Block / Charge

[RF2044]

NCAA officiating, which has always sucked to begin with, continues to get this play wrong.

 

[Waltdods]

NCAA officiating, which has always sucked to begin with, continues to get this play wrong.

The problem isn’t the officials. The problem is the rulebook. It incentivizes players to play “defense” by trying to get run over and then requires the referee to make an almost impossible split-second determination about whether the player is 1) moving (2) if so which way (3) and how straight the body is and (4) who’s space was being occupied.

 

[reedny]

I think it's the other way around -- the problem is with the officials. It's not always easy, but that's what they're hired to do and they can't seem to get it right.

Recent rules history backs this up. The latest change (2016-17) to block/charges was to eliminate the gathering concept to make it "easier" to officiate (?). In case there's any question about where the confusion was, Mike Waters did an article on the change featuring a photo of Tony Greene being called out by JB after he STB by calling CJ Fair for a "block" at Cameron Indoor. The modified (current) rule requires defenders to be in stationary guarding position before the offensive player "leaves the floor". NCAA changes charge-block rule and adds several experimental rules

Not only is the new rule no easier to officiate, it penalizes offensive players ... because defenders are quick enough to slide over and get set AS the offensive players are gathering to jump. Oh well.

 

[EastCoast2]

I think flopping should be a reviewable play, and a T should be given for offenders.

 

[Waltdods]

I think it's the other way around -- the problem is with the officials. It's not always easy, but that's what they're hired to do and they can't seem to get it right.

...

Not only is the new rule no easier to officiate, it penalizes offensive players ... because defenders are quick enough to slide over and get set AS the offensive players are gathering to jump. Oh well.

These two paragraphs seem to be in conflict.

The NCAA should eliminate charges against secondary defenders unless the secondary defender is already in position before the offensive player makes his move to the basket. This would lead to far fewer bang-bang calls, more points, and require less judgment from officials.

 

[reedny]

These two paragraphs seem to be in conflict.

The NCAA should eliminate charges against secondary defenders unless the secondary defender is already in position before the offensive player makes his move to the basket. This would lead to far fewer bang-bang calls, more points, and require less judgment from officials.

There's no conflict. My point was that the rule was changed to "help" the refs (it isn't THAT hard, as NBA refs demonstrate every night). While I agree with your suggestion -- "makes his move" is basically the old rule ("gathering") before they changed it to help confused officials.

 

[creatorsgam]

The answer choice should be “No,” and nothing else.

 

[Waltdods]

There's no conflict b/c my point was that the rule has been changed because officials can't get it right. Your suggestion is a good one though -- it's the old rule before they changed it to eliminate "confusion".

But the rule is still the problem. That the NCAA has made some (halfhearted and as you point out probably counterproductive) efforts to fix it doesn’t really change that.

If I make up a rule and the people paid to implement it are incapable of doing so, the problem is the rule not the people.

 

[reedny]

But the rule is still the problem. That the NCAA has made some (halfhearted and as you point out probably counterproductive) efforts to fix it doesn’t really change that.

If I make up a rule and the people paid to implement it are incapable of doing so, the problem is the rule not the people.

Guess we'll have to disagree. As you admit, "gathering" or "making a move" should be the point at which the defender has to be stationary. It's not that hard a rule to interpret. Unfortunately, the recent change (back to "leaving the floor") won't help incompetent refs and will encourage defenders to slide at the last minute (after gathering) and create a "crash". This is exactly what the NCAA stated it doesn't want. NBA refs -- some of them quite young -- have very few problems making block/charge calls. If some college refs can't pass the B/C test, it is the tests' fault, or do they need more training or better eyesight?

 

[EastCoast2]

I would also make the "kick out a leg on a jump shot" move an offensive foul. It's a BS play and is almost as bad as Grayson Trip Allen.

 

[Waltdods]

Guess we'll have to disagree. As you admit, "gathering" or "making a move" should be the point at which the defender has to be stationary. It's not that hard a rule to interpret. Unfortunately, the recent change (back to "leaving the floor") won't help incompetent refs and will encourage defenders to slide at the last minute (after gathering) and create a "crash". This is exactly what the NCAA stated it doesn't want. NBA refs -- some of them quite young -- have very few problems making block/charge calls. If some college refs can't pass the B/C test, it is the tests' fault, or do they need more training or better eyesight?

I think I am advocating something more radical than the gathering standard, which I understood (maybe wrongly) as meaning beginning the shooting motion. I mean essentially the first step towards the basket. I would essentially end charges being drawn by secondary defenders. I really don’t see what the rule adds to the game.

On who’s responsible for the mistakes, to the extent they are mistakes, I agree this is mostly a perspective question. But I’m just not sure what you get by saying “they just need to get better”. Clearly they’re incapable of getting better.

 

[Entropic]

I would also make the "kick out a leg on a jump shot" move an offensive foul. It's a BS play and is almost as bad as Grayson Trip Allen.

Absolutely, I am usually by myself ranting about that one. Seems most don't care.

 

[OrangeDW]

Flopping should be a T, undercutting should be reviewable and a potential ejection.

The whole “taking a charge” thing is absolutely ridiculous. Just play defense.

And my faith in them getting it right is gone. It’s been a big problem for 20 years.

 

[Digger]

Refs get off on making the charge call

90% of them are called with Frank Drebin behind home plate enthusiasm

 

[EastCoast2]

Refs get off on making the charge call

90% of them are called with Frank Drebin behind home plate enthusiasm

 

[EastCoast2]

Off topic but hilarious clip from the same movie:

 

[Arangeman]

Simple. Call it like the NBA. You have to steamroll a guy to get called for a charge.

 

[Scooch]

Make charging legal. This sport needs more offense.

 

[GardenOrange]

Its almost never charging, yet it gets called alot. Defender slides quickly to a spot of impact with the offensive guy who is beating him. They both arrive at the spot at the same time but the defender falls down backwards. Its a block not a charge.

 

[kuethstheman]

Just happened to FSU a minute ago.

 

[Shark58]

 

[AZOrange]

It’s the worst rule in sports. It’s not even a play. Can’t do it in nba

 

[reedny]

I would also make the "kick out a leg on a jump shot" move an offensive foul. It's a BS play and is almost as bad as Grayson Trip Allen.

And deliberately undercutting a player jumping for an alley-oop. This happens at least once a game it seems. We've had Moyer, Doleza, Battle and Brissett all go down hard as a result. Past players as well. It's a dangerous and nearly always malicious play that should be called EVERY time.

 

[OttoMets]

Flopping should be a T, undercutting should be reviewable and a potential ejection.

The whole “taking a charge” thing is absolutely ridiculous. Just play defense.

And my faith in them getting it right is gone. It’s been a big problem for 20 years.

This is why I place the blame on the officials rather than the rulemakers. Though if someone could produce a handy timeline of every block/charge rule change in the last 30 years, maybe that could change my mind.

But in the '80s and '90s, I remember anticipation calls being about the worst aspect of officiating. Block/charge got screwed up now and again, but no more often than other calls. It's really in the last 10 or 15 years that this seems to be called wrong as often as it's called right.

 

[Bayside44]

One of the ESPN guys said that on review 65% of the block / charge calls were wrong in games. And it's almost always a charge called.