Are we the worst P-5 football program?

[Willy75]

Want no part of Tennessee their program isn’t far off.
It’s bad QB play.
I have done well betting Tennessee games. Against them for the record.

They have real talent. Marrone would be a good HC for Tennessee. They recruit talent but don’t have good game plans.

Nebraska can’t recruit TX anymore that well.
In the Big XII they had games in TX so they could recruit CA, FL and TX for athletes but going to the Big Ten messed that up.

We should find a way to play Rutgers 4 times a decade. It’s a game we can win any year and they will feel the same way.

Schedule another P5 private school; Northwestern, TCU or Baylor.

 

[AgentOrange]

We won 10 games two years ago

And we beat the no. 1 team in the country, the eventual national champions, a year prior. There’s no way that we’re bottom five.

 

[Roger N]

Not talking about this year in isolation necessarily, but rather, more broadly.

Serious question...i think the answer may very well be yes. I think there are other programs in the discussion. But I am having a hard time definitively saying we are not.

Suddenly, a lot of the other conference doormats all still look better.

Kansas may be the only program I can make the confident case for.

It is good to be number #1 in something.

 

[dan7800]

We haven't lost a bowl game in 16 years, this year will make it 17.

Not even Bama/Clemson can claim that.

 

[Acesn8s]

the fact that this even has to be considered is disgraceful. And for those who make excuses for it is even more ridiculous. Nobody wants Syracuse football to be horrible and there is no reason for it. Nobody ever would consider lumping Boston College or Pitt in this conversation our tradition rivals. Rutgers would blow us off the field if we played them this week. It’s a joke. And in year 5 it’s the entire coaching staff’s fault.

 

[orangeinjersey]

i think if you look at the body of work without the orange colored glasses, since McNabb left, we have pretty much stunk. And we probably are in the bottom 10 since the turn of the century

 

[orangecuse]

Would have been 20 had you decided not to post this #JustSayin

Yeah right? I always find these posts, let's just say interesting. First, it's a fan message board, but more than that, there's a thing in this life called free will...and we all have it.

 

[syrBossHogg]

Part of our problem has been before we joined the ACC we overscheduled in the nonconference.

It makes sense to schedule strong nonconference games.
Hell in 2009 Marrone’s first year we played 3 Big Ten games in the nonconference.
Minnesota/Penn State/Northwestern all in one year.

We were coming off GRob and were rebuilding. We didn’t need to do that.

That chit hurt the program.

We are finally spending the money to be more competitive in football.
Dino has lost a lot of good will.
The school has done a lot to accommodate him and the product on the field this year is poor because of coaching more than anything.
The players are playing hard they aren’t getting help.

The coaching staff needs to do a better job.

And that USC series. Marrone might have locked up a bowl spot without them on the schedule in 2011 even with a banged up team and they nearly cost us another bowl slot the following year.

 

[GoSU96]

And that USC series. Marrone might have locked up a bowl spot without them on the schedule in 2011 even with a banged up team and they nearly cost us another bowl slot the following year.

Worse yet, scheduling a road game at Missouri at the last minute. The OCC that year was NWestern, at Minny, neutral USC, at Missouri, and Stony Brook. I'd imagine Marrone's reaction was ' this, Gross is trying to get me fired.

Sorta like the Sammy Watkins pick was in Buffalo.

 

[nzm136]

As the ACC revenue continues to increase I could see Vanderbilt joining the ACC with Notre Dame. Vanderbilt’s academic profile is similar to other ACC schools. From a football standpoint Vanderbilt would be much more competitive in the ACC as well.

Vandy won’t join the ACC. They don’t care about winning, the SEC gives gobs of cash and needs them (all conferences need at least one private school to keep secrets), and they are *the* singular destination for elite-level smart kids who want to see SEC athletics up close.

 

[JimBoston]

Syracuse is not one of the worst P5 programs, but Syracuse is one of the worst P5 teams this year. I think Syracuse is a development program, but I'm not seeing that happen under Babers. I did see a development program happening under Marrone.

In college football today, I do think you need an offensive minded coach to lead the team, so I think Babers has the right coaching background, but he did not have experience developing a program as the head coach, so the jury is still out. And, he and his staff have limited recruiting ties in Syracuse's key recruiting areas, NY, NJ, New England, PA, Maryland, so Syracuse doesn't get any of the top recruits from those areas.

I would love to see Joe Morehead get a shot at Syracuse. From Pittsburgh and he played football at Fordham. He has OC at Akron, UConn, Penn St., and now Oregon, and head coach at Fordham and Miss St. (where he was a bad fit.) He has recruiting ties to key recruiting grounds, is offensive minded, turned around Fordham, and he is only 47.

 

[kcsu]

Syracuse is not one of the worst P5 programs, but Syracuse is one of the worst P5 teams this year. I think Syracuse is a development program, but I'm not seeing that happen under Babers. I did see a development program happening under Marrone.

In college football today, I do think you need an offensive minded coach to lead the team, so I think Babers has the right coaching background, but he did not have experience developing a program as the head coach, so the jury is still out. And, he and his staff have limited recruiting ties in Syracuse's key recruiting areas, NY, NJ, New England, PA, Maryland, so Syracuse doesn't get any of the top recruits from those areas.

I would love to see Joe Morehead get a shot at Syracuse. From Pittsburgh and he played football at Fordham. He has OC at Akron, UConn, Penn St., and now Oregon, and head coach at Fordham and Miss St. (where he was a bad fit.) He has recruiting ties to key recruiting grounds, is offensive minded, turned around Fordham, and he is only 47.

I have wanted this guy for years. Joe would in my opinion not only bring us back to respectability within 2 years but stay at Cuse for a very long time. Hes number 1 on my list hands down.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I think you should have led with this instead of your original subject title.

The part that has been bothering me is the thought that we'll so rarely have a good offensive line. I've admitted as much in posts, because it certainly shows over the years.

But why? I mean, there are so many G5 teams we play who have functional lines. Not great, but functional. Ours has just been abysmal. Tackles getting beat easily. Guards letting people run by them because they were looking at one guy to block and a DE stunting wasn't on their radar. A center who can't snap and block at the same time. Run blocking has somewhat improved but it's not at all consistent. Pass blocking has some good moments, but more often not.

Maybe kcsu is right and it's all Cavanaugh. Maybe it's just an injury/COVID anomaly, but what about last year? It needs to change quickly because the offense is paralyzed without it. Having Bleich next year will help, but he's only 1 of 5. Healthy Dakota will help too. But need more, and some depth.

Our OL hasn't been good any year under Babers. Our YPC in conference play ranked 14th, 9th, and 8th. That was with a running QB helping those numbers out. Sacks allowed were 13th, 8th, and 9th. Again with a QB who was hard to sack. 2016 was pretty close to what he have seen the last two years. Even if the OL plays liek it did in 2017 or 2018, will it be enough without a dual threat QB to make a significant difference? If that answer is no then we will be going from an epically bad O to a Duke this year level O (they only have a win in conference because they played us). While that is functional, it won't get you to a Bowl game.

 

[djorange1989]

If Cisco, Trill and TD don’t get injured/opt out we’re sittin at 4 or 5 wins right now.

unless they were able to play offensive line and WR, I doubt it.

 

[PatMark]

This shows me that with the right leadership this program can be at a minimum competitive, and that bad decisions and management by the AD dept can crater the performance of the program.

P, Marrone, Babers (putting aside this years disaster) 80-79, the other guys 24-60.

When you have a coach in place that has proven he can do it, support that coach, don't cut and run and think change for change sake is going to lead to better results.

Stablity and resources, dispassionate assessment, not chasing results, is the way to go.

This was a great post. I went and did the same thing for SU, BC, PSU, Pitt, RU and PSU and our .428 winning percentage since 2000 is the lowest of that group. What surprised me the most was Pitt. They are 143-110 since 2000. We should start trying to be more like Pitt before we start trying to be like anyone else.

 

[GoSU96]

This was a great post. I went and did the same thing for SU, BC, PSU, Pitt, RU and PSU and our .428 winning percentage since 2000 is the lowest of that group. What surprised me the most was Pitt. They are 143-110 since 2000. We should start trying to be more like Pitt before we start trying to be like anyone else.

7-7 vs BC in that time, 6-7 vs Rutgers (oye, last two losses truly WFT out played them everywhere but the score board, P and Marone 6-3, Gerg 0-4), here's the nut kicker 5-15 vs Pitt, ouch, there isn't enough ice in the world. Mostly close games, but still not good.

Not even going to bother with PSU.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Nah.

 

[McNabb2Brominski]

unless they were able to play offensive line and WR, I doubt it.

Duke and Liberty don’t set rushing records against us if Cisco plays. I’d like to think Tommy would’ve been able to generate more offense than the train wreck we witnessed in the Wake and BC games.

 

[SWC75]

I am talking big picture, not only this year.

Win percentage computation form

Form for computing winning percentage of all I-A teams over any span of years.

football.stassen.com

Since 2002: I-A Winning Percentage 2002-2019

We are #100 of 127 schools listed. Iowa State, Colorado, Vanderbilt, Duke, Indiana, Illinois and Kansas are worse.

Since 2013: I-A Winning Percentage 2013-2019

We are #91. Vanderbilt, Virginia, Colorado, Maryland, Iowa State, Arkansas, Illinois, Rutgers, Oregon State, Purdue and Kansas are worse.

Since 1906, when the forward pass was legalized and the NCAA created, (really the beginning of college football as we know it): I-A Winning Percentage 1906-2019

We are #38.

 

[Crusty]

As the ACC revenue continues to increase I could see Vanderbilt joining the ACC with Notre Dame. Vanderbilt’s academic profile is similar to other ACC schools. From a football standpoint Vanderbilt would be much more competitive in the ACC as well.

Interesting thought but probably will never happen.

 

[storange]

What’s the point of this thread, we know we’re bad . What does it do.

 

[gmoney44]

If Cisco, Trill and TD don’t get injured/opt out we’re sittin at 4 or 5 wins right now.

No we aren’t.

 

[Killdozer]

Pick a lane, you said in your lead not this year, and then talk about how other teams now look better.

The active roster, emphasis on active, is ridiculous, but the full roster next year is going to be much, much better than what took the field Friday.

SU has been competitive with the ACC. Obviously there is 2018 and coming in second, but SU has at least one win against every team other than UVA and Miami, which we have played once on the road.

So you view "competitive in the ACC" as keeping game close but still a lost. I feel being competitive as a .500 record or better in the ACC which has happened once.

 

[OrangeDW]

My take, and its an unpopular opinion absolutely positively ripe for flaming by the majority here, is that Syracuse fans, as a whole, get more angry at those who call out our ineptitude than we do at those who are responsible for it. The defeatism amongst this fan base is incredible.

We make excuses more than any other fan base in college football. "can't recruit in Syracuse...northern city no one wants to travel to". Boise State says hi. (yeah I know I am inviting a dozen excuse makers ready to explain ad nauseum why Idaho is so much more attractive then CNY...whatever, comes with the territory)...And then we call out anyone who doesn't take on that approach. Yes. My thread here is the problem. Not the fact that we still cant recruit for crap and didnt even get an uptick at all after Dino's amazing sportcenter ready speeches and a 10 win season. Not the fact that our playcalling is a joke. My thread. The fact that I can't just whistle away a 30 point embarrassment to the same COVID that has hit every other program. That is the real thing we need to be concerned with here.


OK, let the excuse making resume.

Arguably our 5 best players are out for the season: Trill, Cisco, DeVito, Adams, and Jordan.

Is that an “excuse” to point that out?

 

[JeffCuse]

Arguably our 5 best players are out for the season: Trill, Cisco, DeVito, Adams, and Jordan.

Is that an “excuse” to point that out?

No, but I would consider it a non sequitur of sorts. We've lost 4 of 5 seasons. And when we had more of those guys playing early were still struggling