Anyone apathetic?

[SoBeCuse]

No, but that was not what the conversation was between Scotty and I. He wants a patterned offense run. I was pointing to the downside of a patterned offense.

Looks to me that we are spending a lot of time on each possession trying to find the "best" shot or at least a "good" shot. That is until the shot clock gets near to running out. Than we try to drive the lane or jack up a three.

Eh, your last paragraph is sugarcoating the woes. They often pass back and forth around the perimeter with no sense of urgency, no purpose, then find themselves in a predicament which leads to your last sentence. Sometimes no screen is coming or nobody is moving to the high post. To me that is not “trying to find...” It’s either players unsure of what to do (which at this point of the season being a zone team is unacceptable), players incapable of doing so, or something else.

We’re lucky Tim Brando, a nice and jolly guy, was doing the pbp and not McDonough who wouldn’t have been so kind as to sugarcoat the slop. Gminski followed suit and was overly praising and such. Even Bilas would not have been able to bite his tongue, IMO.

 

[TinyManInside]

Eh, your last paragraph is sugarcoating the woes. They often pass back and forth around the perimeter with no sense of urgency, no purpose, then find themselves in a predicament which leads to your last sentence. Sometimes no screen is coming or nobody is moving to the high post. To me that is not “trying to find...” It’s either players unsure of what to do (which at this point of the season being a zone team is unacceptable), players incapable of doing so, or something else.

We’re lucky Tim Brando, a nice and jolly guy, was doing the pbp and not McDonough who wouldn’t have been so kind as to sugarcoat the slop. Gminski followed suit and was overly praising and such. Even Bilas would not have been able to bite his tongue, IMO.

If it's broke, don't fix it.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Tuesday night's 9 pm start vs the worst team in the conference will probably be one of the lowest attended games in Cuse league history (Big East and ACC). I'll still drive over 2 hours to go after working all day because that's why I invested in season tickets. The team needs my support and I will provide it.

Was pleasantly surprised at the crowd size last night. The announced was 21,000+ but that was obviously tickets sold. I would guess maybe 17 or 18. Hard to say. Not a great game so the crowd was quiet but still a great turnout for a 9 pm Tuesday night cold night and I thought the students had a nice turnout as well.

 

[HakAttack]

I was given a pair of free tickets to last night's game and my wife and I couldn't be bothered to drag our carcasses to the Hill. Sure, the 9pm start time made a factor with that, as did the weather, but it just goes to show how mediocre SU bball has been this season.

Literally ANY other season, I get a free pair of SU tickets and I'm all over that.

 

[Knicks411]

I missed this thread initially, but I agree with a lot of it. It's the combination of the fact that A) we're a mediocre team, and B) the games are just really rough to watch from an aesthetic POV.

 

[TinyManInside]

I missed this thread initially, but I agree with a lot of it. It's the combination of the fact that A) we're a mediocre team, and B) the games are just really rough to watch from an aesthetic POV.

It's boring basketball. There. I said it.

BORING.

Hard to come to terms with the fact that from a stylistic standpoint, we've gone from one of the most uptempo and exciting teams in the country (for 25+ years) to what we have now.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

It's boring basketball. There. I said it.

BORING.

Hard to come to terms with the fact that from a stylistic standpoint, we've gone from one of the most uptempo and exciting teams in the country (for 25+ years) to what we have now.

Definitely one way to describe it. I've made this comment before that I really think JAB has embraced analytics with a very short roster and feels that by limiting the number of possessions gives him the very best chance of winning. He's always done it with five minutes left in the game and now he is doing it with 40 minutes left.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Definitely one way to describe it. I've made this comment before that I really think JAB has embraced analytics with a very short roster and feels that by limiting the number of possessions gives him the very best chance of winning. He's always done it with five minutes left in the game and now he is doing it with 40 minutes left.

Could be argued, for sure. I think about it a different way. Just because you play slow paced basketball for 40 minutes doesn't mean you are doing it because you are inefficient. You could argue it makes sense to get more possessions when you don't shoot well (like us). More shots, more possible makes even with terrible FG%. The other team will get more opportunities, but we have a good defense this year overall. Depth must be playing a large role in this tempo we choose.

 

[FrancoPizza]

It's boring basketball. There. I said it.

BORING.

Hard to come to terms with the fact that from a stylistic standpoint, we've gone from one of the most uptempo and exciting teams in the country (for 25+ years) to what we have now.

Wish someone would ask or call-in to see if he thinks it's purely personnel driving this change or if he just prefers to take things slow now. Player limitations and roster depth have nothing to do with this IMO. Z was the slowest, most unathletic point guard we ever had and that 1996 team went 6.5 deep but they still ran a pretty good break. For whatever reason JB has embraced this plodding style. Just wish he could offer some honest rationale because the more it goes unsaid the innuendo about driving slow with the blinker on will continue.

 

[Townie72]

Eh, your last paragraph is sugarcoating the woes. They often pass back and forth around the perimeter with no sense of urgency, no purpose, then find themselves in a predicament which leads to your last sentence. Sometimes no screen is coming or nobody is moving to the high post. To me that is not “trying to find...” It’s either players unsure of what to do (which at this point of the season being a zone team is unacceptable), players incapable of doing so, or something else.

We’re lucky Tim Brando, a nice and jolly guy, was doing the pbp and not McDonough who wouldn’t have been so kind as to sugarcoat the slop. Gminski followed suit and was overly praising and such. Even Bilas would not have been able to bite his tongue, IMO.

You wrote, "They often pass back and forth around the perimeter with no sense of urgency, no purpose, ..."

You might want to modify your statement to read " At least to me, They appear to pass back and forth around the perimeter with no sense of urgency, no purpose, ..."

The purpose is pretty obvious, I think. As to a state of "urgency", why would that be appropriate and how can you tell, anyway?

Anyone who has watched this year's team knows that there aren't a lot of options here that those doing the passing have any faith in.

 

[Townie72]

It's boring basketball. There. I said it.

BORING.

Hard to come to terms with the fact that from a stylistic standpoint, we've gone from one of the most uptempo and exciting teams in the country (for 25+ years) to what we have now.

Watching this team try to win with defense, to score points with a limited number of options and out-tough the opponents is hardly boring to me.

Every trip down the floor to the offensive zone is an adventure.

The NBA, with unstoppable offenses, is what I find boring.

Different strokes, I guess. I don't watch movies with car chases in them. I find them boring.

 

[Bayside44]

A lot of posters are referencing a different era in the game. The ball goes up and 4 guys are back on defense. PGs aren't pass first Kenny Anderson types anymore. Any move to the basket is negated by some coached kid being told to be the receiving end of a battering ram. Plus add the players are far stronger in general, just a different (and not as much fun) game.

 

[Dave85]

I hate to admit this but I just don't care about this season.
To borrow the tree falling in the woods analogy, I just feel like if you have a CBB program and don't make the NCAAT, does it even exist?

My love for Orange basketball is of the unconditional type. Sometimes our marriage goes through some rough patches. But always forever Orange!

 

[kirbivore]

will always watch, but yesterday was a tough one. thank God they won. Anybody else that was not a fan of either team given the choice of watching this or going blind would've chosen

 

[FrancoPizza]

They often pass back and forth around the perimeter with no sense of urgency, no purpose

They really need someone to teach them how to run a zone offense. Howie is the only player that seems to understand the concept of moving without the ball after you make a pass. The post entry pass would become a lot easier if Marek/Moyer were drilled to flash in and out of that spot. When everyone just stands still trying to receive a pass, it's so much easier for the guards up top to defend.

I was actually encouraged by Marek's ability to make things happen when the got the ball in there. He didn't always make the right play but some confidence would help to fix some of that. He can develop into a 50% shooter there if he's ever allowed to become part of the offense.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

When you said cowpath, I immediately thought of Drumlins.

I thought of Lyndon. I always see people out there, no matter the weather.

 

[Townie72]

Seems pretty obvious that the key to fewer possessions and low scoring game is based upon SU on the offensive zone going deep into the clock as we try to get a good shot and teams on the other end struggling against the SU zone which is pretty good this year.

Average longer possessions divided into 40 minutes means fewer possessions for both teams.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

They really need someone to teach them how to run a zone offense. Howie is the only player that seems to understand the concept of moving without the ball after you make a pass. The post entry pass would become a lot easier if Marek/Moyer were drilled to flash in and out of that spot. When everyone just stands still trying to receive a pass, it's so much easier for the guards up top to defend.

I was actually encouraged by Marek's ability to make things happen when the got the ball in there. He didn't always make the right play but some confidence would help to fix some of that. He can develop into a 50% shooter there if he's ever allowed to become part of the offense.

I think our team has a much better chance of winning games when teams play zone vs us. Having Marek in that spot makes all four other players involved in the offense. Much better than how we handle man to man.

 

[JeremyCuse]

I think our team has a much better chance of winning games when teams play zone vs us. Having Marek in that spot makes all four other players involved in the offense. Much better than how we handle man to man.

Marek does a nice job at the FT line in the zone, made some nice passes and was looking all over the court to see who was open. He needs to spend a few hours a day taking jump shots from that location because if he can start to make that he will be deadly there. Currently he really isn't a scoring threat from that spot even when he's wide open. He tried to score once last night in the second half after getting the ball in the zone and on a drive he simply dropped the ball when he elevated to go up on his drive.

 

[Jasoncuse]

It's boring basketball. There. I said it.

BORING.

Hard to come to terms with the fact that from a stylistic standpoint, we've gone from one of the most uptempo and exciting teams in the country (for 25+ years) to what we have now.

It's not just boring, it's also bad most of the time. Turnovers, bricks, misses layups/dunks, etc and that's when we actually attempt to do something instead of draining the clock and passing the ball around 25 feet from the basket...

 

[Jasoncuse]

Marek does a nice job at the FT line in the zone, made some nice passes and was looking all over the court to see who was open. He needs to spend a few hours a day taking jump shots from that location because if he can start to make that he will be deadly there. Currently he really isn't a scoring threat from that spot even when he's wide open. He tried to score once last night in the second half after getting the ball in the zone and on a drive he simply dropped the ball when he elevated to go up on his drive.

It also doesn't help that Chukwu is his only interior option. He can make great pass after great pass, but PC catching the ball cleanly, not travelling and then converting is a dicey proposition. I think we'd be much better against a zone if BS got more run, or even if MM was in for PC. Can't keep trying to get the ball to a kid that struggles so much with it in his hands. MD knows exactly what he is doing against the zone, but his skills and the skills around him don't allow for much success it appears.

 

[Alsacs]

It also doesn't help that Chukwu is his only interior option. He can make great pass after great pass, but PC catching the ball cleanly, not travelling and then converting is a dicey proposition. I think we'd be much better against a zone if BS got more run, or even if MM was in for PC. Can't keep trying to get the ball to a kid that struggles so much with it in his hands. MD knows exactly what he is doing against the zone, but his skills and the skills around him don't allow for much success it appears.

Our guards don’t pass well to the post.
Chukwu will post and they won’t throw him the ball and then he stops doing it.
0307 made a good point a while back our guards aren’t coached well to pass the ball into the post. Any token resistance and they give up.

Spend a couple hours just having the guards practice in the halfcourt passing and having guys catch it.
Practice actually does lead to improvement and that is why I say we don’t practice half court offense it Just shows how we play.

 

[Knicks411]

A lot of posters are referencing a different era in the game. The ball goes up and 4 guys are back on defense. PGs aren't pass first Kenny Anderson types anymore. Any move to the basket is negated by some coached kid being told to be the receiving end of a battering ram. Plus add the players are far stronger in general, just a different (and not as much fun) game.

I get that every era is differnet, but there are 351 teams in division 1. We're 342nd in tempo. Even as recently as last year, we were middle of the pack in offensive possession time; this year, we're 324th. (For the first time in forever, probably, we're slower on offense than defense).


Put another way, in the 2008-10 era we averaged around 70 possessions per game. the NCAA average was right around 65. Now, the NCAA average is about 69 (nice), and we're down to 64. We've dropped by 7% at the same time the national average has increased by 6%.

 

[Alsacs]

I get that every era is differnet, but there are 351 teams in division 1. We're 342nd in tempo. Even as recently as last year, we were middle of the pack in offensive possession time; this year, we're 324th. (For the first time in forever, probably, we're slower on offense than defense).


Put another way, in the 2008-10 era we averaged around 70 possessions per game. the NCAA average was right around 65. Now, the NCAA average is about 69 (nice), and we're down to 64. We've dropped by 7% at the same time the national average has increased by 6%.

PG play.
We can’t run offense if we don’t have a PG.

Quade Green is why our PG is bad this year but we should be recruiting a lot of PGs and not caring primarily about length and zone defense first in PG.
Frank is taller than most guards but we are asking him to be a PG when he is more of a combo guard.

 

[Bayside44]

I get that every era is differnet, but there are 351 teams in division 1. We're 342nd in tempo. Even as recently as last year, we were middle of the pack in offensive possession time; this year, we're 324th. (For the first time in forever, probably, we're slower on offense than defense).


Put another way, in the 2008-10 era we averaged around 70 possessions per game. the NCAA average was right around 65. Now, the NCAA average is about 69 (nice), and we're down to 64. We've dropped by 7% at the same time the national average has increased by 6%.

Curious as to how that matches up to our conference opponents then and now. Flynn, Devo were sure more fun on offense.