BJ getting pulled after a minute

[CusefanATL]

Not even sure if he was pulled because of the bobble though. It was right before the 8min TO so I think JB just wanted to give G an extra minute or so of rest.

I think we have to deal with the fact that this is our 6 going forward unless Rak fouls out (Obokoh time) or there's (knock on wood) another injury.

Hell, we even saw Patterson at the 3 last night vs. a team with a bunch of trees. I think if G gets in foul trouble we might see the 3 guard lineup with BJ on the bench.

TV showed JB pissed off and motioning for a sub.

And I am 99% sure the sub happened on that exact whistle before a tv TO

 

[jgeorge322]

To me, it looked like bj head butted the ball out of bounds.

 

[81South]

Does JB really give quicker hooks than other coaches? My guess is if you really watched other teams closely you would see the same thing with certain players. Hell, I see the same thing at high school games I regularly attend. Certain players have no room for error before they get the hook. Do I like the practice? No I don't, but life isn't fair so the kids need to figure out how to deal with it.

 

[jimsonjunction]

I'm fine with it. We were trying to win the game. In my opinion, BJ was not going to help us do that last night. Down the road, I think he will.

I'd rather try to win the game then try to develop BJ.

 

[rstone7727]

I'm fine with it. We were trying to win the game. In my opinion, BJ was not going to help us do that last night. Down the road, I think he will.

I'd rather try to win the game then try to develop BJ.

Exactly, especially since we are needing a quality win desperately. Was kind of shocked BJ played at all really.

 

[moqui]

If he made multiple mistakes, fair enough. But if he got yanked for that one turnover, I think that's a huge misstep by JB and horrible for confidence building.

maybe that's a feature, not a bug

 

[PhatOrange]

It's funny cause it's true. Roberson looked to be the designated 'quick hook guy' this year until Chris McC went down and now look at him. Playing like a man.

not true at all. roberson got the quick hook last year as a frosh. this year not so much.

you dont want to get a quick hook. play defense and dont makes dumb mistakes.

kaleb got the early hook because that was his second mistake in span of about 1 minute.

Patterson, Joseph and BJ. 47 minutes

4 points (1-7 shooting), 2 rebounds, 5 assists, 6 turnovers, 1 steal and 10 fouls. They deserve all the hooks they get.

edit: and the thing is, none of them gets pulled for their horrible offense.

 

[Halfmooncuse]

Do you really feel that it helps the player/team to immediately pull someone of the game after they make a mistake and then get in their face like a raving maniac? And in front of untold viewers of the game. No wonder most of his players look scared to shat when they play. Jesus TROB cant wait to give the ball to someone else and KJ wont shoot even when hes left unguarded. When KJ blew that layup I thought he was going to run in the locker room and then hitch hike home. Maybe JB should write a book on how to coach applying the Stockholm Syndrome method.

 

[Bayside44]

You could just see BJ on the bench agonizing over that one mistake. Just let the kid play through it so he doesn't obsess over it.

Playing through mistakes at Chapel Hill won't happen for a guy like him. That wasn't Colgate.

 

[Shark58]

OR did it just delay Rak's progression to this year when he finally doesn't get the quick hook? I think we are seeing just a shell of some of these guys because they have one eye on the bench afraid to make a mistake ala Rak until this year.

Rak stopped getting the hook last year after DC went down, BMK regressed on O and Rak was moved to playing primarily 5. When those things happened, his game began to blossom.


Jimmy has ALWAYS given some guys too much rope and many more than that not enough burn imho. BJ is the guy this year. Buss and Robe also wore that hat earlier this year and all of last year. Recently it was the likes of Dion, MCW, Grant, etc.

 

[Bayside44]

JB's substitution patterns are rarely tactical anymore, other than the last 3 minutes of a close game where he subs offense/defense. For the rest of the game he only uses subs to replace the guy who made the last mistake.

His options are so limited, and it's the same 2 / 3 players for at most 2 spots out there.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

That's strange...Cooney can make enough mistakes to account for an ESPN top 10 bloopers segment and still stay in the game. Just sayin'

Well, when those guys can hit the rim on 3's on a regular basis, maybe they will get Cooney's leash.
Comparing them to him is just assinine.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

What really sucks is that Rak's performance this year will seen as an affirmation of that behavior by JB. I would argue Rak is who he is despite JB, not because of the quick hooks early in his career. I'd love to hear Rak on this subject, after a couple drinks...

I bet President Obama, who may be the greatest President of our lifetimes, would have some interesting thoughts on this as well.***

I don't know your politics but, if this is not tongue in cheek, you did write "our lifetimes" so I will remind you that there are posters on this board that go back to FDR...

 

[TinyManInside]

His options are so limited, and it's the same 2 / 3 players for at most 2 spots out there.

yes, this is 100% true, with CM going down the options from the bench are extremely limited (as in: really NO options), but that doesn't change the fact that JB's substitution patterns for the last several years have rarely been tactical in nature.

 

[dollarbill44]

The guy has to make plays when he gets his chance...he goes in and fumbles what would have been a sure two points. Then later after G fouled out he was back in and was getting tossed around by the Carolina bigs.

Everyone was getting tossed around by the UNC bigs at that point (including Rak) because the refs had proven that they weren't going to call fouls on them.

 

[AlaskaSU]

I don't know your politics but, if this is not tongue in cheek, you did write "our lifetimes" so I will remind you that there are posters on this board that go back to FDR...

Fdr and nobama are in the same boat along with hoover and wilson.

 

[81South]

Everyone was getting tossed around by the UNC bigs at that point (including Rak) because the refs had proven that they weren't going to call fouls on them.

It did get ugly there for a while. Rak must be sore today.

 

[longtimefan]

Like it or not this team needs BJ Johnson to be able to be competent off the bench. Roberson's improvement is not all a coincidence that JB can no longer pull him when he makes a mistake. We need BJ and Obokoh to contribute at least a little. I know JB is always going to play his best players as much as possible but Rak and Cooney need a little rest. I was standing up and screaming at the TV the last 2 minutes of the 1st half to get Rak out of the game. I appreciate that JB has always left guys in with 2 fouls in the first half. This almost always works to SU's benefit. But then with under a minute to play Rak was still in the game and UNC was going right at him. Credit to Rak he didn't pick up #3. But how much damage could UNC have done if Obokoh had played the last 2 minutes?

Rak had only only foul in the first half.

 

[moqui]

You could just see BJ on the bench agonizing over that one mistake. Just let the kid play through it so he doesn't obsess over it.

some will tell you that JB doesn't run players off, but that is what it looks like when someone is being guided toward the exit

 

[SBU72]

Boeheim did the same thing to Joseph when he fumbled the fast break out of bounds within the first couple minutes of the game. It always feels so humiliating when he does that. The players look devastated. He did it to Christmas, too . . . . and now look at him.

Coaching is beyond my keth and ken.

Watched the tape today and it seems to me that it was the 2nd mistake. He bobbled the ball on a previous trip down court, dribbling into triple coverage. JB let it go. Dribbling it off his leg was he was his 2nd. He either was over excited or not concentrating enough and was told so by JB when he sat down.

 

[Ghost]

It is time for BJ to get some regular minutes, no matter how badly he plays. I refuse to believe that his bobbling that ball out of bounds last night was anything other than a case of the yips. It wasn't a bad decision, being in the wrong place or being physically overmatched...simply not being able to relax and do what he is capable of.

This is where I am now. Let BJ play awful defense down low, and see if his offense comes around a bit. We saw him score 20+ in the operner, so it's not like he's some hopeless that can't put a round ball in the basket.

Have G and Cooney up top, it's not like we lose much. We get a pretty bad defensive BJ down low, in place of a bad defensive guard up top. It's a wash, and honestly since ACC play started G hasn't been as effective on the boards anyway. BJ seems to have a knack for that.

As someone that thought JB's quick hooks did little to help Rak early on, I'm okay in this "lost season" to force feed the kid some minutes. If he flops - he flops. But we're doing that for Joseph, so why not hand off some minutes for BJ and see if he rises to the challenge. The quick hook just makes the kids press too much IMO - they end up looking like walk-ons, just chucking crap up because and playing scared they think they have to impress to stay on the court. It just leads to rushing everything, and more mistakes...a snowball effect.

Let them settle in, and keep impressing upon them that the defensive effort keeps them on the court...

 

[MikeSU02]

Where did I say he was 10x better than anyone else?

You said this, "Maybe because he does 10x more positive and also impacts the ability of others to get open looks?"

I missed hitting it verbatim, but I was close. This was in response to BJ getting pulled quickly after one mistake versus Cooney making many.

To know his impact on the game, listen to the other coaches.

I don't care what any coach allegedly says. I know what I see. His stat line was awful against UNC. 28 points on 26 FGA when he isn't our best player is outrageous. That isn't even counting him barely contributing boards or assists since he was in the whole game. That also isn't counting his poor defensive lapses and his long boards leading to breaks coming from his ridiculous shots against a team that runs. And his decision making with shooting isn't isolated to this game.

I guarantee any coach we have yet to play would take that stat line over and over if it could be guaranteed. It's inefficient, detrimental to the betterment of the team and takes possessions away from our best player, who is Rak. Rak is vying to be an All American. TC isn't even remotely in that conversation.

I think TC is a good player, but that was a bad game. He is not nearly good enough to pull possessions from Rak.

For the year he has 257 FGA and 309 points. Rakeem has 249 FGA and 387 points. eFG%, which accounts for the value of 3 pointers v. 2 pointers, is 49% to 59%. True Shooting %, Win Shares, etc. I can go on and on. They all say the same thing. Our not-best-player accounted for more than double the shots than our best player. It's either bad coaching or bad decision making by TC or both. I don't care how many HoF responses I get from posting this.

I'd love to hear all these coaches who are gushing about TC who aren't counting their lucky stars that TC is taking more shots than Rak. Does he have an imapct on the game? Sure. Everyone that plays does. But that is a cop out when discussing this.

 

[rrlbees]

You said this, "Maybe because he does 10x more positive and also impacts the ability of others to get open looks?" I missed hitting it verbatim, but I was close. This was in response to BJ getting pulled quickly after one mistake versus Cooney making many. I don't care what any coach allegedly says. I know what I see. His stat line was awful against UNC. 28 points on 26 FGA when he isn't our best player is outrageous. That isn't even counting him barely contributing boards or assists since he was in the whole game. That also isn't counting his poor defensive lapses and his long boards leading to breaks coming from his ridiculous shots against a team that runs. And his decision making with shooting isn't isolated to this game. I guarantee any coach we have yet to play would take that stat line over and over if it could be guaranteed. It's inefficient, detrimental to the betterment of the team and takes possessions away from our best player, who is Rak. Rak is vying to be an All American. TC isn't even remotely in that conversation. I think TC is a good player, but that was a bad game. He is not nearly good enough to pull possessions from Rak. For the year he has 257 FGA and 309 points. Rakeem has 249 FGA and 387 points. eFG%, which accounts for the value of 3 pointers v. 2 pointers, is 49% to 59%. True Shooting %, Win Shares, etc. I can go on and on. They all say the same thing. Our not-best-player accounted for more than double the shots than our best player. It's either bad coaching or bad decision making by TC or both. I don't care how many HoF responses I get from posting this. I'd love to hear all these coaches who are gushing about TC who aren't counting their lucky stars that TC is taking more shots than Rak. Does he have an imapct on the game? Sure. Everyone that plays does. But that is a cop out when discussing this.

10x the negative things he does.

As to last night, it was not an easy task getting Rak the ball. It's why he was 1-5 the first half. You must think you can just toss it in there at anytime.

 

[NineOneSeven]

You said this, "Maybe because he does 10x more positive and also impacts the ability of others to get open looks?"

I missed hitting it verbatim, but I was close. This was in response to BJ getting pulled quickly after one mistake versus Cooney making many.



I don't care what any coach allegedly says. I know what I see. His stat line was awful against UNC. 28 points on 26 FGA when he isn't our best player is outrageous. That isn't even counting him barely contributing boards or assists since he was in the whole game. That also isn't counting his poor defensive lapses and his long boards leading to breaks coming from his ridiculous shots against a team that runs. And his decision making with shooting isn't isolated to this game.

I guarantee any coach we have yet to play would take that stat line over and over if it could be guaranteed. It's inefficient, detrimental to the betterment of the team and takes possessions away from our best player, who is Rak. Rak is vying to be an All American. TC isn't even remotely in that conversation.

I think TC is a good player, but that was a bad game. He is not nearly good enough to pull possessions from Rak.

For the year he has 257 FGA and 309 points. Rakeem has 249 FGA and 387 points. eFG%, which accounts for the value of 3 pointers v. 2 pointers, is 49% to 59%. True Shooting %, Win Shares, etc. I can go on and on. They all say the same thing. Our not-best-player accounted for more than double the shots than our best player. It's either bad coaching or bad decision making by TC or both. I don't care how many HoF responses I get from posting this.

I'd love to hear all these coaches who are gushing about TC who aren't counting their lucky stars that TC is taking more shots than Rak. Does he have an imapct on the game? Sure. Everyone that plays does. But that is a cop out when discussing this.

We won't win many more games with 20 shot attempts from TC.

Unfortunately the issue is he is forced into being more than he is, because of the lack of depth around him.

He's got the Donte Green light.

I don't care if rak is triple teamed, I want him to have the ball. But, I'm biased

 

[MikeSU02]

10x the negative things he does.

As to last night, it was not an easy task getting Rak the ball. It's why he was 1-5 the first half. You must think you can just toss it in there at anytime.

I don't think it's too much to ask a HOF coach with top 100 talent surrounding an all America center to get said All American more looks than he did.

Either his scheme stunk or he allowed TC way too long of a leash with shooting too quickly instead of pounding it into Rak.

I'm not trying to be disagreeable, but we aren't talking about reinventing the wheel.

If we can't find a way to get an AA big the ball, then we don't deserve to have AA bigs.

I'm not giving the team a pass because we couldn't competently execute a seal and entry pass to our best player consistently, yet are ok with TC chucking and ducking to the tune of 26 FGA and 38% shooting.

I'm happy to agree to disagree, but I'm not conceding the point.