Bad Leonard

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

The student athletes have gone from thinking they've been cheated to actually being cheated. If you say you're going to pay someone - you better pay someone.

Not justifying what Leonard did, but I have no clue why anyone who has amassed any wealth would want to coach in this system?

 

[Cusefan0307]

Surprised this is the first time this has happened. There's been a lot of this going on.

 

[DilemaCuse]

No lawyer here but isnt this hard to prove unless you have it written in contract or job offer letter?

 

[JKinPhilly]

Technically he can't pay them can he?

 

[orange79]

No lawyer here but isnt this hard to prove unless you have it written in contract or job offer letter?

something something verbal contract something something

 

[orange79]

UNLV better get ready...

 

[Sbucketball]

I've never had a problem with Hamilton, but man that's BS to recruit a guy in and then not pay him what's promised. If you don't keep your word you've got nothing. FSU will have a defense or two but none that wouldn't make it worse for the program so i bet these guys get paid.

 

[jgeorge322]

something something verbal contract something something

Two points:

1. Oral contracts are enforceable. The fact that 6 players are all saying the same thing is probably good evidence but obviously need to know more facts.

2. You are confusing the word verbal with oral. Oral is spoken words. Verbal can be written or spoken words. Written contracts are verbal contracts.

 

[orangemass]

This model is unsustainable. It’s coming to a head.

 

[OCESIP]

So in return, what was the player's obligation to the
"business partners"? I wouldn't pay anyone $250k
just for showing up, but then this 2 way relationship
is light years removed from the original intent of NIL.

One of the first steps in getting any sense of sanity in
this environment is to get rid of the term "Name/Image/Likeness".
Kids are not paid for any of this. They are paid based on anticipated
value to enhancing the program's success on the court/field. It's
performance based, pay for play. NIL is in the rear view mirror,
never to be seen or heard from again.

 

[orange79]

Two points:

1. Oral contracts are enforceable. The fact that 6 players are all saying the same thing is probably good evidence but obviously need to know more facts.

2. You are confusing the word verbal with oral. Oral is spoken words. Verbal can be written or spoken words. Written contracts are verbal contracts.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[RyanCuse44]

It's called the Texas A&M method.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

This model is unsustainable. It’s coming to a head.

No. Lying to recruits is unsustainable, now that payments are legal. The thing that has changed is the kids now have power and a voice.

 

[OttosShoes]

Gnarly. Current system is definitely unsustainable using NIL as recruitment incentive.

Surprised we haven't seen this sooner TBH. I dunno if this is what happened but it's not hard to imagine:
Coach: "hey I got these really great prospects, give them $250k each?"
NIL Funder: "Sounds good!"
*Coach promises endorsements and gets recruits*
Coach: "OK I got them and they're here, time to strike a deal!"
NIL Funder: "Huh? Those are just 'great' prospects, not 'really great' prospects. I'm not funding them."

Now the coach is on the hook.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

So in return, what was the player's obligation to the
"business partners"? I wouldn't pay anyone $250k
just for showing up, but then this 2 way relationship
is light years removed from the original intent of NIL.

One of the first steps in getting any sense of sanity in
this environment is to get rid of the term "Name/Image/Likeness".
Kids are not paid for any of this. They are paid based on anticipated
value to enhancing the program's success on the court/field. It's
performance based, pay for play. NIL is in the rear view mirror,
never to be seen or heard from again.

How do you propose eliminating something that has become a legal standard?

 

[OttosShoes]

How do you propose eliminating something that has become a legal standard?

I don't think they need to get rid of it personally, but I think they should make it [mostly] obsolete. Actual pay-for-play from university funds would contain the back-dooring that NIL is currently responsible for. What's left is the actual value of the NIL provided.

 

[miamicuse]

The coach does not have a contract with the players.

The NIL sponsor whoever it was, say Seminole Jeep, should have a contract with the player in exchange for some service like appearances or signing or use of the name in advertising or commercials.

But the coach was the one who sort of, kind of, gave the nod to the deal in other words, he told the player that he should be getting say 4 deals from A, B, C, D totaling 450K.

So the only way this will be unfulfilled would be the NIL sponsor did not fulfil the deal, or the player did not show up in an appearance or whatever?

Even though it's six players it could be actually one incident. For example, what if a NIL sponsor committed 50K each to six players and than that business went belly up? Would need more details.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I don't think they need to get rid of it personally, but I think they should make it [mostly] obsolete. Actual pay-for-play from university funds would contain the back-dooring that NIL is currently responsible for. What's left is the actual value of the NIL provided.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, direct payment from universities to student athletes will destroy US higher education as we know it.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, direct payment from universities to student athletes will destroy US higher education as we know it.

Or, and hear me out, how about they get out of the professional sports business and get back to education? Colleges and universities got real fat and happy on getting massive checks from television and attendance along with government loans. This led to increased markups on tuition that are disconnected from any kind of market, administrative bloat and ballooning salaries for executives.

The business of higher education has been in a distorted reality for a half century and the intertwining interests are a metastatic cancer. Getting out of that fantasyland is going to cause a lot of pain.

 

[OttosShoes]

Or, and hear me out, how about they get out of the professional sports business and get back to education? Colleges and universities got real fat and happy on getting massive checks from television and attendance along with government loans. This led to increased markups on tuition that are disconnected from any kind of market, administrative bloat and ballooning salaries for executives.

The business of higher education has been in a distorted reality for a half century and the intertwining interests are a metastatic cancer. Getting out of that fantasyland is going to cause a lot of pain.

It's tough. The NFL enjoys having a tax-supported feeder system. The universities enjoy the cash cow.

The system is definitely dumb. We could dismantle the whole thing, make the NBA get serious about the G League and force the NFL to set up it's own junior hockey--which makes more sense--but then we'd be back to playing in Manley. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, direct payment from universities to student athletes will destroy US higher education as we know it.

I guess I'm coming at it from a practical standpoint. Having been a student athlete in a non-revenue sport about 20 years ago (eek my gosh) I thought it was broken then too--I couldn't collect small pots for winning mountain bike races for example. It's a tough line to walk between keeping stuff like March Madness going, and treating the student-athletes like student-athletes.

Clearly, just paying them in the current system would break things, but other changes could be made. Personally, I'd like a system akin to what the Academies do. You study, you get paid for your work, but if you don't get a degree for whatever reason? You pay it all back. Someone can be a student and a 'Pro' service member just the same as someone can be a student and a 'Pro' athlete.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Or, and hear me out, how about they get out of the professional sports business and get back to education? Colleges and universities got real fat and happy on getting massive checks from television and attendance along with government loans. This led to increased markups on tuition that are disconnected from any kind of market, administrative bloat and ballooning salaries for executives.

The business of higher education has been in a distorted reality for a half century and the intertwining interests are a metastatic cancer. Getting out of that fantasyland is going to cause a lot of pain.

I'd be supportive of that 100%.

People make a big deal out of the relationship between application increases when teams have great performance and stuff, and I do think within a university mission seeking excellence in all human endeavors including sport is noble, but the primary benefits of higher education are the education and credentials itself, and the associated professional network.

I'm going to engage in evasive maneuvers in a second here being on a Syracuse sports board, but applying to a university because a prospective student likes the sports teams is... a pretty stupid reason to apply (I get that often that's not the reason, and might just be the thing that puts a school on a prospective student's radar and they apply because of other things they find out about the school afterwards, but you know what I mean). And I know sports attendance is "part of the experience" and part of the value for many students, but... we're the only country in the world that does it this way, and we're not the only country where higher education happens effectively.

Anyway... it's all too embedded into things as you mentioned, and I do wonder if the answer is an academy style professional setup where ADs operate in partnership with a University but for business purposes are their own entity entirely. My fear there is PE will flood in, and I don't have much confidence in PE making anything better.

 

[djcon57]

It's tough. The NFL enjoys having a tax-supported feeder system. The universities enjoy the cash cow.

The system is definitely dumb. We could dismantle the whole thing, make the NBA get serious about the G League and force the NFL to set up it's own junior hockey--which makes more sense--but then we'd be back to playing in Manley. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.



I guess I'm coming at it from a practical standpoint. Having been a student athlete in a non-revenue sport about 20 years ago (eek my gosh) I thought it was broken then too--I couldn't collect small pots for winning mountain bike races for example. It's a tough line to walk between keeping stuff like March Madness going, and treating the student-athletes like student-athletes.

Clearly, just paying them in the current system would break things, but other changes could be made. Personally, I'd like a system akin to what the Academies do. You study, you get paid for your work, but if you don't get a degree for whatever reason? You pay it all back. Someone can be a student and a 'Pro' service member just the same as someone can be a student and a 'Pro' athlete.

I think ultimately the SEC and Big 10 schools just don't care if their players are students. They'll break off and make their NCAA Super League and we'll see if everyone else is ok with just being a university again

 

[kingtidge]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, direct payment from universities to student athletes will destroy US higher education as we know it.

The schools have already largely done that to themselves through their incessant tuition rates hikes (far outpacing inflation) and the their banking industry partners designing predatory tuition loan schemes to indenture students for a decade or more under tuition loan repayment debt.

 

[Owens guy]

The system very soon is going to each school will have their pots of money to pay players. Bigger schools/conferences will have bigger pots of money in their sports fund. (I've heard Minnesota for example say their total annual athletics player payouts are expected to be $21 million per year. Maybe that's the limit, I don't know)

The schools General Manager(s) (with coaches input) will pay the players directly using the sports fund. It will be up the the GM/school to decide how much to fund towards football, basketball, etc. players. I have no idea how it will work with title 9 rules and non-revenue sports getting very little.