And then there were two, the Cavs and Warriors

[longislandcuse]

It's not hating to say Lebron doesn't have a crap roster. I think Lebron has been amazing in this postseason and especially the Finals. I also agree that not too many other players could make this a competitive series aside from Lebron. Maybe a Westbrook, CP3, Curry type because that player needs to be able to handle the ball 95% of the time and play good defense. Even then, I doubt they win 3 games, maybe take 2.

Dellavedova is a serviceable player who has made his mark on the Finals and had two above average games for any player, not just him. Shumpert is meh, good on ball defender, and a decent 3 point shooter from the side. JR Smith is one of the best 6th man candidates in the league. Say what you want about him but not too many 6th men have his talent or ability to get hot, which is all you really want from a 6th man. Aside from his tendency to do something stupid, he also plays solid defense. Thompson/Mozgov is an upper echelon PF/C tandem. They just are. Cleveland has tw figure out a way to play both of them in Game 6 if they want a chance to win. Guys like Jones and Miller are extremely average but give Lebron what he needs out of role players, someone to space the floor and knock down open 3's. This team was constructed to fit Lebron like a glove.

Kevin Love wouldn't change this series, he would just be a glorified 3 point shooter. Kyrie might but it could be for the better or for the worse since it would also have allowed GS to play their style in Games 2 and 3.

I'm also getting incredibly tired of people saying "Well imagine if Lebron couldn't play Game 6, what would the spread be?". Ok, umm, take Curry off Golden State and what would the spread be. In case everyone is missing this, Curry is playing 1 on 2 every time down the floor while the rest of the Warriors are going 4 on 3. Imagine how much better Cleveland's defense would be if they didn't double someone every time down the floor.

 

[Knicks411]

Lebron has a much bigger impact on the spread than Curry though. Come on.

Guys like Jones and Miller are extremely average but give Lebron what he needs out of role players, someone to space the floor and knock down open 3's. This team was constructed to fit Lebron like a glove.

Strong disagree here. Miller and Jones are way below average players. If you think they are average players, then sure, the roster isn't crap. But Miller can barely move on the court. And Jones is one of the most one dimensional players in the league. he can only catch and shoot. He can literally do nothing else. And Delly shot 36% from the field. He's doing a job on Curry but he is in no way a starting guard in the NBA.

And I also disagree that the team is set up perfectly for Lebron; Mozgov and Thompson are probably the second and third best players on the team, and I think they should play together more, but they do kill the spacing when they are both on the court. Love would really help them here as they could play him and Thompson and get much more shooting on the court.

I basically think you are overrating every role player on the roster. I do like the big guys, and like I said, I think they should play together more, but they kill the spacing. I think those are the only other starting caliber players on the roster.

 

[longislandcuse]

Lebron has a much bigger impact on the spread than Curry though. Come on.



Strong disagree here. Miller and Jones are way below average players. If you think they are average players, then sure, the roster isn't crap. But Miller can barely move on the court. And Jones is one of the most one dimensional players in the league. he can only catch and shoot. He can literally do nothing else. And Delly shot 36% from the field. He's doing a job on Curry but he is in no way a starting guard in the NBA.

And I also disagree that the team is set up perfectly for Lebron; Mozgov and Thompson are probably the second and third best players on the team, and I think they should play together more, but they do kill the spacing when they are both on the court. Love would really help them here as they could play him and Thompson and get much more shooting on the court.

I basically think you are overrating every role player on the roster. I do like the big guys, and like I said, I think they should play together more, but they kill the spacing. I think those are the only other starting caliber players on the roster.

I should have clarified, I meant fit like a glove with (at the risk of sounding Dr. Seussian) Kevin Love.

I'll take bench role players who can come in and knock down threes. Maybe i'm just used to the garbage the Knicks have been throwing out there.

Yea, Lebron absolutely has more of an impact than Curry, but Curry still has a pretty big influence on the game. How do you think these Warriors are getting open looks and open lanes to the basket? It's because Cleveland's entire defense is predicated on doubling Curry and a quick recovery. If Curry doesn't play, Golden State gets romped by this Cleveland team. Livingston and Thompson cannot run that offense and create open looks like Curry.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Lebron has a much bigger impact on the spread than Curry though. Come on.



Strong disagree here. Miller and Jones are way below average players. If you think they are average players, then sure, the roster isn't crap. But Miller can barely move on the court. And Jones is one of the most one dimensional players in the league. he can only catch and shoot. He can literally do nothing else. And Delly shot 36% from the field. He's doing a job on Curry but he is in no way a starting guard in the NBA.

And I also disagree that the team is set up perfectly for Lebron; Mozgov and Thompson are probably the second and third best players on the team, and I think they should play together more, but they do kill the spacing when they are both on the court. Love would really help them here as they could play him and Thompson and get much more shooting on the court.

I basically think you are overrating every role player on the roster. I do like the big guys, and like I said, I think they should play together more, but they kill the spacing. I think those are the only other starting caliber players on the roster.

Great post. Cleveland still has a great frontline without Love, but this isn't a bigs series as you said. They are losing this series because their guards are absolute garbage. Dellavedova stinks. He wouldn't even see the court if he played for Golden State, and you can probably say the same thing about Shumpert.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I should have clarified, I meant fit like a glove with (at the risk of sounding Dr. Seussian) Kevin Love.

I'll take bench role players who can come in and knock down threes. Maybe i'm just used to the garbage the Knicks have been throwing out there.

Yea, Lebron absolutely has more of an impact than Curry, but Curry still has a pretty big influence on the game. How do you think these Warriors are getting open looks and open lanes to the basket? It's because Cleveland's entire defense is predicated on doubling Curry and a quick recovery. If Curry doesn't play, Golden State gets romped by this Cleveland team. Livingston and Thompson cannot run that offense and create open looks like Curry.

I disagree to a degree here. Livingston runs the point when he comes in the game, and Curry moves to the 2. Livingston might start for maybe 14 teams in the league. Heck, he would of been the Knicks best player this year. Curry is averaging 26, 6, and 6 in the series. Lebron's at 36, 12, and 9.

 

[Knicks411]

I should have clarified, I meant fit like a glove with (at the risk of sounding Dr. Seussian) Kevin Love.

I'll take bench role players who can come in and knock down threes. Maybe i'm just used to the garbage the Knicks have been throwing out there.

Yea, Lebron absolutely has more of an impact than Curry, but Curry still has a pretty big influence on the game. How do you think these Warriors are getting open looks and open lanes to the basket? It's because Cleveland's entire defense is predicated on doubling Curry and a quick recovery. If Curry doesn't play, Golden State gets romped by this Cleveland team. Livingston and Thompson cannot run that offense and create open looks like Curry.

I'm not going to hate on Curry, I think the guy is incredible and changes the game in a way no one else ever has because he basically can shoot from anywhere and it's going in. (the behind the back step back three he made toward the end last night, just insane)

I agree on Love; the offense would be a lot more devastating if they could play Love and Thompson together.

 

[longislandcuse]

I disagree to a degree here. Livingston runs the point when he comes in the game, and Curry moves to the 2. Livingston might start for maybe 14 teams in the league. Heck, he would of been the Knicks best player this year. Curry is averaging 26, 6, and 6 in the series. Lebron's at 36, 12, and 9.

But that's still accounting for Curry. Take Curry out and teams aren't that worried about Livingston/Thompson.

 

[Knicks411]

I would assume the Cavs would be favored if Curry wasn't playing.

 

[ssbriefcase]

I said becoming an all star if used appropriately. Obviously the Cavs didn't use him in a way that I consider appropriate to getting him there. Which makes sense since they have so much invested in three ball hogs already (that's more harsh than I mean it, just couldn't find another word for ball hog). I think jordoo more adequately explained what I meant there.

Consider he averaged 10/7 with three of the biggest players in the game who like to dominate the ball as much as they do. LeBron does share more when it's possible, but you get my meaning.

Small tidbit, but something I can't get out of my head. When George Karl was asked after he was fired as coach of the Nuggs, if he had regrets, out of everything he could've said was, I wish I would've handled Mozgov better. Or something to that effect.

 

[RF2044]

By the way, in no way do I mean to diminish the exploits of LeBron in this series. He's been out of this world. He gets tired at the end of games and doesn't seem to be adjusting to the fact he isn't going to get all the calls he normally does. Shooting as well he did last night, I thought trying to drive the ball into lane was kind of a bad play.

All that said, really fun series to watch. Can't wait for the next game. Kind of want the Cavs to win so I don't have to watch my awful Red Sox butcher the game of baseball any sooner than I have to.

I was thinking the same thing as the game ended yesterday. 40 points. Another triple double. Even in a losing effort, wow.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I was thinking the same thing as the game ended yesterday. 40 points. Another triple double. Even in a losing effort, wow.

I heard Greenburg on Mike and Mike saying starting Iggy isn't having that big an impact on the games, but I completely disagree. It has completely stopped the early run that Cleveland would go on without him to start the games. And it makes LeBron have to work so much harder to get his, thus impacting his endurance and how he ends the games.

 

[jordoo]

I was thinking the same thing as the game ended yesterday. 40 points. Another triple double. Even in a losing effort, wow.

And even gassed he did come out and give the Cavs some life in the 4th. He hit that huge 3 but then it was Curry time and there wasn't much more he could do. I think this is by far his best finals and the shooting percentages are more an indication of how much he has to do than poor shooting.

 

[jordoo]

I heard Greenburg on Mike and Mike saying starting Iggy isn't having that big an impact on the games, but I completely disagree. It has completely stopped the early run that Cleveland would go on without him to start the games. And it makes LeBron have to work so much harder to get his, thus impacting his endurance and how he ends the games.

For sure Iggy has at least made it more tiring for Lebron to get his triple double. Mike and Mike are really pretty useless when it comes to bball IMO, they just do not get the nuances or overall strategy like they do with fball.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I heard Greenburg on Mike and Mike saying starting Iggy isn't having that big an impact on the games, but I completely disagree. It has completely stopped the early run that Cleveland would go on without him to start the games. And it makes LeBron have to work so much harder to get his, thus impacting his endurance and how he ends the games.

Mike and Mike are out there sometimes. I wonder if they even watch when the game is on that late and they have a show at 6 am. Lebron's shooting about 30% when Iggy guards him.

 

[MikeSU02]

For sure Iggy has at least made it more tiring for Lebron to get his triple double. Mike and Mike are really pretty useless when it comes to bball IMO, they just do not get the nuances or overall strategy like they do with fball.

I barely listen to them, but I listened this morning hoping there would be a good guest. It was awful.

Compared to guys like Zach Lowe or others, it's night and day.

 

[longislandcuse]

And even gassed he did come out and give the Cavs some life in the 4th. He hit that huge 3 but then it was Curry time and there wasn't much more he could do. I think this is by far his best finals and the shooting percentages are more an indication of how much he has to do than poor shooting.

That back to back Lebron/Curry 3 point sequence was jaw dropping.

 

[MikeSU02]

I was thinking the same thing as the game ended yesterday. 40 points. Another triple double. Even in a losing effort, wow.

He had 20/8/8 in the first half, and, as you said, another monster game with a triple double.

I hate combination stats to prove someone's worth (Ex: there have only been five guys to get 7pts, 10 rebs, 12 assists, 2 steals, 4 blocks and drink a diet coke during a game) because it's really arbitrary. So take this FWIW, but I thought this was crazy:

 

[Knicks411]

I heard Greenburg on Mike and Mike saying starting Iggy isn't having that big an impact on the games, but I completely disagree. It has completely stopped the early run that Cleveland would go on without him to start the games. And it makes LeBron have to work so much harder to get his, thus impacting his endurance and how he ends the games.

Only thing I have with this is Iggy started Game 4 and the Cavs scored the first 7 points of the game. They did start slowly last night though.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Mike and Mike are out there sometimes. I wonder if they even watch when the game is on that late and they have a show at 6 am. Lebron's shooting about 30% when Iggy guards him.

They talked a bit about this as well. Greenberg at least does not. He DVRs it and then gets up at 3 to speed through it.

 

[MikeSU02]

Only thing I have with this is Iggy started Game 4 and the Cavs scored the first 7 points of the game. They did start slowly last night though.

It's a serious sign of the times that last year Kawhi got FMVP and Iggy is even in the running this year.

Wing defenders are at such a premium now, especially when playing Bron.

I'll now return to staring at the Knicks roster and sobbing uncontrollably.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Anyone else catch LeBron complaining to the refs about Iggy using his off hand to ward off a defender that wasn't even LeBron last night? It was on a drive where Iggy scored. I thought it was hysterical to see Lebron whine about offensive players pushing off to gain an advantage.

 

[jordoo]

Anyone else catch LeBron complaining to the refs about Iggy using his off hand to ward off a defender that wasn't even LeBron last night? It was on a drive where Iggy scored. I thought it was hysterical to see Lebron whine about offensive players pushing off to gain an advantage.

There is entirely too much whining going on for both sides. Its often the case in the playoffs because its a series and they want to be getting certain calls regularly. I do like that they have for the most part not been giving the offensive players the calls when they initiate contact although yeah pretty much everyone is using the off hand/elbow/shoulder on there drives in this series and none more so than Lebron. I think the play you were talking about was Iggy driving on a fast break and Smith was called for the foul. Iggy did push a little bit but Smith had yet to establish good position infront of him from what I saw.

 

[Knicks411]

It's a serious sign of the times that last year Kawhi got FMVP and Iggy is even in the running this year.

Wing defenders are at such a premium now, especially when playing Bron.

I'll now return to staring at the Knicks roster and sobbing uncontrollably.

Tim Hardaway Jr doesn't do it for you?
I'm kinda locked in on them going for Demarre Carroll.

 

[longislandcuse]

Anyone else catch LeBron complaining to the refs about Iggy using his off hand to ward off a defender that wasn't even LeBron last night? It was on a drive where Iggy scored. I thought it was hysterical to see Lebron whine about offensive players pushing off to gain an advantage.

He's been so good that I can actually deal with his whining...I did think the Delly chicken wing on Green and intentional kick steal on Curry were just so "Delly".

 

[Knicks411]

He's been so good that I can actually deal with his whining...I did think the Delly chicken wing on Green and intentional kick steal on Curry were just so "Delly".

One of those was super dirty and the other one was a play everyone would try and make.

I think Green is giving Lebron a run for his money for guy who complains the most