Buffalo Bills 2023 Thread

[JeremyCuse]

I've been saying it since the moment KC scored to win that playoff game - the Bills window to win a Super Bowl closed when their genius defensive coordinator couldn't stop KC with 13 seconds left. That was their best chance to win a Super Bowl. This roster is not championship caliber. It's not even AFC Championship Game caliber. The offensive line is atrocious, they still do not have a WR2, they are still completely incapable of stopping the run and they have a QB who is not a smart football player and seems to have regressed.

Unfortunately, there are too many other teams in the AFC that are at or above the Bills' level: KC, Miami, Cincinnati, Jacksonville, Baltimore, Los Angeles and maybe even the Browns at this point. Hell, we've lost two games to the Zach Wilson-led Jets in the last two years. Brutal.

Hard to argue with any of this. Bills have to many holes that need to be filled at this point. Right Tackle, WR2, and a young safety, not mention Morse is probably at the end so Center as well. I think they have the future MLB on the roster in the 3rd rounder this year but for this year it's gonna be an issue to, Bernard isn't the answer. They really need an upgrade at tackle and at that second WR spot desperately.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

I've been saying it since the moment KC scored to win that playoff game - the Bills window to win a Super Bowl closed when their genius defensive coordinator couldn't stop KC with 13 seconds left. That was their best chance to win a Super Bowl. This roster is not championship caliber. It's not even AFC Championship Game caliber. The offensive line is atrocious, they still do not have a WR2, they are still completely incapable of stopping the run and they have a QB who is not a smart football player and seems to have regressed.

Unfortunately, there are too many other teams in the AFC that are at or above the Bills' level: KC, Miami, Cincinnati, Jacksonville, Baltimore, Los Angeles and maybe even the Browns at this point. Hell, we've lost two games to the Zach Wilson-led Jets in the last two years. Brutal.

Holy over-reaction. Maybe they are toast . But it’s a bit early to call it.

 

[syrBossHogg]

You do? You always concede 3 points to a terrible Qb who is just as likely to take a sack or turn it over as do anything positive ? This isn’t Patrick mahommes or burrow who you are afraid of giving the extra down to regardless of distance .

Absolutely cannot risk giving up a big play or take a defensive penalty on 3rd down

 

[syrBossHogg]

I’m absolutely frustrated and think it might be time to question the team’s decision makers, but the NFL is still a week to week league. Can’t overreact THAT much every week. Its kinda funny how people say 2021 was our best shot, when during that regular season nobody thought they would get hot in the playoffs especially after the Jags/Colts/Pats losses

 

[ForCuseSake]

Bills D still gets after the QB way better than most teams (and that's without Von Miller) so I wouldn't count them out.

Ken Dorsey needs to focus more on getting the ball out of Josh's hands and limiting his freelancing. He's not a good OC, IMO.

 

[shandeezy7]

Holy over-reaction. Maybe they are toast . But it’s a bit early to call it.

I don't think it is. The roster did not improve from a team that got easily dismissed out of the playoffs by the Bengals last year and would not have even made it out of the first round if Tua was healthy, almost losing to a Dolphins team led by Skylar Thompson. I'm not saying we're gonna be playing for a top 10 pick, but the dreams of this team even making an AFCCG with the roster as currently constructed are misguided, IMO. Subpar to awful offensive line play paired with a turnover prone QB is not a recipe for success.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

I don't think it is. The roster did not improve from a team that got easily dismissed out of the playoffs by the Bengals last year and would not have even made it out of the first round if Tua was healthy, almost losing to a Dolphins team led by Skylar Thompson. I'm not saying we're gonna be playing for a top 10 pick, but the dreams of this team even making an AFCCG with the roster as currently constructed are misguided, IMO. Subpar to awful offensive line play paired with a turnover prone QB is not a recipe for success.

Are the bengals toast ? They got crushed by the browns and Joe Montana Jr threw for <100 yards and as I recall the Bengals SHOULD have lost in the playoffs to a Baltimore team without Lamar Jackson if not for a 14 pt play.

 

[shandeezy7]

Are the bengals toast ? They got crushed by the browns and Joe Montana Jr threw for <100 yards and as I recall the Bengals SHOULD have lost in the playoffs to a Baltimore team without Lamar Jackson if not for a 14 pt play.

Maybe they are, but at least they have a roster that has made it to two AFC Championship Games and a Super Bowl the last two years. The Bills have never gotten out of the divisional round and the roster has gotten worse or, at best, has not improved.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I don't think it is. The roster did not improve from a team that got easily dismissed out of the playoffs by the Bengals last year and would not have even made it out of the first round if Tua was healthy, almost losing to a Dolphins team led by Skylar Thompson. I'm not saying we're gonna be playing for a top 10 pick, but the dreams of this team even making an AFCCG with the roster as currently constructed are misguided, IMO. Subpar to awful offensive line play paired with a turnover prone QB is not a recipe for success.

If Josh doesn't clean up his act I would tend to agree with you. Understanding what the last 9-10 games looked like last year I am not so sure he will but it's certainly a possibility. The defense will usually be OK. At the end of the day, they gave up 16 points in regulation off of 4 (3 really the first Int wasn't a huge deal) offensive turnovers and lost on a punt return.

What's wrong with taking care of the ball, running a bit more and take what it is there for 4 quarters. Quit trying to play hero ball. They drafted kincaid for a reason, take the low hanging fruit every time. At least 90% of the time.

It's maddening really and the fact that it continues to happen all the time its quite frankly ridiculous and land in Josh Allen's lap. Yeah Dorsey shares the blame but my god. Quit just chucking the ball all over

 

[NineOneSeven]

WGR550 is a good listen in case anyone is interested.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

And Josh will clean things up SHORT TERM but after a game or two he usually goes back to old habits. Dorsey has to save him at some point when he goes into hyper spaz mode, I mean call 3 straight runs or something. I mean you can see it plain as day when he gets rattled, it's like a manic episode. Slow it down, hand the damn ball off for a few series because everybody knew he was rattled last night in the 2nd half. He isn't some type of super hero. take the short passes etc

 

[shandeezy7]

If Josh doesn't clean up his act I would tend to agree with you. Understanding what the last 9-10 games looked like last year I am not so sure he will but it's certainly a possibility. The defense will usually be OK. At the end of the day, they gave up 16 points in regulation off of 4 (3 really the first Int wasn't a huge deal) offensive turnovers and lost on a punt return.

What's wrong with taking care of the ball, running a bit more and take what it is there for 4 quarters. Quit trying to play hero ball. They drafted kincaid for a reason, take the low hanging fruit every time. At least 90% of the time.

It's maddening really and the fact that it continues to happen all the time its quite frankly ridiculous and land in Josh Allen's lap. Yeah Dorsey shares the blame but my god. Quit just chucking the ball all over

Yeah as others have said, literally all we had to do up 13-3 midway through the third was run the clock and protect the football, but hero ball Josh had other plans.

 

[JeremyCuse]

If Josh doesn't clean up his act I would tend to agree with you. Understanding what the last 9-10 games looked like last year I am not so sure he will but it's certainly a possibility. The defense will usually be OK. At the end of the day, they gave up 16 points in regulation off of 4 (3 really the first Int wasn't a huge deal) offensive turnovers and lost on a punt return.

What's wrong with taking care of the ball, running a bit more and take what it is there for 4 quarters. Quit trying to play hero ball. They drafted kincaid for a reason, take the low hanging fruit every time. At least 90% of the time.

It's maddening really and the fact that it continues to happen all the time its quite frankly ridiculous and land in Josh Allen's lap. Yeah Dorsey shares the blame but my god. Quit just chucking the ball all over

That's really the issue, Buffalo moved the ball by dinkign and dunking and then like someone said it was almost like a switch flipped and Allen/Dorsey suddenly had to take a deep shot. One int is fine it happens but the two deep ones can't happen and that fumble was ludicrous. Spencer Brown was bad yet again and no WR outside of Diggs getting open is a killer but Josh has to be better, the blame like 75% on him adn 25% to Dorsey and everyone else.

Cap space is a major issue but Buffalo has to find a Wr 2, Gabe Davis was invisible and Shakier barely played.

 

[Cowtown]

If Josh doesn't clean up his act I would tend to agree with you. Understanding what the last 9-10 games looked like last year I am not so sure he will but it's certainly a possibility. The defense will usually be OK. At the end of the day, they gave up 16 points in regulation off of 4 (3 really the first Int wasn't a huge deal) offensive turnovers and lost on a punt return.

What's wrong with taking care of the ball, running a bit more and take what it is there for 4 quarters. Quit trying to play hero ball. They drafted kincaid for a reason, take the low hanging fruit every time. At least 90% of the time.

It's maddening really and the fact that it continues to happen all the time its quite frankly ridiculous and land in Josh Allen's lap. Yeah Dorsey shares the blame but my god. Quit just chucking the ball all over

At the end of all the points made for and against, I think the "hero ball" comment is the single most relevant. Allen is an emotional guy and gets too excited. Sometimes it wins, other times not. I don't think he becomes a top 5 for a few more years, likely not until after he's 30 or so. It's a QB driven league, and all the rest of the effects from the OL, 2nd WR, OC issues etc are all contingent upon Allen's play. Those other problems are what come with paying a guy $45 M in a salary cap league. He has to play better, smarter, and more often. Period.

edit: I was writing this when JeremyCuse made his post right before , lol!

 

[IthacaBarrel]

That's really the issue, Buffalo moved the ball by dinkign and dunking and then like someone said it was almost like a switch flipped and Allen/Dorsey suddenly had to take a deep shot. One int is fine it happens but the two deep ones can't happen and that fumble was ludicrous. Spencer Brown was bad yet again and no WR outside of Diggs getting open is a killer but Josh has to be better, the blame like 75% on him adn 25% to Dorsey and everyone else.

Cap space is a major issue but Buffalo has to find a Wr 2, Gabe Davis was invisible and Shakier barely played.

It's almost that after a half of dinking and dunking and running the ball just enough they decide they need to take deep shots with Diggs and at times Davis, just keep moving the ball. Dorsey and Josh almost have an alarm that goes off that they need to start taking shots to Diggs regardless of situation. You weren't in a damn shootout last night but lets try for youtube highlights and not a 19-13 win. Newsflash you ain't scoring a ton of points on the Jets. As a fan it's just maddening to watch but Josh has to cut the turnovers down someway somehow.

Spencer Brown stinks too

I think with Rodgers Jets would have won by 17

 

[NineOneSeven]

And Josh will clean things up SHORT TERM but after a game or two he usually goes back to old habits. Dorsey has to save him at some point when he goes into hyper spaz mode, I mean call 3 straight runs or something. I mean you can see it plain as day when he gets rattled, it's like a manic episode. Slow it down, hand the damn ball off for a few series because everybody knew he was rattled last night in the 2nd half. He isn't some type of super hero. take the short passes etc

I’ve never seen anything like it to be honest. You know what’s about to happen. That’s how our losses (and we’ve had less of them than most teams) usually go. I mean last night I literally said I’m nervous he’s going to fumble the ball. Next snap, fumble! It’s astonishing.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I’ve never seen anything like it to be honest. You know what’s about to happen. That’s how our losses (and we’ve had less of them than most teams) usually go. I mean last night I literally said I’m nervous he’s going to fumble the ball. Next snap, fumble! It’s astonishing.

I couldn't agree more, you can see it from a mile away, like the Houston playoff game from 2019 you could see the meltdown right before your eyes. I think Dorsey as a former QB can't help himself sometimes either with the play calling.

The fumble was the most predictable outcome ever. When you see the look in Josh's eyes it's time to start handing the ball off because 3 and out might be the worst outcome but you know what's going to happen if you don't. The Jets really do get him rattled.

It's like waiting for the other shoe to drop and it usually does.

 

[Cusefan0307]

And Josh will clean things up SHORT TERM but after a game or two he usually goes back to old habits. Dorsey has to save him at some point when he goes into hyper spaz mode, I mean call 3 straight runs or something. I mean you can see it plain as day when he gets rattled, it's like a manic episode. Slow it down, hand the damn ball off for a few series because everybody knew he was rattled last night in the 2nd half. He isn't some type of super hero. take the short passes etc

I said this in the NFL thread, but Allen has 22 turnovers in his last 13 games. He's operated this way since they beat KC last year just before Halloween.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I said this in the NFL thread, but Allen has 22 turnovers in his last 13 games. He's operated this way since they beat KC last year just before Halloween.

Yep that was the beginning of the slump so to speak. And most people know or can accept that the way Josh plays he's going to have a few more fumbles/ INT's than a lot of really good Qb's out there but this has gotten ridiculous. Have to scale him back, he just gets carried away and most times it doesn't end well

 

[JeremyCuse]

I couldn't agree more, you can see it from a mile away, like the Houston playoff game from 2019 you could see the meltdown right before your eyes. I think Dorsey as a former QB can't help himself sometimes either with the play calling.

The fumble was the most predictable outcome ever. When you see the look in Josh's eyes it's time to start handing the ball off because 3 and out might be the worst outcome but you know what's going to happen if you don't. The Jets really do get him rattled.

It's like waiting for the other shoe to drop and it usually does.

Buffalo really needs an old steady hand at OC like a Norv Turner type who can reel Josh back in when he gets on tilt and slow things back down and get him focused. Dorsey either doesn't see it or gets caught up in the same madness and they start playing off each other. Bottom line is he's turning it over way to much full stop. He has to reel it in or Buffalo has get a different staff in because clearly Allen is going nowhere.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

It’s stuff like this. Didn’t they draft Kincaid for situations just like this. It’s as if in the 2nd half the plan was to just force it to Diggs as if he needs targets or else! as many have said a simple run call to prevent josh from doing further damage or you punt and get the Jets on the their 10-15.

https://x.com/nfl_dougfarrar/status/1701578846787739915?s=46&t=Euod5Jh3HL7NOPwrLalGXA

 

[BuffOrange]

WGR550 is a good listen in case anyone is interested.

The Morning show isn't my favorite but they bring up a great/scary point. Does JA run for the 1st down on the 1st int if there's a defender closer to him so that he can make a highlight?
The hero ball wouldn't be so bad vs KC or someone. Against Zach Wilson with the lead? What the heck man. Have some awareness. Just depressing.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

The Morning show isn't my favorite but they bring up a great/scary point. Does JA run for the 1st down on the 1st int if there's a defender closer to him so that he can make a highlight?
The hero ball wouldn't be so bad vs KC or someone. Against Zach Wilson with the lead? What the heck man. Have some awareness. Just depressing.

It's certainly food for thought. Just make the average play Josh against the really good defenses. I still think Dorsey and Allen feel obligated to throw to Diggs a certain amount regardless if he's open or not. I found it interesting that the Bills moved on from their WR coach last year as well, didn't the players buy him a new truck a couple years ago?

I mean lets face it Allen was best with Dorsey as QB coach Daboll as the OC.

 

[shandeezy7]

 

[kirbivore]

And because of that thank God for live betting. The Jets ML was free money all night.

Did get the best number but manage to get the Jets ML -136 once the Bills got stopped on 3rd and 12 in OT