopefully he's still around next year.

SWC once surmised after a study of JB's substitution patterns that JB plays more guys when he's looking for answers.

Next year, a lot of guys are going to get some time. Let's hope JB finds some answers he likes.

 

[cuseguy]

We really could see a situation where JB uses his short hook on a series of players until he runs out, then has to put the first guy back in.

And it might happen at multiple positions.

The only guys who have secure playing time are Girard and Edwards. Torrence, Mintz and Williams have the inside track to extended playing time, but each has shortcomings that could get them pulled. (Even if Mintz' only shortcoming is being a freshman, which could happen. He looks really good.)

The other forwards either already have a history of getting pulled, or are freshman and thus prone to freshman mistakes. This covers Brown, JBA Taylor and Bunch.

And then you have Copeland who is both a freshman and had given us copious in-game video of doing stuff that will get you benched. I suspect he gets about as much time as Chaz Owens this year. Hopefully he's still around next year.

SWC once surmised after a study of JB's substitution patterns that JB plays more guys when he's looking for answers.

Next year, a lot of guys are going to get some time. Let's hope JB funds some answers he likes.

Brace for a long year. I’m a bit surprised many can’t see this.

 

[007]

Hard to see Symir not playing.

Symir, Joe, Judah

Benny, two other guys.

Jesse, one other guy.

That’s how I see it.

Makes sense. Based on JB's history, especially the recent history, I expected to see the "regular" rotation to mostly be:
3 Gs
3 Fs
1.5 Cs

I fully expected that JB will want to roll with Jesse, Joe and Judah 35+/game - assuming Jesse can play that long without fouling out. Symir deserves to play more, hoping he gets more than 10/game.

 

[Orangezoo]

Brace for a long year. I’m a bit surprised many can’t see this.

I don't think there is a lack of seeing that. Having a legit lead guard and a legit Center does however provide a path to a season that isn't a disaster. The forward position makes or breaks it all. No offense but no one, not even you knows whether this class can produce outside Mintz. So while I think we all agree it would be likely much better with a portal F who can come right in, we don't know that it relegates us to failure.

 

[cuseguy]

I don't think there is a lack of seeing that. Having a legit lead guard and a legit Center does however provide a path to a season that isn't a disaster. The forward position makes or breaks it all. No offense but no one, not even you knows whether this class can produce outside Mintz. So while I think we all agree it would be likely much better with a portal F who can come right in, we don't know that it relegates us to failure.

Just my hunch based on observations and common sense. Benny will need to match Jimmy’s production, so he’ll need to go from 2 ppg to 12. Possible but no guarantee. We’ll need about 14 ppg from the other forward spot. Can Bunch or a combination of young, unproven forwards provide that? We’re also looking to replace Buddy’s 19 ppg and a lot of big baskets. Who’s our go-to guy now? As I see it, we’ve got a lot more questions than answers.

 

[Orangezoo]

Just my hunch based on observations and common sense. Benny will need to match Jimmy’s production, so he’ll need to go from 2 ppg to 12. Possible but no guarantee. We’ll need about 14 ppg from the other forward spot. Can Bunch or a combination of young, unproven forwards provide that? We’re also looking to replace Buddy’s 19 ppg and a lot of big baskets. Who’s out go-to guy now? As I see it, we’ve got a lot more questions than answers.

I broke it down quite detailed in another thread. We need to replace between 40 and 50 ppg from last year and we need to improve defensively by 10-12 ppg. The biggest lift on that will be improvement from Benny and the production of Mintz with incremental increases from Jesse, Joe and Symir. We need 15-18 ppg from the other frosh plus Ballard. A vet at F gets us there quickly for sure. Unknowns can make failure more likely but not an absolute.

 

[UpstateSM]

Judah needs to be an NBA player and one of the freshmen forwards needs to be a stud from day one if this is what we’re rolling with. Not impossible but this didn’t need to be the case.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Brace for a long year. I’m a bit surprised many can’t see this.

I think a lot of people see it.

 

[SWC75]

JB's normal pattern is to play everyone early and see "who is ready to help us" and what combinations work the best and then to use a 7-8 man rotation once the conference season starts. But that's when the conference season was 16 or 18 games and there were a lot of early games when you can play everybody. Now he's got a 20 game conference season that invades November and December, along with a tournament, the ACC-Big Ten Challenge, Coaches vs. Cancer, etc. That makes it tougher to have a shake down cruise.

As to dealing with JBA and Chazz, I see nothing wrong to "having the conversation" with them about their likelihood of getting playing time and maybe lining up a situation for them. If they choose to not go, OK, those spots are filled. What I would object to is the process of 'running off' an unwanted to player to free his scholarship by pressuring him to leave. (I always think of Pruitt in "From Here to Eternity" being pressured to box by giving him 'the treatment').

 

[Sherman20]

Maybe. Or maybe you are totally off base.

What I could see happening is a scenario where a couple of years ago, Billy calls JB and says his son really wants to play for Syracuse. I know he will never play in a real game and he isn’t good enough to deserve a scholarship. But is there any chance you can do me a solid and find a scholarship for him?

I would hope JB would say something like ‘Yes, I have an open one for the coming season and Chaz is welcome to take it. However, I can’t promise it for future years. If I need it for a player to make the team better, I am going to have to take it. If you and Chaz are okay with this year by year assessment whether the scholarship can be renewed, let’s make it happen’.

I think this is how walk on scholarships work. I don’t think it is the same as athletes who were recruited hard and clearly belong at this level.

But I could be wrong. And maybe JB likes Chaz and Billy too much to pull the scholarship.

More likely, he just doesn’t want to add another player on the roster that could be perceived as a threat to playing time for any of the incoming frosh. Maybe he promised Benny if Judah comes, I will not add another forward to the roster, even if Cole leaves.

To me, it should be clear to JB that the rules have changed. No players are going to be loyal to the program because they love Syracuse. That block S means nothing if a player isn’t getting the playing time they think they deserve.

Even next year, I think you have to expect JB is going to play 8 players max.

We know Jesse is going to be the center and let’s pencil in Quincy as the backup for now. If Quincy doesn’t come, it might be another portal transfer. Or who knows, maybe it ends up being Carey. But we will play 2 centers. Jesse and someone else.

We know JGIII is going to play a lot. Probably a mix of PG and SG. I am thinking Judah plays 30 minutes at PG. JG is probably going to play 10 minutes at PG and 25 minutes at SG.

Let’s assume Taylor or Bunch plays the other 15 minutes at SG. If you are a Quadir guy, maybe JGIII plays SG for 35 minutes, Judah plays 25 at PG and 5 at SG and Quadir plays 15 minutes at PG.

Whatever the breakdown is, whoever the players are that play, I expect 3 in the regular rotation.

That covers all positions but PF.

Let’s assume Benny plays 25 minutes there. Can’t see him playing more than that given how much he struggled last season. That leaves 15 minutes for Bunch, or Taylor or Brown to split up. Realistically, JB is going to end up playing one and the other two will rarely play.

Bottom line, we are probably going to see 3 guards, 3 forwards and 2 centers play. And there is going to be a guard and a forward unhappy. If we being in another scholarship forward, it gets worse.

Thinking JB might have promised the guys in the incoming class he was not going to bring in a player from the portal at their positions. Hence, the only position we are considering a portal transfer is at center…..

Huh? You never once mention who is going to play small forward. And what about Symir, who I expect to be the third guard. Back to the drawing board with you. Lol.

 

[Sherman20]

It’s going to sink us. That’s not even a question. We’ll be lucky if next year’s team is as successful as last year’s team.

If that’s the case, why is JB not portal pounding? He’s fine with *another* losing season? I just can’t imagine that.

 

[walsh2012]

So you would explain to a former alum, one who was an important part of our history that his kid has to give up his scholarship? It's not as simple as winning matters.

Yes, I would and any athlete would understand. He would be free to transfer to a program that could offer him a scholarship, but no parent or player is bigger than the team.

It's totally as simple as winning matters, this is not a daycare center, it's a basketball program trying to win basketball games. Check emotion at the door and win. How old is Chaz? 21? He's old enough to not be patronized. Keeping him on scholly just because he's a daddy's boy is quite frankly insulting to any competitor.

 

[cuseguy]

I broke it down quite detailed in another thread. We need to replace between 40 and 50 ppg from last year and we need to improve defensively by 10-12 ppg. The biggest lift on that will be improvement from Benny and the production of Mintz with incremental increases from Jesse, Joe and Symir. We need 15-18 ppg from the other frosh plus Ballard. A vet at F gets us there quickly for sure. Unknowns can make failure more likely but not an absolute.

We’re not gong to get much from the freshmen forwards. They should be getting limited minutes in reserve roles. This isn’t just speculation on my part.

 

[Cusefan0307]

We’re not gong to get much from the freshmen forwards. They should be getting limited minutes in reserve roles. This isn’t just speculation on my part.

It is though. Multiple people can watch the same players play and get different opinions.

 

[Orangezoo]

We’re not gong to get much from the freshmen forwards. They should be getting limited minutes in reserve roles. This isn’t just speculation on my part.

Well if we go 12-19 then there won't be much more to say but when do things change. You can't predict anything though. Just look at Woody early season last year.