And then there were two, the Cavs and Warriors

[OrangeDW]

Sure it would change the series. But the roster isn't as hapless as some would like to pretend. That's the Lebron apologist narrative.

Obviously they aren't the same with those players. On the other hand, maybe those players would have changed the on-court chemistry in terms of how the games are played. You don't just roll the ball out and have five all stars play.

They clearly were playing with great chemistry the last few months of the season.

The roster isn't hapless, but there's not a lot there on the offensive end right now. Lebron basically has to do everything, and while he's more up to that task than any other player in the league would be, it's tough to win a championship that way especially against a 67 win team.

 

[longislandcuse]

They constructed a team with Kevin Love and Kyrie.

This team without those two is not good. Sure TT is a great ORebounder. Mozgov can be a solid contributor. JR is...well... JR.

I have no sympathy for them since LeBron is basically the acting GM.

But none of that changes the fact that this rotation minus Bron wouldn't make the east playoffs.

Bron scored or assisted on 70/91 points tonight. He is the whole team.

Can we replace Lebron with another max player or we just saying take a teams best player away and they wouldn't make the playoffs somehow validates something.

 

[two3zone]

Sure it would change the series. But the roster isn't as hapless as some would like to pretend. That's the Lebron apologist narrative.

Obviously they aren't the same with those players. On the other hand, maybe those players would have changed the on-court chemistry in terms of how the games are played. You don't just roll the ball out and have five all stars play.

C Mozgov
PF Thompson
SF JR Smith
SG Shumpert
PG Deledova

Jones
Miller
Marion
Heywood
Harris
Perkins


If that's not hapless, what is? That team is worse than what the Knicks put out this year, hell, it's pretty much what the Knicks put out there. Pretty much add Melo to that team and you have 3 of the 5 Knicks starters this year and they couldn't win a damn game. This team blows without Lebron and it's simple to see that.

 

[RF2044]

I don't understand how a team that lost the first game of the series had better momentum after the game. I don't get how that makes any sense at all.

I also don't understand how it's a FACT that the better team lost. The team that wins the game is the better team in that game.

They played 2 overtime games, split those games, seems like it's been pretty close up until game 4, not sure how you can say momentum was anywhere, let alone calling it a fact.

They played better three games in a row. They happened to lose one of those games. The sports media, the dopey Cleveland fanbase, and everybody else was sensing blood in the water after game three. The Cavs had the opportunity to go up 3-1 and take a commanding lead in the series. The Cavs were playing an incredibly physical brand of basketball that was mitigating the talent differential, and their role players were stepping up and making plays.

You don't consider that momentum? If not, you're applying odd revisionist logic.

The problem for the Cavs is that GS figured out their gimmick defense and made adjustments. Then, they won game 4 on the road in Cleveland. And they flipped the momentum by continuing their solid offensive play via small ball tonight.

Again, not sure what part of this you aren't connecting with. If you don't believe that Cleveland had momentum earlier in the series, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[longislandcuse]

C Mozgov
PF Thompson
SF JR Smith
SG Shumpert
PG Deledova

Jones
Miller
Marion
Heywood
Harris
Perkins


If that's not hapless, what is? That team is worse than what the Knicks put out this year, hell, it's pretty much what the Knicks put out there. Pretty much add Melo to that team and you have 3 of the 5 Knicks starters this year and they couldn't win a damn game. This team blows without Lebron and it's simple to see that.

As a Knicks fan.

STOP IT.

Seriously dude. No.

The Knicks best player was Langston Galloway. Really...

 

[two3zone]

Can we replace Lebron with another max player or we just saying take a teams best player away and they wouldn't make the playoffs somehow validates something.

Of course it validates something, the better team is going to win most of the time. The team that surrounds James is garbage outside of him and it would be extremely difficult for any other max player in the place of Lebron to win even one game in this series let alone 2 and taking one into overtime.

 

[MikeSU02]

Can we replace Lebron with another max player or we just saying take a teams best player away and they wouldn't make the playoffs somehow validates something.

Like Carmelo?

Put Melo in for Bron and tell me where this team is.

Because it sure isn't anywhere in the same hemisphere as 3-2 in the Finals.

 

[two3zone]

They played better three games in a row. They happened to lose one of those games. The sports media, the dopey Cleveland fanbase, and everybody else was sensing blood in the water after game three. The Cavs had the opportunity to go up 3-1 and take a commanding lead in the series. The Cavs were playing an incredibly physical brand of basketball that was mitigating the talent differential, and their role players were stepping up and making plays.

You don't consider that momentum? If not, you're applying odd revisionist logic.

The problem for the Cavs is that GS figured out their gimmick defense and made adjustments. Then, they won game 4 on the road in Cleveland. And they flipped the momentum by continuing their solid offensive play via small ball tonight.

Again, not sure what part of this you aren't connecting with. If you don't believe that Cleveland had momentum earlier in the series, I don't know what to tell you.

What adjustments? There weren't many other than the MVP actually making a better percentage of his shots.

 

[RF2044]

What adjustments? There weren't many other than the MVP actually making a better percentage of his shots.

What adjustments???? They went to small ball to spread the floor and mitigate Cleveland's better interior play.

What series are you watching?

Honestly.

 

[two3zone]

Like Carmelo?

Put Melo in for Bron and tell me where this team is.

Because it sure isn't anywhere in the same hemisphere as 3-2 in the Finals.

The Knicks roster outside of Melo isn't far off from this current Cavs roster, and we all know how well the Knicks did this year with Melo.

 

[two3zone]

What adjustments???? They went to small ball to spread the floor and mitigate Cleveland's better interior play.

What series are you watching?

Honestly.

So Curry actually shooting the ball better hasn't been the biggest factor? Give me a break. There's a reason Golden State lost those two games and you can mention the offensive schemes all day, but take a look at how Curry did in all 5 games and report back to me. Sorry, when their MVP played poorly, they lost, when he played like an MVP they won. It's not some magical Steve Kerr magic that won the games, Golden State is a well coached, excellent, excellent team, one of the best we've seen in the past couple of decades, but Curry not showing up had more to do with their losses than anything else.

 

[MikeSU02]

The Knicks roster outside of Melo isn't far off from this current Cavs roster, and we all know how well the Knicks did this year with Melo.

Ya. I'm not sure what the arguments are here.

The Cavs roster without Kyrie and Love, outside of LeBron, stinks.

That's what happens when you have three superstars. The rest of your roster isn't great. Some solid pieces, including TT, but overall it stinks.

Even with that, LeBron is putting up historic numbers... In his fifth straight Finals.

 

[longislandcuse]

Like Carmelo?

Put Melo in for Bron and tell me where this team is.

Because it sure isn't anywhere in the same hemisphere as 3-2 in the Finals.

Nobody is saying that but Melo and this team would make the playoffs, contend and possibly beat a beat up Chicago and Atlanta.

 

[longislandcuse]

The Knicks roster outside of Melo isn't far off from this current Cavs roster, and we all know how well the Knicks did this year with Melo.

This narrative needs to die in a fire. There is no comparison aside from Shump and JR. Even Delly is better than Calderon and Larkin. Thompson and Mozgov straight up **** on the Knicks bigs. All Cleveland's shooters are better than Hardaway Jr and co.

Stop trying to make this comparison happen. It's not going to happen.

 

[two3zone]

Ya. I'm not sure what the arguments are here.

The Cavs roster without Kyrie and Love, outside of LeBron, stinks.

That's what happens when you have three superstars. The rest of your roster isn't great. Some solid pieces, including TT, but overall it stinks.

Even with that, LeBron is putting up historic numbers... In his fifth straight Finals.

Problem is man, if people say that his roster is as bad as it actually is then it looks like they're giving credit to Lebron, which they don't want to do. In their hearts Melo is still better than him and is their hero. It's a shame that they have such deep seeded hatred for somebody who really has no effect in their lives who just so happens to be one of the best basketball players to ever live. He gets crapped on more than Bonds did and is close to Arod. (I personally enjoyed watching Bonds and Arod)

I don't understand why greatness cannot be appreciated, unfortunately people are just so bitter and probably jealous that they can't get over themselves to enjoy something amazing.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Why are scrubs like Miller and James Jones on the Cavs roster?

It's hard to say it was a mistake to sign them given it's what Lebron wanted and they did make the finals, but it is a good example of why letting players make personnel decisions carries some risk. Jones has always been marginal, and Miller looked down years ago. They didn't cost much, but given the depth issues it sure feels like they could have gotten more production out of those dollars. Maybe they thought they'd get Ray Allen too and figured one out of three would make a difference.

 

[MikeSU02]

Nobody is saying that but Melo and this team would make the playoffs, contend and possibly beat a beat up Chicago and Atlanta.

We can agree to disagree.

There is zero chance Melo and this crew competes with the Bulls and Hawks. Zero.

 

[RF2044]

So Curry actually shooting the ball better hasn't been the biggest factor? Give me a break. There's a reason Golden State lost those two games and you can mention the offensive schemes all day, but take a look at how Curry did in all 5 games and report back to me. Sorry, when their MVP played poorly, they lost, when he played like an MVP they won. It's not some magical Steve Kerr magic that won the games, Golden State is a well coached, excellent, excellent team, one of the best we've seen in the past couple of decades, but Curry not showing up had more to do with their losses than anything else.

None of which has anything to do with your absurd comments above about momentum not being a tangible thing.

Early in the series, Curry wasn't on. Cleveland played better, thus they had momentum. Now, the Warriors are playing better. They are hitting shots they weren't hitting in the first three games. Now, they have momentum.

You are splitting hairs about why that is the case--nobody disputes that Curry has played better of late--but if you don't think that momentum has "shifted" in this series, you are deluding yourself. And for it to have shifted, it was clearly favoring the opposite team earlier in the series.

Momentum is a fickle thing.

 

[RF2044]

Problem is man, if people say that his roster is as bad as it actually is then it looks like they're giving credit to Lebron, which they don't want to do. In their hearts Melo is still better than him and is their hero. It's a shame that they have such deep seeded hatred for somebody who really has no effect in their lives who just so happens to be one of the best basketball players to ever live. He gets crapped on more than Bonds did and is close to Arod. (I personally enjoyed watching Bonds and Arod)

I don't understand why greatness cannot be appreciated, unfortunately people are just so bitter and probably jealous that they can't get over themselves to enjoy something amazing.

Complete and utter bunk.

A convenient straw man argument, though.

Those darn haters!!!

 

[two3zone]

This narrative needs to die in a fire. There is no comparison aside from Shump and JR. Even Delly is better than Calderon and Larkin. Thompson and Mozgov straight up **** on the Knicks bigs. All Cleveland's shooters are better than Hardaway Jr and co.

Stop trying to make this comparison happen. It's not going to happen.

Delladova blows dude, I'd take Calderon or Larkin over him.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/dellama01.html

Mozgov isn't great, has never played more than 25 minutes a game, never averaged 10+ points a game, never averaged 8+ boards a game.

 

[two3zone]

Complete and utter bunk.

A convenient straw man argument, though.

Those darn haters!!!

You're a Lebron fan or not? I'm guessing you have deep seeded hatred for him, it shows.

 

[RF2044]

You're a Lebron fan or not? I'm guessing you have deep seeded hatred for him, it shows.

Nope, I do not root for him. However, I don't have any "hatred" for him. There is a differnce between not rooting for a player, and hatred.

Which is why your BS attribution above is complete straw man bunk.

 

[longislandcuse]

We can agree to disagree.

There is zero chance Melo and this crew competes with the Bulls and Hawks. Zero.

The one year the Knicks were good they had Melo and a bunch of garbage by NBA Finals standards. That team wasnt too far off from what Cleveland is right now. He somehow led those guys. This isn't even the point though, Lebron is great and we all know this but his team is not a bunch of bums. That's a false narrative you've been fed by media hyping up Lebron.

 

[MikeSU02]

The one year the Knicks were good they had Melo and a bunch of garbage by NBA Finals standards. That team wasnt too far off from what Cleveland is right now. He somehow led those guys. This isn't even the point though, Lebron is great and we all know this but his team is not a bunch of bums. That's a false narrative you've been fed by media hyping up Lebron.

That's a sweet #hatehard take you got going.

If you want to keep that up, go ahead.

 

[longislandcuse]

That's a sweet #hatehard take you got going.

If you want to keep that up, go ahead.

It's not hating man. It's called not being a #nuthugger