Carmelo stuff

[HOFCeluck]

Lebron didn't have much talent in Clevland either...made them better. Just sayin.

 

[longislandcuse]

Lebron didn't have much talent in Clevland either...made them better. Just sayin.

Who did they play? Melo would take this injury decimated team past alot of teams in the East...but not Miami.

 

[longislandcuse]

Also Cleveland Lebron didnt have to play the Spurs and Lakers to get far in the playoffs (you know, the two teams who dominated those years).

 

[Knicks411]

Breen is def a Melo hater.

 

[longislandcuse]

Breen is def a Melo hater.

Its annoying. I mean Carmelo does things that absolutely open himself up for criticism but Breen is over the top, every game. I dont even want to watch his broadcasts anymore. Its becoming an issue because alot of Knick fans I talk to feel the same way. He's got some kind of vendetta, its weird.

 

[Knicks411]

Who did they play? Melo would take this injury decimated team past alot of teams in the East...but not Miami.

That is (probably) true. But do you think this Knicks team is better than the Cleveland teams of 09 and 10? I don't. But yes, drawing what is probably the best team in the league in round 1 is usually going to result in a short playoff trip.

But I would say the point of Lebron making players better and Melo not as much is a good one. Mo Williams was an all star when he played with Lebron. Mo Williams! But Melo is not the Knicks biggest problem. (He probably was in Jan and Feb, but not now. He ended the season on a tear. Hasn't played quite as well in the playoffs, but the competition is just a little better). But fairly or not, he's going to get the criticism when they lose, just like he was getting all the love when they went on the tear they did.

 

[br801]

Colin Cowherd and Mike Breen are officially the biggest Melo haters out there. I had to turn those two clowns off yesterday driving to work. Breen constantly rips on Melo, if you listen to Knicks broadcasts you know what im saying. Cowherd made so many stupid points it made my brain hurt. First off he says Melo should be traded because Amare is untradeable and Melo went on record saying he "cant play through a pg". Cowherd says to win in the NBA, you must play through a pg....really? PG's are important and I think Melo will play fine with Lin next year but I think the Finals are going to be Heat vs Lakers. Neither team runs through a pg. Lakers are iso Kobe and post up Bynum while Heat are iso Wade, iso Lebron. So Cowherd's idiotic point is shredded. Secondly he says Melo needs to make these Knicks better.....Ok, who the f&*% does he want Melo to "make better", I guess he wants Melo to create shots for them? Who is he passing it to, to make better? Jeremy Lin? Hes not playing. Shumpert? Hes not playing. Amare? Hes injured and is now not playing. Tyson? Hes been sick with the flu. Baron? Hes hurt. Bibby? Hes old. Novak? Has trouble getting a shot off against Miami. JR? Wildy inconsisten. Landry? Cant hit the backboard. Jeffries? Hahahahaa. So Colin...how is Melo to blame? The Knicks are a disaster but dont go blaming Melo and inviting Melo-hater Breen on your show to be the contrarian sports analyst who takes the anti-Melo position to garner ratings and controversy. Clown.

All of the points you make are valid. But you know what Cowherd or any of the similar sports talk gasbags say when they get a reaction like yours? "Mission accomplished."

 

[longislandcuse]

All of the points you make are valid. But you know what Cowherd or any of the similar sports talk gasbags say when they get a reaction like yours? "Mission accomplished."

Yea, you're right. Thats obviously what hes going for since my head was about to explode listening to him and Breen.

 

[MikeSU02]

But I would say the point of Lebron making players better and Melo not as much is a good one. Mo Williams was an all star when he played with Lebron. Mo Williams! .

Mo Williams stats didn't change much outside of his three point percentage when he went to Cleveland. He was basically the same player just getting a few more open looks (and his ppg didn't change much at his peak: 17.3, 17.2 (both with Mil), 17.8 (all star w/ Cle), 15.8 (Cle).

I don't think it's as much LeBron making his teammates better. I think he extract as much production as possible from them by giving them open looks, passes in the right places, and picking up the slack of getting assists and rebounds.

To be fair, at least he isn't Kobe and screaming at them each time they make a mistake to make them perform better.

 

[Knicks411]

Mo Williams stats didn't change much outside of his three point percentage when he went to Cleveland. He was basically the same player just getting a few more open looks (and his ppg didn't change much at his peak: 17.3, 17.2 (both with Mil), 17.8 (all star w/ Cle), 15.8 (Cle).

I don't think it's as much LeBron making his teammates better. I think he extract as much production as possible from them by giving them open looks, passes in the right places, and picking up the slack of getting assists and rebounds.

Maybe it's semantics, but that is pretty much what I mean by making them better players, especially getting them the open looks and giving them the ball in the right spot. So if you want to say that is making players look better than they actually are or whatever, I don't dispute that.

In the case of Mo Williams, his career true shooting % is 53.8%. His 2 best years were, shockingly, in Cleveland with Lebron. (58.8% in 2009 and 58% the next year). His next best career number was 56%, and other thna that, he's never been better than 53%. So he had his 2 best shooting years playing alongside Lebron. I don't think that is a coincidence.

 

[MikeSU02]

Maybe it's semantics, but that is pretty much what I mean by making them better players, especially getting them the open looks and giving them the ball in the right spot. So if you want to say that is making players look better than they actually are or whatever, I don't dispute that.

In the case of Mo Williams, his career true shooting % is 53.8%. His 2 best years were, shockingly, in Cleveland with Lebron. (58.8% in 2009 and 58% the next year). His next best career number was 56%, and other thna that, he's never been better than 53%. So he had his 2 best shooting years playing alongside Lebron. I don't think that is a coincidence.

Fair point. And I agree.

The basic conclusion that we agree on is that, all things being equal, if the same players were put onto a team with LeBron versus one with a competent replacement, they will perform much better with LeBron than without.

One of LeBron's many good attributes.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

I cant believe the Melo/Lebron debate plunges forward. Only on syracusefan.com... hilarious!

 

[PoppyHart]

It's like deja vu all over again.

 

[br801]

I cant believe the Melo/Lebron debate plunges forward. Only on syracusefan.com... hilarious!

Eventually every thread turns into a Melo/LeBron debate now. Almost makes me wish for one of those "are we elite" or "JB is a dinosaur" threads.

 

[Knicks411]

Man or Zone?

 

[Fireball Jr.]

Man or Zone?

http://tinyurl.com/7jj7jjc
http://doctorwit.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/devo.jpg

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

Even this myth that Melo is a better scorer might have to be debunked. Lebron scores more points and shoots a higher percentage from the floor. He doesn't always NEED to be a volume scorer on this Miami team, but if you turn him loose, he's the best scorer in the game, short of maybe Durant.

 

[Knicks411]

Even this myth that Melo is a better scorer might have to be debunked. Lebron scores more points and shoots a higher percentage from the floor. He doesn't always NEED to be a volume scorer on this Miami team, but if you turn him loose, he's the best scorer in the game, short of maybe Durant.

I saw this yesterday, didn't realize Lebron is third all time in points per game.

I do like the idea that Melo is a better scorer than Lebron despite scoring less often and less efficiently.

 

[44cuse]

Exactly. I think almost everyone liked him prior to that.

Yet more people seem to like Kobe more than LeBron and all he did was settle out of court.

#misplacedpriorities

44cuse

 

[DoctorBombay]

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

I saw this yesterday, didn't realize Lebron is third all time in points per game.

I do like the idea that Melo is a better scorer than Lebron despite scoring less often and less efficiently.

If Charles Barkley says it enough...it makes it true on the internets

Barkley says zone defense is the easiest to beat..."He is a moron..doesn't know basketball"
Barkley says Melo best scorer in the game.."He really understands the game"

 

[Knicks411]

Yet more people seem to like Kobe more than LeBron and all he did was settle out of court.

#misplacedpriorities

44cuse

This is really funny, and totally true. As far as I can tell, the worst you can say about Lebron is he is arrogant and lacks perspective. Not saying he's the best guy in the world, but he hasn't been accused of rape, hasn't elbowed anyone in the head, hasn't thrown punches on the court, hasn't been arrested.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

Bron is so hated, because he was so beloved. Everyone wanted him to go to their city. When he went to a team no one cares about...the worm turned. "I hate him now!!!! How dare he do what he wants to do!!"

 

[KingOtis]

There seem to be people here who delight in posting negative stuff about Carmelo. In response, let me say a few things (in no particular order).

1) All things considered, there has never been a player that has meant more to SU. Those of us who followed the team's 2003 post-season journey know that. Many of those questioning Melo seem not to have been around then.

2) No student athlete has been more generous to SU than Carmelo. Edit: no team player anywhere (including Duke, Notre Dame, UNC, USC or wherever) has ever been more generous to his school than has Melo.

3) Without Melo, there would not be a Melo Center... which is why we have recruited amazing classes of players in the past few years.

4) Of course, Lebron was always going to be the #1 draft pick in 2003. What a stupid discussion.

5) Who has won more NBA championships as of today.. Lebron or Carmelo? Last I looked, they were tied. Who won more NCAA championships?

6) Carmelo has not been surrounded by the best talent during his NBA career. Denver... don't think so. Knicks... just compare their roster to the Heat. Three current Heat players (James, Wade and Bosh) were on the 2008 US Olympic team. Probably this year, too. And they also have Shane Battier, about whom the NY Times Magazine ran a cover story, calling him the best team player and most unselfish player in the NBA. The Knicks best run of the season featured an undrafted skinny guard from Harvard, for gosh sakes.

7) I am not sure why this board seems to take such delight in "eating its own." Just a random late-night observation.

I have nothing to add. I just felt like this needed to be posted again...

 

[HOFCeluck]

I have nothing to add. I just felt like this needed to be posted again...

Jesuis Christ no one denies Carmelo's generosity or his substantial contribution to Syracuse basketball. I don't understand why these things have to prohibit an objective look at him as an NBA PLAYER.