Carmelo stuff

[realorange]

So I come back to my original point. Is there a list somewhere of which posters are well-respected and which posters aren't respected? I just want to make sure I'm in compliance with whom I can use as target practice.

In fairness, what did Skurey say that was so bad? I didn't see any personal attacks on CTO from him. If anything, KingOtis (whom I like as a poster) was much meaner calling him a "douchebag" and "black-sheep" and saying he's "nothing".

It's the old story of not what you say, but how you say it. Skurey came across as someone with an attitude who not only disagreed with CTO points, but made them look totally insignificant.
As far as well-respected, you just have to make that judgement for yourself. CTO has the greatest respect from all of us who have been on the board for any length of time. If you haven't figured out why, then you need to stick around a little while longer and read/listen more than wondering who should be respected.
Actually, why can't you/we have respect for everyone on the board. The admins will take care of those who want to go off on their own careless crusades. If you want to be respected, give respect to others.

 

[CusefanATL]

It's the old story of not what you say, but how you say it. Skurey came across as someone with an attitude who not only disagreed with CTO points, but made them look totally insignificant.
As far as well-respected, you just have to make that judgement for yourself. CTO has the greatest respect from all of us who have been on the board for any length of time. If you haven't figured out why, then you need to stick around a little while longer and read/listen more than wondering who should be respected.
Actually, why can't you/we have respect for everyone on the board. The admins will take care of those who want to go off on their own careless crusades. If you want to be respected, give respect to others.

CTO is the queen
Jake is the king
Bees is the Godfather

 

[rrlbees]

Agreed, it's all in the presentation.

Bingo. It's not what's said and if someone disagrees, it is how it is said and whether there are personal attacks or someone is being condescending etc. It's one thing to do it with a troll from another team, or some clueless kid being an idiot, it's quite another to do it when replying to another SU poster.

Time to start cleaning house.

 

[CusefanATL]

Bingo. It's not what's said and if someone disagrees, it is how it is said and whether there are personal attacks or someone is being condescending etc. It's one thing to do it with a troll from another team, or some clueless kid being an idiot, it's quite another to do it when replying to another SU poster.

Time to start cleaning house.

Leave the gun... take the cannoli

 

[br801]

It's the old story of not what you say, but how you say it. Skurey came across as someone with an attitude who not only disagreed with CTO points, but made them look totally insignificant.
As far as well-respected, you just have to make that judgement for yourself. CTO has the greatest respect from all of us who have been on the board for any length of time. If you haven't figured out why, then you need to stick around a little while longer and read/listen more than wondering who should be respected.
Actually, why can't you/we have respect for everyone on the board. The admins will take care of those who want to go off on their own careless crusades. If you want to be respected, give respect to others.

Well said. We would all do well to think about those words every time we come to the board.

 

[CPAMan]

There seem to be people here who delight in posting negative stuff about Carmelo. In response, let me say a few things (in no particular order).

1) All things considered, there has never been a player that has meant more to SU. Those of us who followed the team's 2003 post-season journey know that. Many of those questioning Melo seem not to have been around then.

2) No student athlete has been more generous to SU than Carmelo. Edit: no team player anywhere (including Duke, Notre Dame, UNC, USC or wherever) has ever been more generous to his school than has Melo.

3) Without Melo, there would not be a Melo Center... which is why we have recruited amazing classes of players in the past few years.

4) Of course, Lebron was always going to be the #1 draft pick in 2003. What a stupid discussion.

5) Who has won more NBA championships as of today.. Lebron or Carmelo? Last I looked, they were tied. Who won more NCAA championships?

6) Carmelo has not been surrounded by the best talent during his NBA career. Denver... don't think so. Knicks... just compare their roster to the Heat. Three current Heat players (James, Wade and Bosh) were on the 2008 US Olympic team. Probably this year, too. And they also have Shane Battier, about whom the NY Times Magazine ran a cover story, calling him the best team player and most unselfish player in the NBA. The Knicks best run of the season featured an undrafted skinny guard from Harvard, for gosh sakes.

7) I am not sure why this board seems to take such delight in "eating its own." Just a random late-night observation.

The dislike/hatred for Lebron is 50X worse than it is for Melo-most people are indifferent to or like Melo, but just are critical of his game. MANY, MANY PEOPLE have a STRONG DISLIKE for Lebron since the Decision, etc, and hope he NEVER WINS A title. Notice how last June everyone's favorite team was the Dallas Mavs-how many Mavs fans had you met in your life prior to that?

OH, and don't forget after the loss when Lebron said that people being happy he failed was fine, because he was rich, and everyone else would go back to their shitty lives...

 

[rrlbees]

The dislike/hatred for Lebron is 50X worse than it is for Melo-most people are indifferent to or like Melo, but just are critical of his game. MANY, MANY PEOPLE have a STRONG DISLIKE for Lebron since the Decision, etc, and hope he NEVER WINS A title. Notice how last June everyone's favorite team was the Dallas Mavs-how many Mavs fans had you met in your life prior to that?

OH, and don't forget after the loss when Lebron said that people being happy he failed was fine, because he was rich, and everyone else would go back to their shitty lives...

Point? There's dislike for a lot of players here. It's an SU board, not a UConn or Gtown or Lebron board. Disliking them is OK.

 

[44PRIDE]

Slowly but surely, this bball forum is turning into Syracuse.com

 

[CPAMan]

Point? There's dislike for a lot of players here. It's an SU board, not a UConn or Gtown or Lebron board. Disliking them is OK.

Point being that comparing the dislike of Lebron to the dislike of Carmelo is (pardon the political reference) like comparing the disapproval w/ Obama to the that of maybe a rank and file Congressman or something

 

[orangefan13]

Lebron is a media hog. The media is all over him. Should you blame Lebron for that, No. I used to say Yes but not anymore hes toned the arrogance down some without hurting his self esteem hes just trying to EARN it.

I think the majority hate him because A he was annointed the king of basketball B they want the player they root for to be the chosen one and C. Lebron hasn't really turned out to be the annonted one.

Melo gets compared to Lebron because he is as good as any scorer in the NBA. Thats a great accomplishment. Unlike Lebron every NBA player has to Earn the medias love.

As far as offensively Melo is more multidimentional then Lebron as far as defensive supreme athletism and reflexes like a Dwight howard type hes not. As far as his shot and being strong around the basket Melo has Lebron beat. As far as outjumping Lebron has everyone in the NBA beat. Asking Shaq at PF to be a aggressive in your face foot sliding defender would be rediculous, but thats what Melo is a undersized PF who is a true SG, SF, and PF on offense with ball handling and court vision.

Also defense in the NBA is few and away. You can't play defense in the NBA you can only hope to alter. And even while you are doing that its more the case of players just missing or team defense rather then individual defense. Heck Melo was guarding Kobe a few years back instead of whats his name who was only on the nuggets for defensive purposes. Hes a alright defender because hes not lazy. Was he lazy last nigh sure.

Good defense annoys players there are few players that are BUILT to play like that and Melo isn't one of them like Chris Paul, Lebron, Wade and Howard are.
But, he still blocks shots at important moments, rebounds, gets down in a stance and gets his hands up. IF anything, after the injury he might not be quite the defender he once was.

 

[Eric15]

As far as well-respected, you just have to make that judgement for yourself. CTO has the greatest respect from all of us who have been on the board for any length of time. If you haven't figured out why, then you need to stick around a little while longer and read/listen more than wondering who should be respected. Actually, why can't you/we have respect for everyone on the board. The admins will take care of those who want to go off on their own careless crusades. If you want to be respected, give respect to others.

I was being sarcastic when I asked whom should be respected and whom shouldn't. My underlying point is exactly what you said above in bold. I think everyone from the person with 10 posts to 10,000 posts deserves the same level of respect.

 

[PauliePeppas]

Orangefanyou think melo finishes stronger around the rim than lebron ? Melo is great at it but no one comes close to lebron, just look at last night...lebron had at least three and1 plays, While melo wasblocked numerous times. Lebron will get hammered and it looks like nothing bc he finishes so strong due to his strength. Hes the best finisher in the league bar none

 

[Knicks411]

I think the majority hate him because A he was annointed the king of basketball B they want the player they root for to be the chosen one and C. Lebron hasn't really turned out to be the annonted one.

Do you think that's it? I think most of it is from the decision. The guy wasn't that hated before last summer, from what I remember. There were some people who didn;t like him, of course, before that.

 

[PauliePeppas]

Do you think that's it? I think most of it is from the decision. The guy wasn't that hated before last summer, from what I remember. There were some people who didn;t like him, of course, before that.

I liked him until the decision and choosing the heat, if he did the decision and styed with the cavs i wouldve been fine with it.

 

[orangefan13]

Lebron doesn't have the strenght around the rim. He attacks violently full speed and jumps really high off the dribble. Hence the lack of high post up game.

 

[Orangezoo]

So I come back to my original point. Is there a list somewhere of which posters are well-respected and which posters aren't respected? I just want to make sure I'm in compliance with whom I can use as target practice.

In fairness, what did Skurey say that was so bad? I didn't see any personal attacks on CTO from him. If anything, KingOtis (whom I like as a poster) was much meaner calling him a "douchebag" and "black-sheep" and saying he's "nothing".

eao - you and I are not disagreeing here. Its simply a matter of context. What I am getting at is that it is nonsensical to take a poster who has been around for a long period of time to use as a platform for a discussion that has been ongoing on this board on and off. You are adding to what I am saying not countering it. I agree - its silly that we should perceive inequality on this board. However that comes from taking the condescending tone and laying claims such as one is "making things up" like skurey did. It deters from the point of discussion and refocuses on the delivery and thus we end up with a thread as such. The poorly handled response laying down personal undertones deserved the response from KingOtis in that its all the same just one is more direct than the other.

All deserve to be well-respected, and while appreciative of the connections certain posters have and their kindness to share this information, if they were to take an angle similar to skurey they deserve the same backlash? You see it all becomes circular. But we don't disagree - I just put my point into a more specific context.

 

[CPAMan]

I liked him until the decision and choosing the heat, if he did the decision and styed with the cavs i wouldve been fine with it.

Exactly. I think almost everyone liked him prior to that.

 

[skurey]

Is that not what these boards are for? Discussions? If cto didn't want her post criticized or "deconstructed" then she never would have posted it.

My whole point was I don't believe anyone on here has gone after Melo for his off the court persona. (If they have been then I obviously missed it and I apologize) His contributions to the school and local area cannot be measured. But his play on the court CAN be measured so why can't we discuss it without being marked as haters or trolls or douchebags? I also don't believe anyone has been irrational when it comes to pointing out his flaws. No one says he sucks. Everyone agrees he's very clutch. There are just some areas where he hasn't been too great and that's fine. Doesn't mean I hate him. Doesn't mean I'm going to stop rooting for him. It just means I enjoy breaking down the best sport in the world and discussing it with others on this board.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Is that not what these boards are for? Discussions? If cto didn't want her post criticized or "deconstructed" then she never would have posted it.

My whole point was I don't believe anyone on here has gone after Melo for his off the court persona. (If they have been then I obviously missed it and I apologize) His contributions to the school and local area cannot be measured. But his play on the court CAN be measured so why can't we discuss it without being marked as haters or trolls or douchebags? I also don't believe anyone has been irrational when it comes to pointing out his flaws. No one says he sucks. Everyone agrees he's very clutch. There are just some areas where he hasn't been too great and that's fine. Doesn't mean I hate him. Doesn't mean I'm going to stop rooting for him. It just means I enjoy breaking down the best sport in the world and discussing it with others on this board.

Fair enough, but from what I've seen there are some who love to emphasize the negatives while barely mentioning any positives.
There's an analogy in my line of work where a kid brings home a report card with 4 A's & 1 B.
There are some parents who'll put all the focus on the B grade, and give little or no recognition to the 4 A's. The message given is "whatever you've done, is just not enough".
Criticism is fine, but more often then not there are some who begrudgingly, if at all, will mention a positive. Its reflected in the media ("what have you done for me lately"), and often displayed on this board.

 

[Orangezoo]

nail meet head

 

[PoppyHart]

Is it criticism of Melo if you believe he is merely a top-15(ish) player, and not the top-5 talent others believe? I mean, there's no denying he's better than 98-99% of professional players. I just don't think he meets my personal definition of superstar. It's not negative. It's just honest. And a tremendous compliment at the same time.

The post by orangefan above, in my mind, is emblematic of the problem. I disagree wholeheartedly with basically all its assertions. But to shoot it down piecemeal means you have to restate the painful truth and be perceived as a bad guy.

 

[TinyManInside]

Is it criticism of Melo if you believe he is merely a top-15(ish) player, and not the top-5 talent others believe? I mean, there's no denying he's better than 98-99% of professional players. I just don't think he meets my personal definition of superstar. It's not negative. It's just honest. And a tremendous compliment at the same time.

The post by orangefan above, in my mind, is emblematic of the problem. I disagree wholeheartedly with basically all its assertions. But to shoot it down piecemeal means you have to restate the painful truth and be perceived as a bad guy.

Well said, and I tend to agree with your stance.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I just went thru the Carmelo threads.

With the exception of one post by one guy, the discussion has been pretty reasonable.

Refuting crackpot ref conspiracy angles is not the same as taking pot shots at Carmelo.

 

[SWC75]

I'll judge the Knicks when everyone is healthy and they've had time to prepare for a season with one coach whom they respect and to work out how they will use their various talents.

 

[longislandcuse]

Colin Cowherd and Mike Breen are officially the biggest Melo haters out there. I had to turn those two clowns off yesterday driving to work. Breen constantly rips on Melo, if you listen to Knicks broadcasts you know what im saying. Cowherd made so many stupid points it made my brain hurt. First off he says Melo should be traded because Amare is untradeable and Melo went on record saying he "cant play through a pg". Cowherd says to win in the NBA, you must play through a pg....really? PG's are important and I think Melo will play fine with Lin next year but I think the Finals are going to be Heat vs Lakers. Neither team runs through a pg. Lakers are iso Kobe and post up Bynum while Heat are iso Wade, iso Lebron. So Cowherd's idiotic point is shredded. Secondly he says Melo needs to make these Knicks better.....Ok, who the f&*% does he want Melo to "make better", I guess he wants Melo to create shots for them? Who is he passing it to, to make better? Jeremy Lin? Hes not playing. Shumpert? Hes not playing. Amare? Hes injured and is now not playing. Tyson? Hes been sick with the flu. Baron? Hes hurt. Bibby? Hes old. Novak? Has trouble getting a shot off against Miami. JR? Wildy inconsisten. Landry? Cant hit the backboard. Jeffries? Hahahahaa. So Colin...how is Melo to blame? The Knicks are a disaster but dont go blaming Melo and inviting Melo-hater Breen on your show to be the contrarian sports analyst who takes the anti-Melo position to garner ratings and controversy. Clown.