Carleton Thoughts

[SUFan44]

4th or 5th in the ACC is Top 10-15 in the country this year, with Duke/UNC/Louisville/Virginia. That's a pretty damn good ceiling, and one with a shot at a run at the Final Four (as usual).

 

[reedny]

4th or 5th in the ACC is Top 10-15 in the country this year, with Duke/UNC/Louisville/Virginia. That's a pretty damn good ceiling, and one with a shot at a run at the Final Four (as usual).

This year's team has a lot of work to do (youth/inexperience) but I think the ceiling is actually higher than last year.

 

[SUFan44]

This year's team has a lot of work to do (youth/inexperience) but I think the ceiling is actually higher than last year.

Don't disagree at all. Only spot I would disagree with is C. Need Rakeem to stay out of foul trouble. Won't be an easy task. But I actually thought Obokonoh moved well out there against Carleton, better than I expected. He has a much higher ceiling than Baye. If he can figure out the slides of the zone (not easy to replicate because Baye was so good at it) we can get away with him playing 2-3 minutes per half.

 

[reedny]

Don't disagree at all. Only spot I would disagree with is C. Need Rakeem to stay out of foul trouble. Won't be an easy task. But I actually thought Obokonoh moved well out there against Carleton, better than I expected. He has a much higher ceiling than Baye. If he can figure out the slides of the zone (not easy to replicate because Baye was so good at it) we can get away with him playing 2-3 minutes per half.

Oh absolutely agree on Rak -- we're super thin at C. McCullough can move over but then there's a hole in the middle at both ends. Offensively, CM's back-to-the-basket game is NRFPT. And defensively, both he and Obokoh are liabilities (Obokoh's got serious springs and timing waiting to be unlocked in the zone). Development with these two, esp. on defense. is a huge factor for us as we get into conference play.

 

[orangejunkie]

Nice to hear something positive posted about Obokoh and his potential. I have said all along that I think he has a higher ceiling than Keita. Tough to evaluate a player after one game…Lots of criticism on Roberson but hopefully he will show steady improvement.

 

[SBU72]

There is a decent chance that will be the case, at least this season, or the early part of it. However, that is not a knock on BJ at all. The kid probably has a higher ceiling than many have realized, and likely will be an Orange favorite before all is said and done. The question for me is when that will take place. #BJFTW

I don't think the kid has shown anything to point that he'll be a fan favorite over the next 2 years. If he can't get on the court this year, his chances will be greatly diminished. He has to out preform people he is behind plus those coming in. And from the exhibitions game, he is behind Buss and Jbininji on the bench right now.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

I think Roberson will perform MUCH better in games against D1 / US teams. Carleton's (a) experience as a unit allows them to play "above their pay grade" and (b) unusual defense encouraged some long jumpers, several by Roberson. I suspect against a more conventional D he'll shine. He does appear to be a "binary event": if something isn't quite right for him on the floor (v. Carelton it was scoring opportunities), it stymies the rest of his game. He should always be one of the better rebounders on the floor and we didn't really see that v. Carleton.

Bear in mind also that several of our guys got to play against Carleton last year and were perhaps more prepared for their style - Roberson was of course not yet cleared and thus naive to the Carleton antigens.

I guess we'll see, and I certainly hope you are right.

 

[SWC75]

Nice thread. Only reservation has already been pointed out: it's only one game. We may be over-rating Roberson and under-valuing someone else. I like a team that ahs a classic line-up of a center who is a center, a power forward who is a power forward, etc. That way everything fits together. If you don't have that it's like a jigsaw puzzle without all the pieces. we could lose games because of the resulting holes. That said, I see no reason why the same players have to perform the same function on both ends if they aren't suited to do so. As long as somebody's getting each job done.

I do think we have more offensive options than we've had in a while and that's good. But we may have more defensive liabilities as well, and that's bad. The depth at center and point guard, with players playing out of position to fill those roles, makes me very nervous.

I expected more form Tyler Roberson, now in his second year, than I saw, (again, it was one game). He looked like the same nervous, tentative player he was last year. I hoped being given a starting position and more rope by JB would help him get over that. I hope to see evidence of it as we go along. It would be interesting to hear the view of those Roberson fans who were saying a year ago that he'd be a big part of last year's team. What gives with this guy?

And I'm still hoping to see a lot more form BJ Johnson, who i think has star potential but sometimes looks like he's all arms and legs.

 

[reedny]

I don't think the kid has shown anything to point that he'll be a fan favorite over the next 2 years. If he can't get on the court this year, his chances will be greatly diminished. He has to out preform people he is behind plus those coming in. And from the exhibitions game, he is behind Buss and Jbininji on the bench right now.

You might not think there's much to get excited about with BJ at this point (he's really thin and needs time). But there's someone else you should be excited about --Kaleb Joseph:

1- KJ had a team-high 19 points;
2- he was 7-9 from the floor;
3- he had 4 assists;
4- he had only one TO and 1 foul;
4- he did all this in 26 minutes;
5- in his very first college game;
6- against a pretty seasoned opponent.

Just for a rough comparison (this was an exhibition, not a regular season game), but these stats are better than either of the last two PG's that have played for SU, both of whom were drafted in the first round and are now playing in the NBA. TE scored 1 point in his first game (Cornell) last year. He went 0 for 6 in 28 minutes. The year before, MCW -- in his second year -- scored 17 points (7/15) in 32 minutes. In HIS first (regular season) game as a frosh, he played 18 minutes and scored 4 points on 2/6 shooting.

Looking back ... I can't help but think that KJ looks like Pearl out there in several respects: body style, handle (crossover and glue-like control), court vision and contribution (knowing and being able to score and distribute). Even his shot, with the body leaning forward, looks like Pearl.

It's one game and it's an exhibition -- not the actual first regular season game. I'm sure there will be growing pains, bad nights shooting, etc.. The kid's a long ways from 'Cuse stardom. But I'm giddy over his upside. BJ ... we can talk about another time.

 

[MSOrange]

You might not think there's much to get excited about with BJ at this point (he's really thing and needs time). But there's someone else you might get excited about. How about Kaleb Joseph:

1- he had a team-high 19 points;
2- he was 7-9 from the floor;
3- he had 4 assists;
4- he had only one TO and 1 foul;
4- he did all this in 26 minutes;
5- in his very first college game;
6- against a pretty seasoned opponent.

Just for comparison, these stats are better than either of the last two PG's that have played for SU, both drafted in the first round and playing in the NBA. TE scored 1 point in his first game (Cornell) last year. He went 0 for 6 in 28 minutes. The year before, MCW -- in his second year -- scored 17 points (7/15) in 32 minutes. In HIS first freshman game, he played 18 minutes and scored 4 points on 2/6 shooting.

Looking back ... the kid looks like Pearl out there in several respects: body style, handle (crossover and glue-like control), court control (combination of scoring and distributing). Even his shot, with his body leaning forward, looks like Pearl.

It's one game. I'm sure there will be growing pains, bad nights shooting, etc.. The kid's a long ways from 'Cuse stardom. But I'm giddy over this kid's upside.

He was talking about BJ I think - not Joseph,

 

[reedny]

He was talking about BJ I think - not Joseph,

I know.. i said that (I think lol).

 

[MSOrange]

I know.. i said that (I think lol).

You did - reading comprehension is difficult! That's what I get for multi-tasking!

 

[SBU72]

Looking back ... I can't help but think that KJ looks like Pearl out there in several respects: body style, handle (crossover and glue-like control), court vision and contribution (knowing and being able to score and distribute). Even his shot, with the body leaning forward, looks like Pearl.

It's one game. I'm sure there will be growing pains, bad nights shooting, etc.. The kid's a long ways from 'Cuse stardom. But I'm giddy over his upside. BJ ... we can talk about another time.

Speaking of look a likes, it struck me several times while watching the game on TV, that Buss with his haircut looked a lot like Scoop Jardine, body wise and movement. Of course his shot looked way different. Nobody could look like Scoop while shooting!