BJ getting pulled after a minute

[xc84]

If people were robots I'd agree with you, but they're not. The speed of a game is different than practice. When a guy is overwhelmed because he doesn't get the chance to ever adjust to game speed he's going to make mistakes.

They have got chances. Roberson proved he could step up. He proved it by making less mistakes and playing better. I think Patterson played at the end of the game... wasn't like he was banished forever.

I tell my 8 year-old daughter, if you want the coach to play you in the infield, make every play that comes to you in the outfield. If you make mistakes, you are not going to play infield. Guess what? She stopped making mistakes in the outfield and the coach noticed and played her in the infield.

 

[Cuse Action]

I know that he bobbled that ball under the basket and turned it over. Was that the only reason Boeheim pulled him, or did he make another mistake that I didn't notice?

If he made multiple mistakes, fair enough. But if he got yanked for that one turnover, I think that's a huge misstep by JB and horrible for confidence building.

Remember Bobby Lazor? Pulled after 8 seconds.

 

[djcon57]

Remember Bobby Lazor? Pulled after 8 seconds.

Then went on to avg 18 PPG for Arizona State while we went to the NIT the next year with Janulis and Cipolla in the back end of the zone

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Agreed...and 30-35 Mins of Rak and Cooney are the players that give you best chance to win.

And they are playing 40. Something's got to give. JB's stubbornness, or Rak's back, or Cooney's knees.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

They have got chances. Roberson proved he could step up. He proved it by making less mistakes and playing better. I think Patterson played at the end of the game... wasn't like he was banished forever.

I tell my 8 year-old daughter, if you want the coach to play you in the infield, make every play that comes to you in the outfield. If you make mistakes, you are not going to play infield. Guess what? She stopped making mistakes in the outfield and the coach noticed and played her in the infield.

That is so not the reason Roberson is playing. JB's hand was forced, Roberson got the playing time despite making the same mistakes, has learned from them, and is now playing much better. I don't get how people aren't seeing this.

 

[Brooky03]

I didn't bash any of our players. My exagerration was obvious, but an injured Cooney is still better than any one of those 3 currently, so he deserves a very very long leash. And players should obviously get rests. Who was arguing that Cooney should never come out of the game?

 

[xc84]

That is so not the reason Roberson is playing. JB's hand was forced, Roberson got the playing time despite making the same mistakes, has learned from them, and is now playing much better. I don't get how people aren't seeing this.

Roberson is the best option available. Ultimately, that is why people play.

 

[sufandu]

They have got chances. Roberson proved he could step up. He proved it by making less mistakes and playing better. I think Patterson played at the end of the game... wasn't like he was banished forever.

I tell my 8 year-old daughter, if you want the coach to play you in the infield, make every play that comes to you in the outfield. If you make mistakes, you are not going to play infield. Guess what? She stopped making mistakes in the outfield and the coach noticed and played her in the infield.

Yeah, he stepped up AFTER JB had no choice but to play him real minutes. It's given him a chance to play through mistakes knowing he won't get pulled. He's learning from those mistakes and getting more comfortable. The more comfortable he gets the fewer mistakes he'll make. We saw the same thing with Rak in the tournament his freshman year when Fab was suspended.

 

[moqui]

Yeah, he stepped up AFTER JB had no choice but to play him real minutes.

Roberson was averaging about 18 minutes per game before CM went down, and in the last 7 games prior to that injury, he was averaging 25 mpg. So JB had already made the decision to go with him long before the season entered the "he had no choice" phase

 

[xc84]

Yeah, he stepped up AFTER JB had no choice but to play him real minutes. It's given him a chance to play through mistakes knowing he won't get pulled. He's learning from those mistakes and getting more comfortable. The more comfortable he gets the fewer mistakes he'll make. We saw the same thing with Rak in the tournament his freshman year when Fab was suspended.

I think moqui's reply is a good one and captures the essentials. JB plays the guys who can help him win. Roberson stepped up. JB played him more. McColloch went down, JB played Roberson even more.

When given the chance, players have to take advantage of it. The two were are discussing will get more chances. They will take advantage of them. If so, they will get more playing time.

 

[Ghost]

He was not pulled for the bobble, he was pulled because he was not playing defense.

Then why does Joseph play so much?

 

[sufandu]

I think moqui's reply is a good one and captures the essentials. JB plays the guys who can help him win. Roberson stepped up. JB played him more. McColloch went down, JB played Roberson even more.

When given the chance, players have to take advantage of it. The two were are discussing will get more chances. They will take advantage of them. If so, they will get more playing time.

Moqui's point is accurate and valid. Are you saying my previous example is not? Since you never acknowledged it, I'll reiterate, in case you missed or ignored it. As a freshman, Christmas played much better when Melo was suspended and he wasn't looking over his shoulder. I know there are other examples, this a quick one off of the top of my head.

Obviously JB plays the guys that have proven themselves. He also yanks some guys instantly after they make one mistake while letting others play through theirs. You can see that some of the guys that are routinely yanked quickly play tentatively and look over their shoulders. There's no way to know whether BJ would work out his jitters and play better if he was given a few more consecutive minutes because it's not going to happen. Even if he did, people would just say he must be practicing better and that's why he's getting more playing time. Of course this may be valid too. I don't think either one exists in a vacuum. Guys that get more court time feel better in games. Practicing against your teammates that you're already familiar with at less than game speed absent the crowds that accompany a game alone will not prepare you for a game atmosphere the way the game minutes will.

If he has been truly practicing that bad, he should've never seen the court so that a redshirt would be in play. We all know his age and build would've justified it. Why play a guy one minute in a game? It's not enough for him to learn anything. It's not enough to really see how well he's going to play. And it's not enough for him to give anyone a real break.

 

[SUbear]

That is so not the reason Roberson is playing. JB's hand was forced, Roberson got the playing time despite making the same mistakes, has learned from them, and is now playing much better. I don't get how people aren't seeing this.

No he is playing pretty much the same, just can not be taken out. He always rebounded well, which he still is, but his defensive play and his offense are still not good. Will he improve? I hope so because there is no option for this team after him.

 

[SUbear]

Then why does Joseph play so much?

JB is hoping the light goes on at some point this year. This team is just limited in its options. So far he does two bad things foe every good thing.

 

[Ghost]

JB is hoping the light goes on at some point this year. This team is just limited in its options. So far he does two bad things foe every good thing.

I know, but BJ sits for playing bad defense...so, why not sit Joseph more and run G up top. Exchange bad defense at the guard position, for bad defense at the forward spot.

 

[SUbear]

I know, but BJ sits for playing bad defense...so, why not sit Joseph more and run G up top. Exchange bad defense at the guard position, for bad defense at the forward spot.

Because many of BJs deficiencies are physical for his position and harder to overcome, add in his mental errors and it is really difficult. Joseph's problems are largely mental errors and that is why JB is giving him greater play hoping the light goes on. We have a team that frankly is not really ready for top notch competition.

 

[Ghost]

Because many of BJs deficiencies are physical for his position and harder to overcome, add in his mental errors and it is really difficult. Joseph's problems are largely mental errors and that is why JB is giving him greater play hoping the light goes on. We have a team that frankly is not really ready for top notch competition.

BJ rebounds well - from what we've seen. He's averaging over 10 per 40 minutes. He had 7 in 13 minutes against Cal, the only power conference team he logged significant minutes against. I'm not sure anything physical is holding him back - we haven't really seen much of him.

He's just awful on defense, but for my money Joseph is as well.

 

[SUbear]

BJ rebounds well - from what we've seen. He's averaging over 10 per 40 minutes. He had 7 in 13 minutes against Cal, the only power conference team he logged significant minutes against. I'm not sure anything physical is holding him back - we haven't really seen much of him.

He's just awful on defense, but for my money Joseph is as well.

Well I think JB sees it differently from you, and I certainly do. You are correct however about both players defense.

 

[Ghost]

Well I think JB sees it differently from you, and I certainly do. You are correct however about both players defense.

I know -

I think I've taken on the whole, "season's done, let's roll the dice on everyone," attitude!

And by everyone I mean BJ since our bench is so thin.

 

[xc84]

Moqui's point is accurate and valid. Are you saying my previous example is not? Since you never acknowledged it, I'll reiterate, in case you missed or ignored it. As a freshman, Christmas played much better when Melo was suspended and he wasn't looking over his shoulder. I know there are other examples, this a quick one off of the top of my head.

Obviously JB plays the guys that have proven themselves. He also yanks some guys instantly after they make one mistake while letting others play through theirs. You can see that some of the guys that are routinely yanked quickly play tentatively and look over their shoulders. There's no way to know whether BJ would work out his jitters and play better if he was given a few more consecutive minutes because it's not going to happen. Even if he did, people would just say he must be practicing better and that's why he's getting more playing time. Of course this may be valid too. I don't think either one exists in a vacuum. Guys that get more court time feel better in games. Practicing against your teammates that you're already familiar with at less than game speed absent the crowds that accompany a game alone will not prepare you for a game atmosphere the way the game minutes will.

If he has been truly practicing that bad, he should've never seen the court so that a redshirt would be in play. We all know his age and build would've justified it. Why play a guy one minute in a game? It's not enough for him to learn anything. It's not enough to really see how well he's going to play. And it's not enough for him to give anyone a real break.

Here is the thing. You say Christmas played better when Melo was suspended and he wasn't looking over his shoulder. Maybe he just played better because he got better over the season and was ready to play. It's just an opinion, not a fact. Like mine. Same goes for these guys. Of course playing in games is great experience and it helps you get better but there has to be a balance between getting the experience and hurting your team. That is the tightrope Boeheim has to walk. He wants these guys to play and when he thinks they are ready to play, he gives them more time. He's not an idiot.

 

[sufandu]

Here is the thing. You say Christmas played better when Melo was suspended and he wasn't looking over his shoulder. Maybe he just played better because he got better over the season and was ready to play. It's just an opinion, not a fact. Like mine. Same goes for these guys. Of course playing in games is great experience and it helps you get better but there has to be a balance between getting the experience and hurting your team. That is the tightrope Boeheim has to walk. He wants these guys to play and when he thinks they are ready to play, he gives them more time. He's not an idiot.

Never said he was an idiot but neither are many of his contemporaries that routinely play deeper benches than he does that are quite successful. Christmas isn't the only example. There have been other players that got a sudden increase in playing time do to circumstances beyond JB's control that suddenly looked better once they got increased minutes.

 

[xc84]

Never said he was an idiot but neither are many of his contemporaries that routinely play deeper benches than he does that are quite successful. Christmas isn't the only example. There have been other players that got a sudden increase in playing time do to circumstances beyond JB's control that suddenly looked better once they got increased minutes.

I disagree that Christmas is even an example of what you contend so we are dead in the water there.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I disagree that Christmas is even an example of what you contend so we are dead in the water there.

Then you haven't watched in the last couple years. When BMK was hurt, Rak stepped up and played really well. JB has had a bug up his butt for Rak all along. The kid was ALWAYS looking over his shoulder. Then he'd make a mistake and beanpole with mittens for hands would come in. I don't mean to be that harsh about BMK but he shouldn't have even run down the court to play on the offensive end. This is the Rak we would have had last year if JB allowed it to happen naturally.

 

[rrlbees]

Then you haven't watched in the last couple years. When BMK was hurt, Rak stepped up and played really well. JB has had a bug up his butt for Rak all along. The kid was ALWAYS looking over his shoulder. Then he'd make a mistake and beanpole with mittens for hands would come in. I don't mean to be that harsh about BMK but he shouldn't have even run down the court to play on the offensive end. This is the Rak we would have had last year if JB allowed it to happen naturally.

Completely wrong. Rak didn't always have the "want to" or "want it". Kudos to him for becoming the best he can be.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Completely wrong. Rak didn't always have the "want to" or "want it". Kudos to him for becoming the best he can be.

I'd argue he did. His coach didn't want him to have it, and the guards were completely inept at getting it to him. He'd miss one shot and they'd never look his way again. Imagine that frustration.