As fired up as people seem to be getting from Friday

[PhatOrange]

What do you expect him to say? He wanted folks to be excited about the program. You want people to have expectations. You don't step in and squash enthusiasm. When GRob stepped in, it was not a rebuild. By the time Marrone got here, it was.

The media never quoted the rest of the statement. He went on to say that he had to put in a new foundation and start over. It was a complete tear down, too far gone to just be a rebuild.

 

[All4SU]

This is problematic.

If he said that believing it wasn't a rebuild, he wasn't very well prepared to be a head coach.

If he said that believing it was a rebuild, we have to take everything he says about the team with a grain of salt.

I'm a stickler on what Marrone says because truthfully, he says a lot of weird stuff.

I think people hear what they want to hear. And as much as we would love our coaches to be honest and forthright with every word, I believe a part of their role is political in nature -- and requires saying different things in different settings and circumstances in order to manage expectations and excitement on the part of the media, the players, the recruits, and the fans. (and perhaps even their superiors.)

Is it a rebuild? Is it not a rebuild? Do we have a lot of work to do? Is this guy an impact player? Have we recruited the definitive player at QB? Or at RB? Is this kid going to start for four years? Is the opponent good? You will hear Coachspeak at every turn. Can't take everything too literally.

 

[rrlbees]

What do you expect him to say? He wanted folks to be excited about the program. You want people to have expectations. You don't step in and squash enthusiasm. When GRob stepped in, it was not a rebuild. By the time Marrone got here, it was.

Couldn't disagree more. I'm a broken record but from a talent standpoint, Grob had more of a reclamation job than Marrone. From a facility standpoint, Grob had further to go (not that we were there when Marrone came on board). What Marrone had to do was improve the record. That is why he said it wasn't a complete rebuild.

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[All4SU]

Really, who cares if it is better than Grob? Seriously, what does that prove?

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You're either getting better or you're getting worse. We're shooting for the first one.

 

[All4SU]

Couldn't disagree more. I'm a broken record but from a talent standpoint, Grob had more of a reclamation job than Marrone. From a facility standpoint, Grob had further to go (not that we were there when Marrone came on board). What Marrone had to do was improve the record. That is why he said it wasn't a complete rebuild.

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Like you, I couldn't disagree more. As frustrated as folks were with Coach P down the stretch, his last team won a share of the watered down BE title. And they had won a share of two of the previous 4 titles. The memory of McNabb and Freeney was still in recruits' minds. SU was still a strong brand name. By the time GRob left, that brand had been further diluted.

 

[rrlbees]

The media never quoted the rest of the statement. He went on to say that he had to put in a new foundation and start over. It was a complete tear down, too far gone to just be a rebuild.

Where did he say that and the media didn't fully quote him? What you say above could not have bern fact anyways since we did so well in year 2 which also supports my contention the talent was there.

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[Noexcuse]

Really, who cares if it is better than Grob? Seriously, what does that prove?

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But is he worse than some nebulus coach who is out there just waiting his chance to show us what he can do? I think you either extend him now on the basis of what you've seen and project forward (my view) or cut bait at the end of the year and hire that nebulus guy and have him scramble around to hire a new staff, try and keep the recruiting class together and fill it out as needed, placate the returning players, evaluate what he has returning and try and install a new offensive and defensive strategy, etc.

One thing about Marrone, imo, is that he did not go for a quick fix (other than bring in Greg Paulus), gimmicky style to pad his wins from the get go while trying to install his vision of what offense and defense he wanted to run at some point in the future. He has pretty much maintained the course since he got here. At the very least it does appear that the athleticism and s&c have improved. Lets see how that translates into performance on the field (both the players and coaching) then either extend him at the end of the year or let him ride out the final year of his contract.

 

[GoSU96]

Couldn't disagree more. I'm a broken record but from a talent standpoint, Grob had more of a reclamation job than Marrone. From a facility standpoint, Grob had further to go (not that we were there when Marrone came on board). What Marrone had to do was improve the record. That is why he said it wasn't a complete rebuild.

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You're nuts.

 

[rrlbees]

Like you, I couldn't disagree more. As frustrated as folks were with Coach P down the stretch, his last team won a share of the watered down BE title. And they had won a share of two of the previous 4 titles. The memory of McNabb and Freeney was still in recruits' minds. SU was still a strong brand name. By the time GRob left, that brand had been further diluted.

Talent. Was. There.

And our brand was already shot due to epic loses, a bad big east, a sub 500 record over 3 years, declining attendance, and a loud fanbase calling for the coaches head. No matter how bad Grob was, the program was in the wrapper already.

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[JeremyCuse]

You're nuts.

Overall talent can be debated but Marrone definitely walked into more offensive talent then Grob did and I dont think its even close.

 

[SoBristol]

Having a full roster isn't a benefit only if every player, 1-85, can make positive contributions any given year--it's also about year-over-year continuity. Having a full roster is important because college athletics is attrition-based; players graduate every year. When important players leave, do you have the talent in the pipeline for guys to step into vacated roles, or are you forced to throw players to the wolves before they are ready?

Because the alternative is to play musical chairs every year and stick your thumb into the dam hoping to avoid a leak. Getting back to having full roster means better depth, more opportunities to redshirt incoming frosh, being able to better withstand injuries, more robust practices, etc. all of which supports the long term well being of a program.

There is something to what you say, but I wouldn't take it to an extreme. You win or lose with your top 18 guys on offense, and your top 18 guys on defense, plus maybe 10 guys who contribute on specials.
Your better frosh (except OL and DL) are going to break into the two-deep over the course of the season -- especially if you are a team in rebuilding mode.
If you are aggressive, you find some JUCOs to fill in quickly.
As I look at our current team, the only guys who were "program players" and had impact only as upperclassmen are Stevens, West due to injuries, maybe Robinson at DE and Vaughan.
It isn't so much we have needed more bodies as we needed better recruiting, earlier in Marrone's tenure, at RB, WR and LB. If we had that help last year, we would be coming off a bowl season.

 

[RF2044]

There is something to what you say, but I wouldn't take it to an extreme. You win or lose with your top 18 guys on offense, and your top 18 guys on defense, plus maybe 10 guys who contribute on specials.
Your better frosh (except OL and DL) are going to break into the two-deep over the course of the season -- especially if you are a team in rebuilding mode.
If you are aggressive, you find some JUCOs to fill in quickly.
As I look at our current team, the only guys who were "program players" and had impact only as upperclassmen are Stevens, West due to injuries, maybe Robinson at DE and Vaughan.
It isn't so much we have needed more bodies as we needed better recruiting, earlier in Marrone's tenure, at RB, WR and LB. If we had that help last year, we would be coming off a bowl season.

Special teams says "hello."

 

[Aweart23]

Overall talent can be debated but Marrone definitely walked into more offensive talent then Grob did and I dont think its even close.

How do you figure that?

 

[JeremyCuse]

How do you figure that?

Carter, Bailey, Lemon, Sales, Lobdell (OK maybe not him), Provo, Collier etc. What did Grob have Diamond Ferri, Perry Patterson and Tim Lane. I think its pretty clear.

 

[RF2044]

Carter, Bailey, Lemon, Sales, Lobdell (OK maybe not him), Provo, Collier etc. What did Grob have Diamond Ferri, Perry Patterson and Tim Lane. I think its pretty clear.

I'll grant you Carter, Bailey, and Provo. Collier? How many snaps did he play? Ditto Sales, who I am excited about, but who has yet to make a consistent contribution at any time during his tenure at SU.

GRob also had Curtis Brinkley and Damien Rhodes.

 

[Aweart23]

Carter, Bailey, Lemon, Sales, Lobdell (OK maybe not him), Provo, Collier etc. What did Grob have Diamond Ferri, Perry Patterson and Tim Lane. I think its pretty clear.

You left out Damien Rhodes, Curtis Brinkley, Taj Smith, a young Mike Williams, Tony Fiamatta, Delone Carter, Lobdell (OK not him),

I think its pretty even...

 

[SoBristol]

Special teams says "hello."

Hello back -- guys on the two deep are the leaders on specials, and already counted in my top 36 or 40 players. Then, you have a couple of kickers, a snapper or two, and 6 guys who contribute only on specials. You can work it out.
You don't win or lose games with the 35 players who sit the bench as program players.

 

[All4SU]

Talent. Was. There.

And our brand was already shot due to epic loses, a bad big east, a sub 500 record over 3 years, declining attendance, and a loud fanbase calling for the coaches head. No matter how bad Grob was, the program was in the wrapper already.

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Are you talking about P's final years? Yes, program was in the crapper. Fans were inconsolable. Attendance was plummeting. Performance on the field was erratic -- some very good, some astonishingly bad. Even still, things could get worse. And they did.

 

[SoBristol]

You left out Damien Rhodes, Curtis Brinkley, Taj Smith, a young Mike Williams, Tony Fiamatta, Delone Carter, Lobdell (OK not him),

I think its pretty even...

Some of these (Smith, Williams, Carter, Sales) weren't left for GROB. They were his recruits. If there is an issue about Marrone it is the lack of impact (so far) of his own recruits on the offensive side. Now, in year 4, that should change.

 

[JeremyCuse]

You left out Damien Rhodes, Curtis Brinkley, Taj Smith, a young Mike Williams, Tony Fiamatta, Delone Carter, Lobdell (OK not him),

I think its pretty even...

I meant Damien Rhodes as Ferri was allready gone by the time Grob came in thats a typo on my part.

Grob recruited Deleone Carter, Taj Smith and Lobdell and I am pretty sure Mike Williams as well, so how exactly did he walk into that?

I dont see how its even at all, I think its pretty clear Marrone had WAY more to work with.

 

[RF2044]

Hello back -- guys on the two deep are the leaders on specials, and already counted in my top 36 or 40 players. Then, you have a couple of kickers, a snapper or two, and 6 guys who contribute only on specials. You can work it out.
You don't win or lose games with the 35 players who sit the bench as program players.

And in Marrone's first few years, our two-deep was populated by lots of players who were true frosh, undersized, or not as athletically talented as some of the players we're getting into the program now.

Trust me--we are much better off now than we were two years ago in terms of team speed, athleticism, and size. And that is going to continue to improve as we [hopefully] see better results on the field, which will in turn allow us to recruit even better, and so on.

 

[JrodCuse]

For the above 3 points Doug has to be on the hot seat IMO. If we want to turn our football program around we can not keep waiting on Doug to "turn it around". We need to get someone in here that will turn it around...

He plays in a crappy crappy conference. We have a 5th year senor QB with his 3 year starting in this system. IMO this is a huge year for Doug. He has to get us to a bowl game because moving next year with an unproven QB into the ACC will not be a smooth transition and you need to gain recruiting momentum before the move and you do that with a winning record and a bowl win. If that doesn't happen this year I do not know when it will happen again unless Allen is the real deal and can be a program changer from day 1.

Big Big Big year this year NO EXCUSES.

Senor Ryan Nassib has a nice ring to it! Vamos El Syracuse!

 

[All4SU]

And in Marrone's first few years, our two-deep was populated by lots of players who were true frosh, undersized, or not as athletically talented as some of the players we're getting into the program now.

Trust me--we are much better off now than we were two years ago in terms of team speed, athleticism, and size. And that is going to continue to improve as we [hopefully] see better results on the field, which will in turn allow us to recruit even better, and so on.

Agreed. And I don't understand who others don't see it the same way. Year 1 and year 2, HCDM lived and died largely with guys from GRob who could play -- those who couldn't play, or didn't want to, didn't remain in the program. Add in a special player here or there of his own -- like Lemon -- who were capable of playing early, and that was his squad. Last year, was remaining GRob holdovers, and gradual introduction of HCDM's young guys. We went from having virtually no quality depth for a handful of years, to finally having SOME quality depth this year. And by "quality" I mean a two-deep (minimum) of guys who can challenge for starting spots, or step in for the starter if need be, without much drop-off.

 

[Aweart23]

I meant Damien Rhodes as Ferri was allready gone by the time Grob came in thats a typo on my part.

Grob recruited Deleone Carter, Taj Smith and Lobdell and I am pretty sure Mike Williams as well, so how exactly did he walk into that?

I dont see how its even at all, I think its pretty clear Marrone had WAY more to work with.

I don't agree with that...Rhodes, Brinkley, Patterson and Fiametta equal out to what Marrone had to work with when he started...

Collier did nothing
Sales has a ton to prove
Lemon was brought in by Marone
Provo contributed for one year

 

[JeremyCuse]

I don't agree with that...Rhodes, Brinkley, Patterson and Fiametta equal out to what Marrone had to work with when he started...

Collier did nothing
Sales has a ton to prove
Lemon was brought in by Marone
Provo contributed for one year

Fiametta is a fullback whos career was best known for getting stuffed on 3 or 4 handoffs from inside the 1, are you really saying he was some sort of weapon?
Also if Lemon is a Marrone Recruit then Brinkley is a Grob recruit because both brought them in once the previous coach had been fired and neither were on campus yet. I am sorry but if you honestly believe Damien Rhodes, Tony Fiametta and Perry Patterson is on the same level as Sales, Mike Williams, Carter, Brinkley, Provo, Nassib, Bailey and Lemon then I dont know what tell you other then your crazy.