Are we the worst P-5 football program?

[OrangeDW]

No, but I would consider it a non sequitur of sorts. We've lost 4 of 5 seasons. And when we had more of those guys playing early were still struggling

Struggling but we weren’t pathetic. Hung in the game with UNC for 3 quarters on the road. Beat GT. We wouldn’t be good, especially against this schedule but I think we’d have more than 1 win, and be more competitive.

We had some good moments in 16 and 17. Syracuse fans want to give Rutgers credit for being “on the rise”, and dismiss those as simply “losing seasons”. This place is something else right now.

 

[JeffCuse]

Struggling but we weren’t pathetic. Hung in the game with UNC for 3 quarters on the road. Beat GT. We wouldn’t be good, especially against this schedule but I think we’d have more than 1 win, and be more competitive.

We had some good moments in 16 and 17. Syracuse fans want to give Rutgers credit for being “on the rise”, and dismiss those as simply “losing seasons”. This place is something else right now.

I'm not willing to say Rutgers is on the rise. Yet. They are having a seemingly better year relative to recent history, but they have a long way to go before I can say "they are for real".

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I'm not willing to say Rutgers is on the rise. Yet. They are having a seemingly better year relative to recent history, but they have a long way to go before I can say "they are for real".

They're 1 and 4.

 

[OrangeDW]

They're 1 and 4.

“Losing season.” Without the win over Clemson.

 

[CapitalO]

Kansas is the answer. Vandy is awful too.

I think if Vandy played SU and Kansas on a neutral field 5 games each Vandy would be 8 -2

 

[OrangeDW]

Vandy would beat us handy. Us vs Kansas for last.

He said PROGRAM, not team. Big difference, and it’s not determine by who would beat who right now.

Too many prisoners of the moment on here. How many of you thought we were overtaking Clemson as a PROGRAM 15 months ago? Lmao.

 

[JeffCuse]

They're 1 and 4.

I said they are having a seemingly better season. I felt like the way i phrased that was a very low bar

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I said they are having a seemingly better season. I felt like the way i phrased that was a very low bar

When discussing Rutgers, the bar is never too low.

 

[gmoney44]

He said PROGRAM, not team. Big difference, and it’s not determine by who would beat who right now.

Too many prisoners of the moment on here. How many of you thought we were overtaking Clemson as a PROGRAM 15 months ago? Lmao.

I never thought we were overtaking Clemson in anything and we are definitely in the conversation of the worst P5 program. That itself is sad enough.

 

[JeffCuse]

I never thought we were overtaking Clemson in anything and we are definitely in the conversation of the worst P5 program. That itself is sad enough.

Agreed. There is nothing hyperbolic about the idea that we are at the bottom. Seriously. Look at the teams in P5. the last handful of years, we are absolutely in the bottom...say...5.

I dont want us to be there. But, I say this again, the tendency of the Syracuse fan to deflect, dismiss, or make excuses is uncanny and unlike that of any other sports fan base I am a part of. No Syracuse fan ever thought we would overtake Clemson (unless you count the excitement that we could maybe just maybe challenge them in the Dome, excitement that was destroyed by the team's play and coaching in Maryland).

Yes - this year has posed unique challenges. But unique to the year, not the program. And we managed it uniquely badly. Is it possible that maybe, just maybe, our roster would have been able to manage the injuries and COVID opt outs better if we had actually improved our recruiting more significantly under Dino's watch?

 

[Bayside44]

This was a great post. I went and did the same thing for SU, BC, PSU, Pitt, RU and PSU and our .428 winning percentage since 2000 is the lowest of that group. What surprised me the most was Pitt. They are 143-110 since 2000. We should start trying to be more like Pitt before we start trying to be like anyone else.

Great idea - we can share our practice facility with an NFL team and sit in the middle of a talent-rich region, with kids a super short drive from campus.

 

[JeffCuse]

Great idea - we can share our practice facility with an NFL team and sit in the middle of a talent-rich region, with kids a super short drive from campus.

We really are never going anywhere if we are going to call the University of Pittsburgh's level of success out of reach. I mean, seriously. 143-110 since 2000. That's 7-5 on average. If that's too much to strive for, just fold it up.

 

[Bayside44]

We really are never going anywhere if we are going to call the University of Pittsburgh's level of success out of reach. I mean, seriously. 143-110 since 2000. That's 7-5 on average. If that's too much to strive for, just fold it up.

Not sure why we have to go back 20 years on this stuff. Pitt has certain advantages, in a lot of ways they probably should be better than they are.

We need a generally healthy 85 guy roster and play upperclassmen with some real talent that is younger mixed in. Without that we're in trouble.

 

[Scooch]

Having western PA talent surrounding Pitt definitely makes their recruiting easier. That being said, it's a 4-5 hour car ride from Syracuse to that region. Not our backyard, per se, but not exactly the Carolinas either. It's about the same distance from SU to Pitt as SU is from Long Island, and I'm not sure anyone thinks landing a recruit from there is some kind of miracle.

It sucks that NYS is bereft of FBS talent, and it makes our recruiting more difficult, but I also don't think it makes it impossible. For whatever reasons, Dino hasn't translated his personality into recruiting success. My hunch is that he's made some poor choices re: his staff, and the results have been lousy as a consequence.

 

[Bayside44]

Having western PA talent surrounding Pitt definitely makes their recruiting easier. That being said, it's a 4-5 hour car ride from Syracuse to that region. Not our backyard, per se, but not exactly the Carolinas either. It's about the same distance from SU to Pitt as SU is from Long Island, and I'm not sure anyone thinks landing a recruit from there is some kind of miracle.

It sucks that NYS is bereft of FBS talent, and it makes our recruiting more difficult, but I also don't think it makes it impossible. For whatever reasons, Dino hasn't translated his personality into recruiting success. My hunch is that he's made some poor choices re: his staff, and the results have been lousy as a consequence.

Everyone seems to drive faster than I do...I think the idea with the regional thing is it's far easier to get the program guys, 5 year players if we had more locally like we used to.

 

[TexanMark]

Having western PA talent surrounding Pitt definitely makes their recruiting easier. That being said, it's a 4-5 hour car ride from Syracuse to that region. Not our backyard, per se, but not exactly the Carolinas either. It's about the same distance from SU to Pitt as SU is from Long Island, and I'm not sure anyone thinks landing a recruit from there is some kind of miracle.

It sucks that NYS is bereft of FBS talent, and it makes our recruiting more difficult, but I also don't think it makes it impossible. For whatever reasons, Dino hasn't translated his personality into recruiting success. My hunch is that he's made some poor choices re: his staff, and the results have been lousy as a consequence.

When the factories started closing all over upstate starting about 1970...many of those workers moved out of the area. Their kids were often the the underrated talent but tough players Cuse could get to fill out the roster. Now throw in most of the average sized quick twitch kids in CNY are all playing lacrosse now...and Upstate NY has about 5 P5 players a year group.

Cuse has to out scheme teams to be successful along with having luck.

 

[Eric15]

and they are *the* singular destination for elite-level smart kids who want to see SEC athletics up close.

I was surprised to see how high the University of Florida was in the recent US news rankings. #30

 

[TexanMark]

I was surprised to see how high the University of Florida was in the recent US news rankings. #30

High growth state. UF is only taking Top 10% kids. FSU has also really elevated.

UCF and USF both are huge schools that are comparable to the good SUNYs

 

[Bayside44]

High growth state. UF is only taking Top 10% kids. FSU has also really elevated.

UCF and USF both are huge schools that are comparable to the good SUNYs

State populations boom yet the school size stays about the same. UVa is just about impossible now and VT has gotten quite tough.

 

[Eric15]

State populations boom yet the school size stays about the same. UVa is just about impossible now and VT has gotten quite tough.

Similar situation with Maryland. Used to be considered a mediocre school and now it’s extremely competitive.

 

[baggerbob]

Similar situation with Maryland. Used to be considered a mediocre school and now it’s extremely competitive.

In 5 years Outside of 2 transfer wide receivers, AET, Jackson, and 3 Shafer recruits, Ishmael, Phillips, and Custis Dino has not had a true No 1 receiver. That is pathetic for a so called offensive guru.

 

[Doc5120]

Arguably our 5 best players are out for the season: Trill, Cisco, DeVito, Adams, and Jordan.

Is that an “excuse” to point that out?

I agree our top 2 (Cisco and Trill), but Iffy and Garrett Williams are better than those other 3 guys. And as crazy as it sounds, Adams being out may have been a blessing in disguise as it opened up room for Sean Tucker. I'd place him ahead of all but Cisco and Trill.

I'm high on JJ, but I think he has been misused so far. Get him into the slot and he can be a game changer for us. Perhaps with Tucker's emergence, JJ will slide to slot next year and we'll have our top 2 playmakers on the field and healthy.

 

[City of Cuse]

In 5 years Outside of 2 transfer wide receivers, AET, Jackson, and 3 Shafer recruits, Ishmael, Phillips, and Custis Dino has not had a true No 1 receiver. That is pathetic for a so called offensive guru.

I get your point, but you do have to give him credit for seeing a need and getting two really solid players to come in and produce.

 

[TexanMark]

Similar situation with Maryland. Used to be considered a mediocre school and now it’s extremely competitive.

Straight up costs...when I went to a SUNY in late 70s/early 80s it was approximately 45-50% of the cost to attend SU. (Total on campus room and board). Now it is 30%. I think that is driving more kids to public schools. The most prestigious privates can survive off reputation and liberal aid but we are seeing smaller less prestigious private schools shut down with greater frequency.

 

[OrangeDW]

I agree our top 2 (Cisco and Trill), but Iffy and Garrett Williams are better than those other 3 guys. And as crazy as it sounds, Adams being out may have been a blessing in disguise as it opened up room for Sean Tucker. I'd place him ahead of all but Cisco and Trill.

I'm high on JJ, but I think he has been misused so far. Get him into the slot and he can be a game changer for us. Perhaps with Tucker's emergence, JJ will slide to slot next year and we'll have our top 2 playmakers on the field and healthy.

Yeah, I should’ve said “coming into the season”. Arguably.

Tucker is good, but we’d be better with him, Adams, and Jordan. We lack weapons and playmakers, and 2 of them - probably our most proven one coming into the year(Adams) and probably the most explosive one(Jordan) are out. Think our offense would be somewhat respectable with those guys and DeVito.