Buddy had 0 rebounds

[SmilinBob]

Hey lots of 30-40 yr old guys play at the pace that Buddy does and go 2 hrs of rec ball without subbing out.. girard has a much higher motor and need a little time to sit or he might be playing all 40 too.

That is one of the first thoughts that went into my head as well.

 

[shandeezy7]

Triche played some PG and could penetrate and did more things on the court. Buddy needs to develop a second trait on the court. Like Rautins got steals.
He can’t just be a high volume streak shooter.
He is a good piece. He isn’t a superstar.

Right, but I'm focusing just on rebounding, as that was the original theme of the thread. I agree that Buddy probably shouldn't be playing 40 minutes every night, but look at the roster that we have. Who the heck is going to score the ball for us outside of Hughes, Buddy and Joe? Marek doesn't look to score. Our centers are basically only scoring if the ball falls in their lap under the basket. Querrier is incredibly unpolished offensively. Howard Washington is a facilitator and rarely looks to score. Goodine has been an inconsistent mess and doesn't seem to be able to hit a jumper. When you only have three guys on the roster that you can reasonably trust to put the ball into the basket on a consistent basis, this is what you end up with.

 

[br801]

Sounds like the coaches better be looking at tape and seeing why and where the players are and trying to fix some of those problems.

Unless they're getting exceptionally good rebounding out of the 4 and 5 spots, that would seem like a reasonable thing to do.

 

[Alsacs]

Right, but I'm focusing just on rebounding, as that was the original theme of the thread. I agree that Buddy probably shouldn't be playing 40 minutes every night, but look at the roster that we have. Who the heck is going to score the ball for us outside of Hughes, Buddy and Joe? Marek doesn't look to score. Our centers are basically only scoring if the ball falls in their lap under the basket. Querrier is incredibly unpolished offensively. Howard Washington is a facilitator and rarely looks to score. Goodine has been an inconsistent mess and doesn't seem to be able to hit a jumper. When you only have three guys on the roster that you can reasonably trust to put the ball into the basket on a consistent basis, this is what you end up with.

How are the players going to get better that aren’t playing then?
If you think practice that’s laughable. We have no clue what happens in practice and honestly the benefit of the doubt for player development is about gone for me anyway.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I think the thing that bothers me most about Buddy is that I feel his effort on rebounds and defense was at a much higher level last year. Maybe he didn't get the boards or contest all the shots, but he tried. Or seemed to try.

 

[Alsacs]

I think the thing that bothers me most about Buddy is that I feel his effort on rebounds and defense was at a much higher level last year. Maybe he didn't get the boards or contest all the shots, but he tried. Or seemed to try.

How can you give max effort if you are going to play 40 minutes.
It wears you down.
I get these are young kids but players effort can’t be as high if they are playing the whole game.
I mean it’s just a fact.
Other teams have better players and they don’t play the whole game for a reason.

 

[shandeezy7]

How are the players going to get better that aren’t playing then?
If you think practice that’s laughable. We have no clue what happens in practice and honestly the benefit of the doubt for player development is about gone for me anyway.

If you don't want to try to win this year and just punt till next year, then play Goodine and Guerrier a ton of minutes (and maybe that should be the route they go, since this team isn't going anywhere), but I think it's pretty obvious that neither of those guys are going to help improve the offense much at all, and are more likely to be detrimental to our ability to score the ball. The one guy that I don't understand why he doesn't get more playing time is Braswell. He would clearly provide rebounding help, improve athleticism on the court and has proven that he can shoot the ball.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Triche played on teams with BMK, Rak, Jerami Grant, MCW, Southerland, CJ Fair, Fab, Rick J... There's only so many rebounds to go around. And yet against Marquette in the tourney, he had 6 and MCW had 11. Guards need to contribute, especially on this awful rebounding team we currently run out there.

The 2012 and 2013 teams couldn't rebound at all. KenPom tracks this back to 1997. Our best rebounding team since that period was 2008. Otherwise we are regularly ranked 200 or worse in rebounding ever year. Has nothing to do with the players.

 

[Alsacs]

If you don't want to try to win this year and just punt till next year, then play Goodine and Guerrier a ton of minutes (and maybe that should be the route they go, since this team isn't going anywhere), but I think it's pretty obvious that neither of those guys are going to help improve the offense much at all, and are more likely to be detrimental to our ability to score the ball. The one guy that I don't understand why he doesn't get more playing time is Braswell. He would clearly provide rebounding help, improve athleticism on the court and has proven that he can shoot the ball.

I really don’t care about trying to win an extra game this year.
I want to be a contender for titles. Be it regular season, conference tournaments, NCAA tournaments.

Not try to Captain Ahab every single regular season win we can in a mediocre season.

Play the players the difference between everyone non Hughes on this team is minuscule.

 

[br801]

I think the thing that bothers me most about Buddy is that I feel his effort on rebounds and defense was at a much higher level last year. Maybe he didn't get the boards or contest all the shots, but he tried. Or seemed to try.

Last year he was a scoring/energy guy off the bench looking to establish himself. This season his role is that of a starter, and perhaps he is subconsciously playing less aggressively, knowing he will be relied upon for big minutes (and bigger still with Carey temporarily out of the picture) and a more significant portion of the scoring load.

 

[FloridaFan]

Are we gonna have a thread a game posting about buddy? At this point can we have a megathread so we can isolate all these comments there

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Was just going to bring up Triche's rebounding stats. He was stronger and more athletic than buddy, yet I don't remember countless threads singling him out for his rebounding numbers.

I can count the number of threads I've made on the subject.

One.

 

[br801]

Are we gonna have a thread a game posting about buddy? At this point can we have a megathread so we can isolate all these comments there

You've been around the board long enough to know how these things go.

 

[Arangeman]

Defensive +/- and D-rating say he's not good.

Correct. He is below average. And the advanced stats support that Girard is an average defender. Lumping them together as equally defensively deficient is wrong.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Are we gonna have a thread a game posting about buddy? At this point can we have a megathread so we can isolate all these comments there

Look, I don't know how to Millhouse this thing and tell how many times a player doesn't check out of a game and doesn't accidentally get a single rebound, but it seems like a pretty exceptional thing to have happen.

 

[shandeezy7]

I really don’t care about trying to win an extra game this year.
I want to be a contender for titles. Be it regular season, conference tournaments, NCAA tournaments.

Not try to Captain Ahab every single regular season win we can in a mediocre season.

Play the players the difference between everyone non Hughes on this team is minuscule.

Agree to disagree on that point, especially talking offensively. Like I said before, Joe and Buddy are the only other guys on this team that can be relied upon to score consistently. That's on the coaching staff for having a roster constructed in that way, but giving guys who can't score more minutes won't magically lead to them becoming significant offensive contributors.

 

[dollarbill44]

Can't do that...sorry if that bothered you.

Can't?
That (my remark) is a snarky refrain used often amongst my friends, family and I in this day and age of instant information. I meant no offense.
Btw, he shot 36.2% and 35.9% from 3 in his 2 years at LaSalle.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Look, I don't know how to Millhouse this thing and tell how many times a player doesn't check out of a game and doesn't accidentally get a single rebound, but it seems like a pretty exceptional thing to have happen.

Lemme help you out there:

Get The Most Accurate Basketball Stats | Stathead.com

Get basketball player and team stats and a lot more from the most powerful research tool in sports, Stathead.com

cbbref.com

From 2010-11 through to now, there have been six games where a player played 40+ minutes and had zero rebounds: Cooney twice(!), Scoop, Tyler Ennis, Tyus Battle, and Buddy.

 

[Alsacs]

Agree to disagree on that point, especially talking offensively. Like I said before, Joe and Buddy are the only other guys on this team that can be relied upon to score consistently. That's on the coaching staff for having a roster constructed in that way, but giving guys who can't score more minutes won't magically lead to them becoming significant offensive contributors.

We are deciding to try and outscore teams.
Which I do give the coach credit for atleast realizing the 53-51 games are brutal.

I just don’t think Buddy and Joe right are guys who will be consistent enough to put that burden on them.
It’s just obvious watching them.
Thus develop the roster. See what you got.
I don’t want the same crap next year.

 

[Ghost]

Lemme help you out there:

Get The Most Accurate Basketball Stats | Stathead.com

Get basketball player and team stats and a lot more from the most powerful research tool in sports, Stathead.com

cbbref.com

From 2010-11 through to now, there have been six games where a player played 40+ minutes and had zero rebounds: Cooney twice(!), Scoop, Tyler Ennis, Tyus Battle, and Buddy.

Removing PGs from the equation, we have Cooney, Battle and Buddy!

Cooney also had the most incredibly useless performance any player has ever had mixed in there! JB really was too tough on a guy like Roberson for some of his 3 rebound performances, when you look at something like that!

A zero assist, zero rebound, zero steal, zero block performance! He didn't even commit a foul! Amazing!

 

[hoopsupstate]

Buddy is the kind of shooter you think will make every shot. I’m sure J.B. feels this way. You think the next shot is always going in. Buddy doesn’t turn the ball over either. My complaint is he doesn’t get his nose dirty and won’t mix it up at all. He’s pretty soft.

 

[br801]

We are deciding to try and outscore teams.
Which I do give the coach credit for atleast realizing the 53-51 games are brutal.

I just don’t think Buddy and Joe right are guys who will be consistent enough to put that burden on them.
It’s just obvious watching them.
Thus develop the roster. See what you got.
I don’t want the same crap next year.

My guess is JB is trying to win games now with offense because he believes that gives him the best chance of winning with this group. If he thought he could win more games by getting into rock fights, that's what he would do. It has always been about winning the game at hand with him, and I won't fault him for that.

 

[Alsacs]

Buddy is the kind of shooter you think will make every shot. I’m sure J.B. feels this way. You think the next shot is always going in. Buddy doesn’t turn the ball over either. My complaint is he doesn’t get his nose dirty and won’t mix it up at all. He’s pretty soft.

Buddy is not that type a shooter.
He isn’t Duncan Robinson or Nic Stauskikas or a non NBA player who could shoot in college like Brady Heslip.

Andy Rautins took 4 years to become the player he was his senior year.
Buddy is in year 2. He shouldn’t be expected to be a player we dependent on. He isn’t that good. He is a role player.
That isn’t even a problem. It’s a good thing. Put Buddy on Duke he is the piece that helps them win a NC. He would be like Billy Edelin type player for our NC team but not a PG but tha type.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Buddy doesn’t turn the ball over either

well, not when you don't count the missed jumpers that SU doesn't rebound, which at the end of the game is the same thing as a turnover. If SU intentionally avoids rebounding to get back on defense (a defense that also doesn't lead to rebounds) it means that increased steals out of the zone and an efficient offense can overcome a rebounding deficit.

However, I don't think SU has the personnel this season to do so at a sufficient rate. I've posted before that when the zone is on, it is an absolute thing of beauty (like that thumping of #1 Indiana in the sweet sixteen), but a lot of times the sacrifices that need to be made elsewhere don't justify the continued use of an all-zone defense, which is why there are very few D1 teams that try to emulate the philosophy.

 

[Fly Rodder]

My guess is JB is trying to win games now with offense because he believes that gives him the best chance of winning with this group. If he thought he could win more games by getting into rock fights, that's what he would do. It has always been about winning the game at hand with him, and I won't fault him for that.

He said as much during the pregame on the radio. He said that they're running more plays than ever(?) to create open looks and relying on the three, ... which is probably why Buddy is getting lots of run.