Another 10-Loss Season...

[Janner]

Or not.

*cough* NCAA sanctions *cough*

With a side of unexpected early departures, mixed with a few key recruiting misses.

And VIOLA!! the last 5 years.

That's defiantly one way to look at it, I get the feeling there are many others who may look at it a bit differently

 

[Col. Bleep]

I still don't think losing 10 games in a regular season constitutes a good year.

Agreed!

This is the Syracuse University Orange.
We should expect to win EVERY game.
That used to be the mindset.
It's not any more.
All these losses = mediocrity.
That's something we should never accept.

 

[OrangeDW]

This season can still go down as a very good one...or one of our most disappointing ever. We win our last 3 and go 12-6 in the ACC, and do well in the postseason...say two wins in each tournament, and we’re looking at this as a good, solid season. Anything deeper than that and it’s a great season overall.

We win only one more regular season game (or none) and get knocked out round 1 of both tourneys or somehow end up in the NIT, and this is probably our most disappointing season of all time.

We’ll see how it goes.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Agreed!

This is the Syracuse University Orange.
We should expect to win EVERY game.
That used to be the mindset.
It's not any more.
All these losses = mediocrity.
That's something we should never accept.

Amazing what 4 years of NCAA sanctions can do to a program.

 

[Alsacs]

Amazing what 4 years of NCAA sanctions can do to a program.

How many years from 2006-2014 did Syracuse have 13 division 1 players without a walk-on scholarship or a project like Devon Brennan-McBride/Mike Williams/Chino Obokoh on scholarship? The answer is pretty telling.

The sanctions cost us Kevin Huerter. The sanctions being a major reason for this medicority has little support when you look at JB’s history of having a short rotation.

It’s not why we have struggled all these years. People can say recruiting for the zone is why we struggled and it’s just as valid as the sanctions excuse.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

If there were never any sanctions, if there were never any scholarship reductions or recruiting restrictions ... how many more wins would the program have right now?

Bonus question: If Ennis had come back for his soph year and if McCullough stayed healthy ... how far does this team go in the 2015 NCAA Tournament?

The 'what if" game keeps me up at night.

 

[FrancoPizza]

How many years from 2006-2014 did Syracuse have 13 division 1 players without a walk-on scholarship or a project like Devon Brennan-McBride/Mike Williams/Chino Obokoh on scholarship? The answer is pretty telling.

The sanctions cost us Kevin Huerter. The sanctions being a major reason for this medicority has little support when you look at JB’s history of having a short rotation.

It’s not why we have struggled all these years. People can say recruiting for the zone is why we struggled and it’s just as valid as the sanctions excuse.

But it's just easier to say sanctions. I'm going to use that excuse when I underperform on my job, too.

 

[HOFCeluck]

The expiration date on the BUT TEH SANCTIONZZZZ excuse is coming soon.

 

[IthacaMatt]

still wondering why everyone thought it would be so different this year. Last years team was not v good and it’s basically the same team

Coaching is supposed to make players better from one year to the next.
So is maturing physically, and adjusting to a higher level of competition.
So is the fact that the seniors on opposing teams from the year before have graduated.

I guess you're a "glass half empty" kind of guy, but if you follow college sports, players tend to get better from year to year. Just go look at the career stats of pretty much any player on any team at any stats web site. If you dispute this as a general observation, then you probably don't watch a lot of college sports.

 

[IthacaMatt]

...what?

Yeah, he's been our best 3 point shooter this year, and highest volume.

 

[IthacaMatt]

In 2002-03, we played 18 conference games. We went 14-4.

In 2009-10, we played 18 conference games. We went 15-3.

In 2011-12, we played 18 conference games. We went 17-1.

In 2017-18, we played 18 conference games. We went 9-9.

I'm not sure how we have a "increased number of conference games". Your math is a little off.

Well, those numbers were achieved in two different conferences.

 

[SUFan44]

Well, those numbers were achieved in two different conferences.

...with comparable teams inhabiting each.

2002-03: Pitt #4, Syracuse #13, Notre Dame #22, UConn #23 (4)
2009-10: Syracuse #4, West Virginia #6, Villanova #9, Georgetown #14, Pitt #18 (5)
2011-12: Syracuse #2, Marquette #11, Georgetown #15, Louisville #17 (4)
2017-18: Virginia #1, Duke #9, UNC #10, Clemson #20, Miami #22 (5)

2002-03 was a bit of a down year, but on average these rankings are comparable. 2009-10 was a loaded Big East and even better than last year's ACC. In my opinion, at least.

 

[HOFCeluck]

We played 16 conference games in 2003 BTW.

 

[OrangeDW]

Well, those numbers were achieved in two different conferences.

While true, the 2010 and 2012 Big East was just as strong.

For example in 2010 you had Cuse, Nova, and WVU all finish top 10. Plus Pitt and Georgetown top 20. ND, Louisville, and Marquette were solid.

This year’s ACC right now also has 5 in the top 20, though 3 in the top 5, so maybe slightly better at the top. Think the BE probably had a stronger middle and upper bottom.

 

[SUFan44]

We played 16 conference games in 2003 BTW.

This is where I pulled the records from...

2002-03 Men's Basketball Schedule - Syracuse University Athletics

Apparently the school is not great at official record keeping?

 

[OrangeDW]

This is where I pulled the records from...

2002-03 Men's Basketball Schedule - Syracuse University Athletics

Apparently the school is not great at official record keeping?

Looks like they’re mistakenly including the Big East Tourney games in the conference record?

We went 13-3 in the Big East that year. Then in the conference tourney, we beat Georgetown and lost to UConn.

 

[Cusefan0307]

This is where I pulled the records from...

2002-03 Men's Basketball Schedule - Syracuse University Athletics

Apparently the school is not great at official record keeping?

Cbbreference.com is best for historical stats.

 

[SUFan44]

Looks like they’re mistakenly including the Big East Tourney games in the conference record?

We went 13-3 in the Big East that year. Then in the conference tourney, we beat Georgetown and lost to UConn.

Even better than 14-4

 

[IthacaMatt]

...with comparable teams inhabiting each.

2002-03: Pitt #4, Syracuse #13, Notre Dame #22, UConn #23 (4)
2009-10: Syracuse #4, West Virginia #6, Villanova #9, Georgetown #14, Pitt #18 (5)
2011-12: Syracuse #2, Marquette #11, Georgetown #15, Louisville #17 (4)
2017-18: Virginia #1, Duke #9, UNC #10, Clemson #20, Miami #22 (5)

2002-03 was a bit of a down year, but on average these rankings are comparable. 2009-10 was a loaded Big East and even better than last year's ACC. In my opinion, at least.

OK, good job backing up your point.

 

[Sherman20]

still wondering why everyone thought it would be so different this year. Last years team was not v good and it’s basically the same team

Um, because players usually improve. Especially from freshman to sophomore year. We expected Brissett and Sidibe and Pascal to be better, Tyus and Frank too. (Marek has improved, though until recently he wasn’t shooting and driving as much.) Not an unreasonable expectation for fans to have at all, especially since we added good shooters in Elijah and Buddy. With Frank, there’s actually been significant regression. That said, we still have a chance to finish 11-7 in the ACC, which would be marked improvement over last season’s 8-10 record.

 

[AZOrange]

No it isn't. I keep hearing that and it is not true. It's, at times, turned into the same team and that's part of the problem.

1. Tyus came back. Anytime your best player comes back, that's significant.
2. Hughes was added. Needed another scorer. Got another scorer.
3. Lacked PG depth last year badly. Well, we got Jalen Carey, a guy highly touted who supposedly was going to push Frank for minutes.
4. A shooter in Buddy. He has absolutely out performed most people's expectations.

This is not last year's team. Not to mention, every returning player another year into the program. It should be much better, and at times, it has been.

1. Tyus is the EXACT same player he was. He had higher day 1 abilities and lower ceiling to get too.

2. Carey was a nice add for depth but doesn’t play. How many minutes were ever going to be available for him realistically? Battle and Howard were 40 mpg guys last year and you had Buddy.

3. Hughes and Buddy are nice additions but they aren’t going to improve your team all that much individually. Both can be neutralized.

You are still nearly wholly reliant on battle, Howard, brissett, chewy and Marek. And that team was not good. This team is marginally better.

 

[AZOrange]

we returned all 5 starters, so we assumed improvement from them and we thought Hughes and Buddy would give us a lot of outside shooting help. Buddy generally has, Hughes not really much of the time. it wasn't just us, about a dozen ESPN guys had us in the Final Four in their preseason picks (out of about 40 or so people). we all were fooled by the Sweet 16 run and ignored the NIT-type regular season we had last year

Yup

 

[AZOrange]

Um, because players usually improve. Especially from freshman to sophomore year. We expected Brissett and Sidibe and Pascal to be better, Tyus and Frank too. (Marek has improved, though until recently he wasn’t shooting and driving as much.) Not an unreasonable expectation for fans to have at all, especially since we added good shooters in Elijah and Buddy. With Frank, there’s actually been significant regression. That said, we still have a chance to finish 11-7 in the ACC, which would be marked improvement over last season’s 8-10 record.

Freshman usually improve when they don’t come in as good as battle and brisset did. They were closer to their ceiling as freshman than most.

 

[Sherman20]

we returned all 5 starters, so we assumed improvement from them and we thought Hughes and Buddy would give us a lot of outside shooting help. Buddy generally has, Hughes not really much of the time. it wasn't just us, about a dozen ESPN guys had us in the Final Four in their preseason picks (out of about 40 or so people). we all were fooled by the Sweet 16 run and ignored the NIT-type regular season we had last year

Agree. But how can you say Hughes hasn’t helped?? He’s the second highest and second most reliable scorer on the team and shoots the second best percentage from 3. Until the UNC game, he had been in a bit of a shooting slump, but not unheard of for a shooter. That’s a bizarre observation.

 

[Sherman20]

2016 was better.
Gbinije/Richardson/Lydon with Cooney and Roberson > than this team.

It’s probably close.