Class of 2020 C Matt Haarms / Transferring from Purdue

[Day2]

I'm honestly not sure what you are even arguing about. If your position is the players get to determine what school they go to then you hit it out of the park.

My position is Cuse is looking to get more talent at center, this is clearly supported by their recent offers.

My position is we would be a better team with Haarms or equivalent talent, which is a no brainer.

I will not agree that Haarms would be behind our current centers. He might not start, but i believe, based on watching him and our current centers he would get more burn. It's not going to happen with Haarms, but hopefully another target emerges.



Why are you okay with our talent when the coaches clearly aren't?

My position is I have better things to do. If you don't get it, oh well.

 

[City of Cuse]

My position is I have better things to do. If you don't get it, oh well.

Liar, no one has better things to do right now. I could be giving one of my kids a bath, but instead I'm trying to improve the SU team.

Really would appreciate a similar level of commitment from you.

 

[Briancuse]

I'm honestly not sure what you are even arguing about. If your position is the players get to determine what school they go to then you hit it out of the park.

My position is Cuse is looking to get more talent at center, this is clearly supported by their recent offers.

My position is we would be a better team with Haarms or equivalent talent, which is a no brainer.

I will not agree that Haarms would be behind our current centers. He might not start, but i believe, based on watching him and our current centers he would get more burn. It's not going to happen with Haarms, but hopefully another target emerges.



Why are you okay with our talent when the coaches clearly aren't?

No question sidibe would start because this is his fourth year in the program but haarms would be the first sub and get the majority of the minutes. It's not rocket science there is a reason jb tried to get this kid.

 

[orangebabe]

Maybe he was scared Edwards could end up having more potential. Who knows. His top 10 list is kinda strange though.

He thinks Edwards has more potential than Isaiah Jackson at Kentucky? I find that hard to believe. Kentucky has a couple of other 5 star bigs too, and they are thought to be the fav in another 5 star 6' 9 guy.

 

[Day2]

No question sidibe would start because this is his fourth year in the program but haarms would be the first sub and get the majority of the minutes. It's not rocket science there is a reason jb tried to get this kid.

And there’s a reason why Haarms wasn’t interested in backing up Sidibe.

 

[Day2]

He played most of the season injured. He also played in the toughest conference in the nation. He still had more ppg than any of our centers and the rpg was close. There is a reason like 20 schools reached out to him including ours. If jb was that happy with our centers he wouldn't have made the offer.

He made the offer because players of Haarms’ caliber aren’t available every day.

Haarms is the better shot blocker. Sidibe does everything else better, the numbers don’t lie.

 

[Briancuse]

And there’s a reason why Haarms wasn’t interested in backing up Sidibe.

He would have played the majority of the minutes. Haarms didnt turn us down because of sidibe.

 

[Day2]

He would have played the majority of the minutes. Haarms didnt turn us down because of sidibe.

You took one step forward in the Morgan thread...and three steps back here.

 

[Briancuse]

You took one step forward in the Morgan thread...and three steps back here.

You really think our centers are better than haarms?

 

[JLine]

It is just as funny as the people saying our current 5s are all of the sudden acc stars because of a few games. Clearly SU is looking for an upgrade or trying to add talent to the position. If you are all satisfied with what cuse has, get ready for another sometimes fun to watch, but subpar season.

It is a strange take to be opposed to potential contributors.

None of what you said has ever been uttered by the handful of us that don’t think Haarms is so far ahead of what we have now, that it can’t even be debated. Which was shown to be ridiculous by the numbers, but instead the notion is that if you don’t agree about Haarms, then you must not have seen him play, like they’re the authority on player evaluations. But, exaggerations are par for the course.

I was far from opposed to adding him, and have said so plenty. Would have loved to have that duo at center. I just felt like pointing out that Sid is not going to just be tossed aside, and relegated to scrap minutes, like many here insinuate that is all he is good for. It was just ridiculous that people will throw Sid under the bus for the next shiny new object.

Posters do it with every damn kid that pops up as a possibility. They are the missing piece, and we neeeeeed them, so make it happen JB. I think opinions of Haarms were influenced greatly by the fact that he had big names lining up for him. Someone made a post not too long ago about how difficult it is to find a solid big that isn’t raw, and/or a beanpole. Something along those lines. Haarms is no doubt the top dog on the GT market, but confusing that with him being one of the top bigs in the college game just irks me.

He’s just the top need for a lot of teams. You aren’t gonna find a HS kid this late to plug a hole. Haarms has experience, defends the rim very well, has a great motor, and he moves well around the court to get in the proper spots for screens, and in the post. He gives the guards a good angle for the pass, and at the same time, he positions himself in the best spot to have a high percentage shot after receiving the ball.

Me not agreeing with the offensive prowess that I have never seen, but many apparently have, doesn’t mean I think our bigs are ACC stars, and he’s some bum. I just happen to believe that it would have been a 50/50 split in time with Sid, and they have different pros, and cons, while both being able to contribute in a meaningful way.

That’s all. If sticking up for a senior that fought through injury, and worked his ass off to become a key part of the team is strange, then call me Pee Wee Herman. Cause I’m gonna do it every time, especially when the one being drooled over is someone I’m familiar with, and see differently.

 

[Maxsumm]

I know you weren’t asking me, but... I think we have literally only scratched the surface of what Sidibe can do for this team. No he’s not physical. But as the season progressed he showed immense improvement.

He’s a foul machine with bad knees and flashes of occasional offense I think they know what they have

 

[General Joe]

His top 10 has some interesting teams, diversity in playing style, regions and playing (or lack of playing) time options. Hard to discern what he is looking for in a new team.

I think his size and shot blocking coupled with his all around offensive game would have been amazing for us. If you watched a Purdue game you saw a guy that protected the rim, had a good game offensively around the rim AND had a face up jump shot similiar to a stretch4 like Lydon but in a 7ft+ body. Totally different player than Lydon obviously but the kid would've been impactful for us on both ends of the court. Even if "Good Sidibe" is now the norm, how in the heck would we not have been better with this kid???? Oh well. Best wishes to young Mr Haarms.

 

[Day2]

You really think our centers are better than haarms?

No, I think Sidibe is better if he stays out of foul trouble, as the metrics suggest.

It would have been great to add Haarms, but it was always a long shot and deep down you know that.

 

[CousCuse]

No, I think Sidibe is better if he stays out of foul trouble, as the metrics suggest.

It would have been great to add Haarms, but it was always a long shot and deep down you know that.

No haarms in trying.

 

[Briancuse]

No, I think Sidibe is better if he stays out of foul trouble, as the metrics suggest.

It would have been great to add Haarms, but it was always a long shot and deep down you know that.

Metrics are overrated. I didn't know it was a long shot but if it was it goes to show how far we have fallen.

 

[City of Cuse]

then call me Pee Wee Herman.

I know you are, but what am I?

You seem like a loyal guy, very commendable.

I've seen both guys in person, my feeling is Haarms is better at basketball than anyone in our current center mix.

I get that you guys are comparing stats based on 40, but you put Haarms in the middle of our zone he gets more rebounds than he does at Purdue immediately. There goes one stat guys are focused on for some reason. If you don't see offensively he is more gifted than our current lineup of centers then we just won't agree and that is fine. I'm not a scout, maybe you are, but I've stated my opinion, I've been very wrong before. Hopefully the season happens so we can dig this up and see who is right!

Loyalty is great unless it hurts the team. Obviously it's a moot point now because Haarms is going elsewhere. I'm all for finding better talent when available as long as it helps the team. Hopefully Cuse finds better talent at a couple spots.

Happy Easter.

 

[JLine]

Certainly is a somewhat peculiar top 10, but I think he laid out a very well calculated list of schools. Each program brings something different to the table, with contrasting strengths, and weaknesses. Basically, it’s a really diverse list that allows him to get a sense of a substantial amount of the possible systems, coaching methods, and styles of play that are out there.

He has a school from each P5 conference. Then the best program from a mid-major conference in college basketball, that is all but guaranteed a Tournament bid, and conference championship. Also, there’s a college from basically every region of the contiguous US, which could explain a couple odd selections that you wouldn’t expect. BC represents the Northeast, and New England. Arkansas covers the Deep South. UNC-G takes care of the East Coast. Gonzaga is a twofer, with the Northwest, and West Coast, since there’s no Cali school, while Zona is considered Southwest. I guess Minny is Midwest, though I personally think it’s a bit outside of that real midwestern way of life, which he already experienced, so makes sense to go with the Upper Midwest.

Kid is giving himself a vast array of options. It will allow him to figure out the way of life that he prefers. Of course it’s doubtful that he visits all 10 of them, but he will still be provided with all the information necessary to get a good feel for what his experience will be like at each school. Smart kid.

I think Gonzaga should have a great shot. He is the type of player that they typically look for, and Few has a great track record developing those kids. I’m sure UK will be in the mix, and it really is another good fit for both sides. Texas Tech could be one to look out for, especially if he wants to showcase his D, but I think he really wants a larger role on offense than he’s had, and doesn’t believe he has been utilized properly on that end. I guess Zona has a shot, but I’d stay away if I were him. As I don’t think Miller provides much of anything to benefit his game, and playing in the PAC-12 doesn’t give him the exposure he’s probably looking for. The Zags aren’t P5, and they’re buried out west too, but they play so many marquee games every year, and are an absolute lock for the tourney, so that would be my choice if I were him.

 

[JLine]

Metrics are overrated. I didn't know it was a long shot but if it was it goes to show how far we have fallen.

Hah, how convenient. I bet if they were in his favor, then you would surely be using them while arguing his worth. Guaranteed. How far we fallen? Truly a remarkably simpleminded thing to say, all because we couldn’t snag a kid that was never even going to give us a 2nd look.

 

[FrancoPizza]

we don't develop bigs, in all fairness we lost that with Bernie Fine

The only thing we lost with fine is someone to hold a clipboard.

 

[samspann1]

Admittedly, I did not read through this entire thread, but it seems like the general takeaway is that Haarms eliminated us from contention because he did not want to sit behind Sidibe.

So, why does he still have UK on his list, when he would sit behind Richards (First Team All-SEC) and possibly Isaiah Jackson (remember him?)?

 

[721Comstock]

Admittedly, I did not read through this entire thread, but it seems like the general takeaway is that Haarms eliminated us from contention because he did not want to sit behind Sidibe.

So, why does he still have UK on his list, when he would sit behind Richards (First Team All-SEC) and possibly Isaiah Jackson (remember him?)?

He’s waiting to see if a bag gets delivered?

 

[Cusesky8214]

Admittedly, I did not read through this entire thread, but it seems like the general takeaway is that Haarms eliminated us from contention because he did not want to sit behind Sidibe.

So, why does he still have UK on his list, when he would sit behind Richards (First Team All-SEC) and possibly Isaiah Jackson (remember him?)?

Sidibe has scared away every potential 5 we have been recruiting it seems. Powerhouse baby! You would think we are stacked at the 5. (I mean obviously our coaches havent been pursuing any other options at the 5 the past few weeks because they are comfortable with what we have currently)

 

[Col. Bleep]

An aside to this...it's disheartening to see Arizona involved in almost every high profile transfer's decision making.

College basketball is a joke as long as Sean Miller has a job.

 

[JLine]

I know you are, but what am I?

You seem like a loyal guy, very commendable.

I've seen both guys in person, my feeling is Haarms is better at basketball than anyone in our current center mix.

I get that you guys are comparing stats based on 40, but you put Haarms in the middle of our zone he gets more rebounds than he does at Purdue immediately. There goes one stat guys are focused on for some reason. If you don't see offensively he is more gifted than our current lineup of centers then we just won't agree and that is fine. I'm not a scout, maybe you are, but I've stated my opinion, I've been very wrong before. Hopefully the season happens so we can dig this up and see who is right!

Loyalty is great unless it hurts the team. Obviously it's a moot point now because Haarms is going elsewhere. I'm all for finding better talent when available as long as it helps the team. Hopefully Cuse finds better talent at a couple spots.

Happy Easter.

I have no issue with posters believing that Haarms is the better player offensively, defensively, or at every aspect of basketball imaginable. Nor do I have any problem with posts like these. It’s the nonsense that was being spewed by many around here, that it isn’t even up for debate, and then finishing opinions off with the popular line...”that’s just a fact!”

Why, no, no it’s not. Maybe if it was something like comparing Jordan to Jimmer, then by all means, call it a fact. It still isn’t, but we really know that it is. That’s legitimately how people feel about this comparison. That it’s such a no brainer, no contest, and such a complete mismatch, that we can call it factual. Unreal to me. I can only figure that some folks made up their minds on Sid long ago, and he’s still that gimpy, uninspired, and all around struggling big man to them. Must see his improvements as a fluke, or something. Hell if I know.

Moqui posts some actual facts, and those are quickly dismissed as irrelevant, or misleading. Not that I put all my faith into stats either, but they do have some relevance, and especially those that he posted. Oh, but if Haarms played 40, then he’d have 10 boards a game! Which is not how it works, but no point even trying to explain how ridiculous it is.

Anyway, I haven’t once said that Sid is the better player, nor that I didn’t want Haarms. Just that I believe Sid is better at certain aspects, and Haarms at others, but really I found a lot of what was being said to be rather exaggerated, and/or shortsighted. Like Brian’s favorite way to judge a player, and just go by the schools offering him. Instead of looking at the big picture, and realizing that his worth to these schools is largely effected by how rare it is to find an experienced, worthwhile kid for the upcoming season, that will be eligible, and can contribute right away at the toughest position to come in, and do so. All while not impacting recruiting, or the amount of scholarships available for future years.

I’d be willing to bet that if he was still the player he is now, but was transferring with three years of eligibility left, that many of these schools wouldn’t even think twice about pursuing him. And just because JB wants to add another 5, it doesn’t mean that he thinks they are all better than Sid, or that we need someone better than him. I mean, he very well may think that, but he’s made his thoughts on the potential that Sid has as well. He likes to have two capable centers to rotate, so this is more about Jesse, and JBA, while trying to avoid having to put MD there, yet again.

That’s why I truly believe it would have been a split at the 5, give or take a couple minutes. He’s trying to win, and we are at our best when we have at least a duo, like Forth/McNeil, Rak/Keita, AO/Rick, or a trio like the infamous Fab Melo year, with young Rak/Keita combining to back him up.

Some of our most disappointing seasons had someone playing 30, or more minutes at the 5. Like 06-07, and 07-08. Those were a blast with poor Watkins basically alone at the 5 in 06-07, and the seniors going out like that. Not even gonna say anything else about that debacle of a season the year after. As far as I’m concerned, it never happened.

While most of our best years had no one playing more than 25 MPG at the 5. Like the aforementioned 2011-2012 season when we only lost 3 games. And the FF a year later with the trio of Rak/Keira/Coleman. Season after that, same kids, and a 3 seed. Then 2014-2015 comes along, when Rak had to play 34 MPG, and we lose 13 games. Not that Rak didn’t have a great year, but it’s a lot to ask of a big to play that many minutes.

We know JB has no issue with playing his guys 30, or more minutes a game. But, that isn’t the case with the 5 spot. The center is the QB of the zone, and responsible for communicating. JB needs at least two guys he can trust down there, so when a mistake is made, he can get right out, and into the seat of doom. With Marek being the only upperclassmen forward that we have, and really needing him to help facilitate the offense without Eli, I assume he’s trying everything he can to avoid him being our best option to backup the 5.

If that’s how it plays out then he has to decide what is more important. Putting the best backup option at the 5, but lose a key forward, and be forced to play Bras, or Woody in his place. Or keep Marek where he belongs, and hope Jesse, or JBA are serviceable. I’m not sure he will trust any of those four quite yet.

It’s all moot if AG becomes eligible, as Marek can move to the 5, if necessary, and our talent doesn’t drop, but our size does. A grad transfer big would be the stopgap that alleviates those important concerns for the season. While Jesse, and JBA get another year of experience in the program under their belt, and ideally not the trial by fire kind.

Alright, that was a doozy to write. Time for me to move on, as I think I’ve beaten the dead horse enough by now, and Haarms became irrelevant for us yesterday. Yeah, definitely time to step aside as I can see the same nonsense being thrown up already, and only had to scroll up one post. Baffling that JB looking to add a big automatically equals Sid is not good enough, but carry on.

 

[orangeinnyc]

I have no issue with posters believing that Haarms is the better player offensively, defensively, or at every aspect of basketball imaginable. Nor do I have any problem with posts like these. It’s the nonsense that was being spewed by many around here, that it isn’t even up for debate, and then finishing opinions off with the popular line...”that’s just a fact!”

Why, no, no it’s not. Maybe if it was something like comparing Jordan to Jimmer, then by all means, call it a fact. It still isn’t, but we really know that it is. That’s legitimately how people feel about this comparison. That it’s such a no brainer, no contest, and such a complete mismatch, that we can call it factual. Unreal to me. I can only figure that some folks made up their minds on Sid long ago, and he’s still that gimpy, uninspired, and all around struggling big man to them. Must see his improvements as a fluke, or something. Hell if I know.

Moqui posts some actual facts, and those are quickly dismissed as irrelevant, or misleading. Not that I put all my faith into stats either, but they do have some relevance, and especially those that he posted. Oh, but if Haarms played 40, then he’d have 10 boards a game! Which is not how it works, but no point even trying to explain how ridiculous it is.

Anyway, I haven’t once said that Sid is the better player, nor that I didn’t want Haarms. Just that I believe Sid is better at certain aspects, and Haarms at others, but really I found a lot of what was being said to be rather exaggerated, and/or shortsighted. Like Brian’s favorite way to judge a player, and just go by the schools offering him. Instead of looking at the big picture, and realizing that his worth to these schools is largely effected by how rare it is to find an experienced, worthwhile kid for the upcoming season, that will be eligible, and can contribute right away at the toughest position to come in, and do so. All while not impacting recruiting, or the amount of scholarships available for future years.

I’d be willing to bet that if he was still the player he is now, but was transferring with three years of eligibility left, that many of these schools wouldn’t even think twice about pursuing him. And just because JB wants to add another 5, it doesn’t mean that he thinks they are all better than Sid, or that we need someone better than him. I mean, he very well may think that, but he’s made his thoughts on the potential that Sid has as well. He likes to have two capable centers to rotate, so this is more about Jesse, and JBA, while trying to avoid having to put MD there, yet again.

That’s why I truly believe it would have been a split at the 5, give or take a couple minutes. He’s trying to win, and we are at our best when we have at least a duo, like Forth/McNeil, Rak/Keita, AO/Rick, or a trio like the infamous Fab Melo year, with young Rak/Keita combining to back him up.

Some of our most disappointing seasons had someone playing 30, or more minutes at the 5. Like 06-07, and 07-08. Those were a blast with poor Watkins basically alone at the 5 in 06-07, and the seniors going out like that. Not even gonna say anything else about that debacle of a season the year after. As far as I’m concerned, it never happened.

While most of our best years had no one playing more than 25 MPG at the 5. Like the aforementioned 2011-2012 season when we only lost 3 games. And the FF a year later with the trio of Rak/Keira/Coleman. Season after that, same kids, and a 3 seed. Then 2014-2015 comes along, when Rak had to play 34 MPG, and we lose 13 games. Not that Rak didn’t have a great year, but it’s a lot to ask of a big to play that many minutes.

We know JB has no issue with playing his guys 30, or more minutes a game. But, that isn’t the case with the 5 spot. The center is the QB of the zone, and responsible for communicating. JB needs at least two guys he can trust down there, so when a mistake is made, he can get right out, and into the seat of doom. With Marek being the only upperclassmen forward that we have, and really needing him to help facilitate the offense without Eli, I assume he’s trying everything he can to avoid him being our best option to backup the 5.

If that’s how it plays out then he has to decide what is more important. Putting the best backup option at the 5, but lose a key forward, and be forced to play Bras, or Woody in his place. Or keep Marek where he belongs, and hope Jesse, or JBA are serviceable. I’m not sure he will trust any of those four quite yet.

It’s all moot if AG becomes eligible, as Marek can move to the 5, if necessary, and our talent doesn’t drop, but our size does. A grad transfer big would be the stopgap that alleviates those important concerns for the season. While Jesse, and JBA get another year of experience in the program under their belt, and ideally not the trial by fire kind.

Alright, that was a doozy to write. Time for me to move on, as I think I’ve beaten the dead horse enough by now, and Haarms became irrelevant for us yesterday. Yeah, definitely time to step aside as I can see the same nonsense being thrown up already, and only had to scroll up one post. Baffling that JB looking to add a big automatically equals Sid is not good enough, but carry on.

Great post!