Anyone hear this new stadium rumor

[OttoMets]

There's no "Mass" to transit.

If there was a large area with dense population that need to be moved from urban neighborhoods to other places in the city, might make sense. If you had a large number of people converging on a central business district on a daily basis, it might make sense.

Neither of those exist in this community at this moment, and there's no prospect that it will be one in the near future.

Because a small segment of the population finds driving 30 minutes to work unpleasant, not so much.

A great number of people converge on the Hill/downtown every day.

We'll need to agree to disagree on this one. I don't intend to sidetrack the thread.

 

[Millhouse]

if we need to build a choochoo train to get people from the hill to the new stadium, maybe we should keep the old stadium

 

[JeremyCuse]

Backtracking on a new stadium (or arena), yes. Miner has no say on improvements to the existing Dome, however, so there is still that. And the new Chancellor acknowledges that renovation of the existing Dome is indeed being discussed.

I was referring to the new stadium idea not a revamp of the dome. In the end I think its likely we get money for upgrades to the dome versus a new stadium downtown. To many players invovled and way to much NYS bs and red tape.

 

[Bayside44]

Downtown and Hill people. And those of us who live too far from work to walk and find car commuting unpleasant.

Excellent imitation of what critics said in every city planning to build mass transit, though. Somehow there was a need for it; people use it.

Cities might be building them - it's great political pork, but are they being put to good use? I've heard the Charlotte one is a bit of a bust. Remember Singles? - People love their cars.

 

[Millhouse]

Cities might be building them - it's great political pork, but are they being put to good use? I've heard the Charlotte one is a bit of a bust. Remember Singles? - People love their cars.

people love being on their own schedule

 

[Crusty]

Nobody in Upstate New York, maybe.

Pretty darn popular elsewhere. New lines are opening this year in D.C., Seattle, Tucson (TUCSON!), and Atlanta (again, ATLANTA!). Norfolk opened one last year. And construction begins or continues on lines in Charlotte, Cincinnati, Dallas, Detroit, Fort Lauderdale, Kansas City, Milwaukee, New Orleans, Oklahoma City, Tempe, San Antonio, and St. Louis this year.

If car-centric places like Norfolk, Tucson, Tempe, and Fort Lauderdale can build rail, of course a small old Northeastern city like Syracuse can do it and do it well.

Naysayers may nay, but rail is popular everywhere it's been built. If Onondaga County and the state are serious about leveraging public investment and building a successful region, past experience shows that rail would be a good project.

You are preaching to the choir. I use trains whenever I can to avoid the airlines or traffic. I think many of these big city systems are heavy rail for commuter traffic which has a chance of building ridership. Most of these systems are built with federal money I believe, not state.

NC has a train (heavy) that is operated by the state that runs from Charlotte to Raleigh and has decent traffic.

As you know, light rail is a different animal that "rail". It is really today's version of a trolley system. Not all of the rail you mention are light rail so far as I can tell. They present different challenges to ridership. Ontrack, I think it was called, in Syracuse needed 500 riders a day to break even and they got 75.

Governments may need to step up and subsidize these to build ridership, which is always a dangerous idea.
Wonder what the TEA Party thinks about that?

 

[GoSU96]

the rail stuff is a big divide between right and left. lots of things are just philosophical disagreements where both sides know the other sides argument and reject it. but rail something that baffles each side. right has no idea why the left loves it so much and the left has no idea why the right doesn't.

Urban subways and rail systems make a ton of sense in Boston, NYC, DC ... Those places couldn't function without it.

Syracuse, NY is not one of those places. It's also not any of the other places mentioned either. Distances, density, demand, all add up to no need for a commuter rail system in this community.

 

[GoSU96]

A great number of people converge on the Hill/downtown every day.

We'll need to agree to disagree on this one. I don't intend to sidetrack the thread.

Great number? Compared to what, Oswego?

 

[FAL]

if we need to build a choochoo train to get people from the hill to the new stadium, maybe we should keep the old stadium

Ugh! That "choo-chooo train" image brings back memories of the nightmare years. "Nuff said!

 

[OttoMets]

Cities might be building them - it's great political pork, but are they being put to good use? I've heard the Charlotte one is a bit of a bust. Remember Singles? - People love their cars.

I don't have any first-hand Charlotte experience, but the initial numbers suggested that the line was being used - first-year ridership exceeded projections by a third. That encouraged the city to help fund and build an extension of the line to connect UNC-Charlotte to downtown.

A lot of people do love their cars. And a lot don't. There's a bit of a cultural and generational divide on this subject; different ideas about what constitutes quality of life.

 

[Bayside44]

I don't have any first-hand Charlotte experience, but the initial numbers suggested that the line was being used - first-year ridership exceeded projections by a third. That encouraged the city to help fund and build an extension of the line to connect UNC-Charlotte to downtown.

A lot of people do love their cars. And a lot don't. There's a bit of a cultural and generational divide on this subject; different ideas about what constitutes quality of life.

Very true, bikeshare is an obvious example of that.

Charlotte is by folks I know that live there that call it a boondoggle, not enough density, etc.

 

[OttoMets]

You are preaching to the choir. I use trains whenever I can to avoid the airlines or traffic. I think many of these big city systems are heavy rail for commuter traffic which has a chance of building ridership. Most of these systems are built with federal money I believe, not state.

NC has a train (heavy) that is operated by the state that runs from Charlotte to Raleigh and has decent traffic.

As you know, light rail is a different animal that "rail". It is really today's version of a trolley system. Not all of the rail you mention are light rail so far as I can tell. They present different challenges to ridership. Ontrack, I think it was called, in Syracuse needed 500 riders a day to break even and they got 75.

Governments may need to step up and subsidize these to build ridership, which is always a dangerous idea.
Wonder what the TEA Party thinks about that?

In some of these towns, light rail works a lot like heavy rail does. In others -- D.C. and a few other new ones -- trains run in mixed traffic without dedicated right-of-way. Less useful, of course.

Like all modes of transportation, rail requires government subsidies. OnTrack, from what I understand, was a disaster on a number of levels. One was that it didn't enjoy much public financial support.

 

[All4SU]

Beginning to look like they might have to name this thing the "Stephanie Miner Dome" to make it actually happen.

If NYS is going to cough up the money, call it The New York State Dome...where New York's College team plays.

 

[OttoMets]

Urban subways and rail systems make a ton of sense in Boston, NYC, DC ... Those places couldn't function without it.

Syracuse, NY is not one of those places. It's also not any of the other places mentioned either. Distances, density, demand, all add up to no need for a commuter rail system in this community.

You're the person who claimed that current traffic around Kennedy Square is congested; you've been loudly beating the drum about the difficulty of accessing the Dome and a possible stadium site.

Funny.

I wonder what could alleviate that terrible crunch.

 

[MaxwellCuse]

I was referring to the new stadium idea not a revamp of the dome. In the end I think its likely we get money for upgrades to the dome versus a new stadium downtown. To many players invovled and way to much NYS bs and red tape.

Jeremy, I know you were talking about the new stadium. I was agreeing with you.

I also agree that I think it is likely that the best we can hope for in the short term is a Dome renovation. Perhaps in another decade or two the city, county, State, SU and the private sector will get together to finally replace the War Memorial with a mega-arena for SU basketball, minor league hockey, indoor lacrosse, concerts and whatever.

 

[All4SU]

This is a low density region with excess highway capacity. The "Rush Hour" is 20% of what it was 25 yrs ago. There's maybe 1/2 hr of minor congestion. There's no need for it. Who is going to use it? From where to where?

You know when there is a traffic problem in this town, one to two hours before and after a big football or basketball game, the State Fair, or when there is an accident or construction on 81 or 690. Otherwise it's not an issue. Daily normal traffic is a breeze.

But in a perfect world, a smart, intuitive world, you would build your infrastructure based on the planned growth and success of a region, and not on current patterns. I remember visiting Toronto decades ago, and we were looking at a bridge that spanned a gorge-like area. The bridge was very old, but looked in great shape. The "local" we were visiting pointed out that on the underneath side of the bridge, the train tracks ran beneath the road. There was no train running there then. He said the architect anticipated that someday they would want to run the train under that bridge. So that's the way it was designed and built. Not earth-shattering smart. But forward-looking. We need more of that these days.

 

[KellySyracuse]

No one is going to be able to touch the War Memorial, it's designated a historic site. The last time that conversation came up was when Driscoll was mayor, they wanted to tear down and rebuild. There was a contingent of folks - veterans that hotly protested it claiming historic and sentimental value. That is why Syracuse does not have a decent sized facility for concerts, shows, etc...

It was decided to do upgrades as needed instead, new roof and scoreboard, not sure if the other stuff was completed.

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2008/08/county_scrambles_to_fund_repai.html

 

[MaxwellCuse]

The War Memorial will be converted into a war memorial/museum/whatever. It is already antiquated and its usefulness as an arena declines by the hour. Just because it is a designated historic site doesn't mean the community must be stuck for eternity with an inadequate facility for its sports teams, concerts, etc. Sentiment might save the structure but will not perpetuate the current use of that structure.

It will take time. But Central NY will eventually get it right.

 

[KellySyracuse]

The War Memorial will be converted into a war memorial/museum/whatever. It is already antiquated and its usefulness as an arena declines by the hour. Just because it is a designated historic site doesn't mean the community must be stuck for eternity with an inadequate facility for its sports teams, concerts, etc. Sentiment might save the structure but will not perpetuate the current use of that structure.

It will take time. But Central NY will eventually get it right.

I agree with you, was just pointing out that when it comes to cost the county is kind of handcuffed. They own the War Memorial and have to pay for its upkeep. There really isn't much that can be done with the War Memorial but does the county want the cost of an additional stadium on top of it and the ballpark?

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see the place retired and have a brand new functioning facility somewhere else in the city. It sucks that I have to travel to Saratoga or CMAC to see a decent concert.

 

[GoSU96]

You're the person who claimed that current traffic around Kennedy Square is congested; you've been loudly beating the drum about the difficulty of accessing the Dome and a possible stadium site.

Funny.

I wonder what could alleviate that terrible crunch.

I said it's a pain, for the most part because of the lights it's stop and go and the road condition is crap, not because of the traffic.

But if you try to dump a bunch of people there during a game it will be mess, it's not set up to handle all those people arriving at the same time at that spot.

It's not at all similar to daily commuting traffic. Now if everyone one coming into town was using Salina St from the north and south and Erie from the east and west, then you might have a point.

 

[ssmorol]

Wait, Boeheim says we need to be open minded about a new stadium? The same guy that loves the dome? WE ARE TOTALLY GETTING A NEW STADIUM!
http://www.syracuse.com/axeman/index.ssf/2014/01/jim_boeheim_on_arena_discussio.html#incart_m-rpt-2

 

[javadoc]

The War Memorial will be converted into a war memorial/museum/whatever. It is already antiquated and its usefulness as an arena declines by the hour. Just because it is a designated historic site doesn't mean the community must be stuck for eternity with an inadequate facility for its sports teams, concerts, etc. Sentiment might save the structure but will not perpetuate the current use of that structure.

It will take time. But Central NY will eventually get it right.

Haven't been there for a long long time, but have many fond memories of concerts at the old War Memorial. And standing outside in line overnight to get tickets in some cases, with some pretty sketchy folks.

 

[xc84]

I said it's a pain, for the most part because of the lights it's stop and go and the road condition is crap, not because of the traffic.

But if you try to dump a bunch of people there during a game it will be mess, it's not set up to handle all those people arriving at the same time at that spot.

It's not at all similar to daily commuting traffic. Now if everyone one coming into town was using Salina St from the north and south and Erie from the east and west, then you might have a point.

I know it's Syracuse and "traffic" in Syracuse is not bad to begin with but after games, Erie Boulevard going toward Teal (my direction) is a little messy. After I get to Erie, it's easily a wait of about 15 minutes now to get on 690 which I can live with. Without radical changes to Erie Blvd. there would be gridlock for hours.

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

Re: the train

Frank Kobliski, of the Regional Transportation Authority supported the concept behind OnTrack. "It was wildly popular both for Syracuse University football and basketball home games and concerts and NCAA basketball events." When asked if OnTrack was a good idea, Kobliski replied, "It was if you forget a minute about the money."

Kobliski says OnTrack had to rely heavily on community support and taxpayer subsidies because the $1.50 fare could never cover its operating costs. Over the years the state shelled out about $8 million to keep OnTrack running, but in the end it failed.
http://www.cnycentral.com/news/story.aspx?id=968688#.UtWE6cXA_0s

 

[Toga]

As far as transportation - I haven't been to a lot college football stadiums. But at North Carolina they have bus pickup sites all around town. Drops off a block and a half from stadium. Low cost and very convenient.