And then there were two, the Cavs and Warriors

[RF2044]

That's a sweet #hatehard take you got going.

If you want to keep that up, go ahead.

Ah, yes--the "hater" accusation.

The sports debate position of last resort. :crazy:

 

[Orangezoo]

The cavs made a huge push this year when they added mozgov to the mix and started to get consistent production from JR and Shumpert. Kyrie was a huge loss but given what dellevadova has given them these finals he helped fill a major gap. This is not garbage around lebron. Mozgov is a legit big man with great defensive instincts. Thompson is one of the best offensive rebounding pfs in the league. The cavs problem has been their rotation and failure to run anything when lebron isnt out there. JR also hasnt been able to do enough and be a constant threat to let lebron sit. Add to that the short bench isnt helping things.

To say cleveland has nothing though come on... he has pieces around him. JR has game changing ability when hes on and has been a big part of the cavs run.

 

[MikeSU02]

Ah, yes--the "hater" accusation.

The sports debate position of last resort. :crazy:

Not sure you get what the hashtag actually means.

But I don't really care. We don't have to agree.

You can keep on the TT/Mozgov/JR Smith supporting cast is solid bandwagon.

I'll stay on one of the greatest players of all time is carrying a crap supporting cast bandwagon.

 

[two3zone]

The one year the Knicks were good they had Melo and a bunch of garbage by NBA Finals standards. That team wasnt too far off from what Cleveland is right now. He somehow led those guys. This isn't even the point though, Lebron is great and we all know this but his team is not a bunch of bums. That's a false narrative you've been fed by media hyping up Lebron.

Dude, Tyson Chandler was on that team and an All Star, what All Star is on the team currently outside of Lebron?

 

[two3zone]

Ah, yes--the "hater" accusation.

The sports debate position of last resort. :crazy:

 

[Orangezoo]

It is quite comical how some seem to post with only the intention to be contrarian despite the fact they have really no sign of a cogent argument.

 

[Orangezoo]

You sure you quoted the right post? If so.. it makes zero sense...

 

[two3zone]

You sure you quoted the right post? If so.. it makes zero sense...

It wasn't supposed to, as his post made no sense at all and pointless, figured I'd fill one in as well.

 

[RF2044]

Not sure you get what the hashtag actually means.

But I don't really care. We don't have to agree.

You can keep on the TT/Mozgov/JR Smith supporting cast is solid bandwagon.

I'll stay on one of the greatest players of all time is carrying a crap supporting cast bandwagon.

Hashtags are dumb.

And you are mischaracterizing my position with respect to the rosters. Clearly, Cleveland doesn't have enough firepower to win this series [and they still could] with this group. They miss Irving and Love immensely. But in no universe is Tristain Thompson "crap." Ditto Mozgov. Smith... I'll grant you that one, since he is such an inconsistent knucklehead. I side with longislandcuse on this one--not to say that the supporting cast is great, just that it isn't as bad as some would like to make it out to be.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Hashtags are dumb.

And you are mischaracterizing my position with respect to the rosters. Clearly, Cleveland doesn't have enough firepower to win this series [and they still could] with this group. They miss Irving and Love immensely. But in no universe is Tristain Thompson "crap." Ditto Mozgov. Smith... I'll grant you that one, since he is such an inconsistent knucklehead. I side with longislandcuse on this one--not to say that the supporting cast is great, just that it isn't as bad as some would like to make it out to be.

Seriously. If they decided to use Mosgov appropriately, I could see that kid becoming an All Star. But when you have a guy like LeBron who needs the middle to be clear so he can bull in there to score/get to the line, then there just isn't enough space for him on the floor. And let's not underestimate the effect of a defensive superstar like Shumpert.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Theres a lot of truth to both sides of the arguments I'm reading above.

I think Cleveland caught Golden State by Surprise in games 2 and 3 by playing slow. If Kyrie had not got injured, I believe Cleveland would of tried to play an up and down game which would of played into Golden States hands, and they beat Cleveland head to head with Kyrie basically playing all of game 1.

Cleveland was able to stay in the series by slowing down the pace in games and Golden State wasn't anticipating a rock fight. I do believe there was some element of surprise in the games 2 and 3 wins. If Kyrie is playing I believe the series would of been more up and down.

Clevelands supporting cast outside of Lebron isn't great, but it's not complete garbage either. Tristan, Shumpert, JR, and Mozgov are legit NBA players, they just aren't guys you would count on to be 2nd and 3rd scorers. I'd rather have Mozgov than Bogut for example.

As great as Lebron has been, he is still shooting sub 40% for the series. He's expending so much energy, Cleveland has no firepower to finish games. They have been outscored by 43 points in the 4th quarter and OT in the series.

We need to put an end to the "everyone hates Lebron" mantra. He used that as motivation in Miami, but he's the most popular athlete in the states. Since he came back to Cleveland that whole mantra has been debunked. I don't hate Lebron, but I am rooting for Golden State, so I am a Lebron hater? Seems silly.

 

[MikeSU02]

Seriously. If they decided to use Mosgov appropriately, I could see that kid becoming an All Star. But when you have a guy like LeBron who needs the middle to be clear so he can bull in there to score/get to the line, then there just isn't enough space for him on the floor. And let's not underestimate the effect of a defense superstar like Shumpert.

The Cavs drastically tried to diversify the offense last night, but GSW stopped them at each turn.

So what did they have to do? Go back to Bron hero ball because there is nothing else to do.

People that are saying Mozgov could have just replicated his game four are merely armchair coaching this morning. Mozgov is ok.

GSW went on a run to start with Mozgov out there and Cle can't afford to be down big at any point. So they pulled him and it worked at first.

They were in the game until Bron got gassed. Along with the rest of the guys.

And Mozgov being an all star? He averaged 10/7 this year. His only chance would be if he chains himself to LeBron and a number of centers get hurt in the east.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Theres a lot of truth to both sides of the arguments I'm reading above.

I think Cleveland caught Golden State by Surprise in games 2 and 3 by playing slow. If Kyrie had not got injured, I believe Cleveland would of tried to play an up and down game which would of played into Golden States hands, and they beat Cleveland head to head with Kyrie basically playing all of game 1.

Cleveland was able to stay in the series by slowing down the pace in games and Golden State wasn't anticipating a rock fight. I do believe there was some element of surprise in the games 2 and 3 wins. If Kyrie is playing I believe the series would of been more up and down.

Clevelands supporting cast outside of Lebron isn't great, but it's not complete garbage either. Tristan, Shumpert, JR, and Mozgov are legit NBA players, they just aren't guys you would count on to be 2nd and 3rd scorers. I'd rather have Mozgov than Bogut for example.

As great as Lebron has been, he is still shooting sub 40% for the series. He's expending so much energy, Cleveland has no firepower to finish games. They have been outscored by 43 points in the 4th quarter and OT in the series.

We need to put an end to the "everyone hates Lebron" mantra. He used that as motivation in Miami, but he's the most popular athlete in the states. Since he came back to Cleveland that who mantra has been debunked. I don't hate Lebron, but I am rooting for Golden State, so I am a Lebron hater? Seems silly.

Your second to last sentence is my current position.

But... As popular as he is, he is still one of the most disliked athletes, imo. All you have to do is look at social media.

 

[Knicks411]

The supporting cast is one of the worst to make the finals in a very long time. Agree or disagree? 07 cavs, and then maybe the 01 sixers?
The perimeter players are incredibly hit or miss. Delly has had a nice run, but he shot 36% from the field this year. he has given Steph some problems on defense but he's a terrible offensive player.

The two bigs I think are pretty damn good though. I think Cleveland needs to go with more Mozgov/Thompson lineups. But they are basically playing a 7 man rotation and they don't have a whole lot. I think if you swapped Lebron for any other player in the league it's a sweep.

The scoring margin in the 4th qtr/OT is something I saw on twitter last night and is huge; pretty much tells the whole story. There is a big part of me that thinks the Warriors have the Cavs figured out and are going to close things out on Tuesday; I'd say the only chance the cavs have is if Lebron goes nuts but he had a 40 point triple double last night and they still lost.

 

[MikeSU02]

The supporting cast is one of the worst to make the finals in a very long time. Agree or disagree? 07 cavs, and then maybe the 01 sixers?
The perimeter players are incredibly hit or miss. Delly has had a nice run, but he shot 36% from the field this year. he has given Steph some problems on defense but he's a terrible offensive player.

The two bigs I think are pretty damn good though. I think Cleveland needs to go with more Mozgov/Thompson lineups. But they are basically playing a 7 man rotation and they don't have a whole lot. I think if you swapped Lebron for any other player in the league it's a sweep.

The scoring margin in the 4th qtr/OT is something I saw on twitter last night and is huge; pretty much tells the whole story. There is a big part of me that thinks the Warriors have the Cavs figured out and are going to close things out on Tuesday; I'd say the only chance the cavs have is if Lebron goes nuts but he had a 40 point triple double last night and they still lost.

I agree with you up until playing both bigs a lot.

There just isn't space for Bron to attack.

You can do it for some of the game, but expecting a lineup that big to keep up with GSW is asking a lot.

TT is a guy that will get his available max. He's very good at getting offensive rebounds.

Mozgov is ok. But we're talking 10/7.

If that doesn't scream average, I don't know what does.

 

[jordoo]

Seriously. If they decided to use Mosgov appropriately, I could see that kid becoming an All Star. But when you have a guy like LeBron who needs the middle to be clear so he can bull in there to score/get to the line, then there just isn't enough space for him on the floor. And let's not underestimate the effect of a defense superstar like Shumpert.

I thought last night when they rested Lebron they should have rested Tompson as well and had Mosgov posting up the whole time with as many shooters as possible out there. At least that would be some sort of offensive scheme with Lebron on the pine.

 

[jordoo]

The Cavs drastically tried to diversify the offense last night, but GSW stopped them at each turn.

So what did they have to do? Go back to Bron hero ball because there is nothing else to do.

People that are saying Mozgov could have just replicated his game four are merely armchair coaching this morning. Mozgov is ok.

GSW went on a run to start with Mozgov out there and Cle can't afford to be down big at any point. So they pulled him and it worked at first.

They were in the game until Bron got gassed. Along with the rest of the guys.

And Mozgov being an all star? He averaged 10/7 this year. His only chance would be if he chains himself to LeBron and a number of centers get hurt in the east.

I don't think they can play Mosgov and Thompson together against Golden St. You are also right that Mosgov isn't going to get 20 a night at this point but he can be effective in the post so why not go to that when you sit Lebron. It could buy you an extra minute or two of rest and Cleveland without Lebron on the court has yet to show much of anything offensively.

As great as Lebron has been Golden St. is also getting used to the iso offense and wound up with a bunch of steals off doubling and forcing a tough pass.

 

[jordoo]

I agree with you up until playing both bigs a lot.

Yep Golden St. has figured out they just run all the time on makes and misses with both Thompson and Mosgov in the game. It also clogs up Ceveland's offense because both want to work inside and there isn't room. Plus if Lebron is in you have to clear that side and the lane for his iso offense but you don't have to really guard Mosgov or Thompson away from the ball. It makes doubling Lebron and jumping the passing lanes well worth the risk.

 

[Knicks411]

I agree with you up until playing both bigs a lot.

There just isn't space for Bron to attack.

You can do it for some of the game, but expecting a lineup that big to keep up with GSW is asking a lot.

TT is a guy that will get his available max. He's very good at getting offensive rebounds.

Mozgov is ok. But we're talking 10/7.

If that doesn't scream average, I don't know what does.

From the numbers I've seen, the Mozgov/Thompson lineups have done pretty well in the series. I know there are issues with the spacing, but they also absolutely crush them on the glass with those lineups. There are no easy answers though

 

[jordoo]

From the numbers I've seen, the Mozgov/Thompson lineups have done pretty well in the series. I know there are issues with the spacing, but they also absolutely crush them on the glass with those lineups. There are no easy answers though

While this is true, Golden St. has adjusted as well. They are running like crazy with both in now and they are ignoring both bigs away from the basket so they can double, help on drives and jump the passing lanes. Sometimes it looked like a box n 1 with Iggy on Lebron.

 

[longislandcuse]

Dude, Tyson Chandler was on that team and an All Star, what All Star is on the team currently outside of Lebron?

Lol... ahh yes Tyson Chandler, "the All-Star". Mozgov and Thompson are both as good as Tyson Chandler was for us in those playoffs, or as Knicks fans would say, "flu Tyson".

 

[Knicks411]

Lol... ahh yes Tyson Chandler, "the All-Star". Mozgov and Thompson are both as good as Tyson Chandler was for us in those playoffs, or as Knicks fans would say, "flu Tyson".

Chandler was a deserving all star that season but he wasn't the same player by the time the playoffs rolled around.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

And Mozgov being an all star? He averaged 10/7 this year. His only chance would be if he chains himself to LeBron and a number of centers get hurt in the east.

I said becoming an all star if used appropriately. Obviously the Cavs didn't use him in a way that I consider appropriate to getting him there. Which makes sense since they have so much invested in three ball hogs already (that's more harsh than I mean it, just couldn't find another word for ball hog). I think jordoo more adequately explained what I meant there.

Consider he averaged 10/7 with three of the biggest players in the game who like to dominate the ball as much as they do. LeBron does share more when it's possible, but you get my meaning.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

By the way, in no way do I mean to diminish the exploits of LeBron in this series. He's been out of this world. He gets tired at the end of games and doesn't seem to be adjusting to the fact he isn't going to get all the calls he normally does. Shooting as well he did last night, I thought trying to drive the ball into lane was kind of a bad play.

All that said, really fun series to watch. Can't wait for the next game. Kind of want the Cavs to win so I don't have to watch my awful Red Sox butcher the game of baseball any sooner than I have to.

 

[Cusefan0307]

By the way, in no way do I mean to diminish the exploits of LeBron in this series. He's been out of this world. He gets tired at the end of games and doesn't seem to be adjusting to the fact he isn't going to get all the calls he normally does. Shooting as well he did last night, I thought trying to drive the ball into lane was kind of a bad play.

All that said, really fun series to watch. Can't wait for the next game. Kind of want the Cavs to win so I don't have to watch my awful Red Sox butcher the game of baseball any sooner than I have to.

I don't know the stats, but his shooting percentage in the fourth quarter of this series has to be below 30%. He's below 40 for the series, and all of his bad quarters have been at the end of games.

Going back to the 4th quarter of game 3, Golden State has now outscored Cleveland by 44 points. I'll be surprised if it's a game with 3 minutes to go tomorrow.