Carmelo's Woes

[Cusefan0307]

I love Mel but Bernie's NBA prime was better than Melos by more than a bit.

If you count prime as 4 years. Melo has stayed healthy(for the most part) and got his team to the WCF in a time the west was ridiculously dominant.

 

[Newhouser]

If you count prime as 4 years. Melo has stayed healthy(for the most part) and got his team to the WCF in a time the west was ridiculously dominant.

Bernard taking that Knick team anywhere was impressive. Pushed Celtic team that was an all time team.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Bernard taking that Knick team anywhere was impressive. Pushed Celtic team that was an all time team.

That Laker team they lost to was awesome. Probably the height of Kobe's ability. They also beat the Mav's in 5 games with almost the entire team that the Mav's had that beat Lebron and the Heat two years later. You want to say King at his peak was better fine, but Melo had the better career IMO.

 

[realorange]

Well, the media took another shot at Melo last night even though OKC won. George and Westbrook had great games. Even though nobody else on OKC scored in double figures, they had to refer to Melo as the "bread heel in the superstar sandwich."
Really cheap shot and really sad.

 

[Jasoncuse]

Well, the media took another shot at Melo last night even though OKC won. George and Westbrook had great games. Even though nobody else on OKC scored in double figures, they had to refer to Melo as the "bread heel in the superstar sandwich."
Really cheap shot and really sad.

There's truth in there though. Melo is a sliver of what he used to be. He averaged almost 5 points less this season than in any other season and his shooting numbers were way down. He had by far his lowest efficiency rating, lowest FT rate and highest 3 pt rate. Essentially, he became a catch and shoot guy more than the player he used to be. Some of that was because of his team and role, but some is also due to his declining efficiency. He doesn't deserve to be ridiculed but it's also fair to say he's not a superstar. The biggest issue is that he faded badly. After averaging 23pts on 47% shooting in October and even through January was still averaging a hair under 18ppg. Since February 1st, he averaged 13.5 ppg on 37% shooting. In March alone he had 5 games where he played 30+ minutes and scored single digits, including a 2pt game. That's unheard of for his game. I don't think he's well-suited as a 3rd option and he probably should've been rested at various times throughout the season. But at this point, he's nowhere near the RWB and PG level...

 

[HOFCeluck]

Well, the media took another shot at Melo last night even though OKC won. George and Westbrook had great games. Even though nobody else on OKC scored in double figures, they had to refer to Melo as the "bread heel in the superstar sandwich."
Really cheap shot and really sad.

That metaphor doesn't even make sense.

 

[IthacaMatt]

We've said the same thing with Melo his entire career. Starting with Andre Miller. Literally every single year.

Some years may be legit, Some not, maybe all were... but the dude has played 15 years in the NBA and forced his way into 1 of the dumbest trades ever. I'm glad he's got his 25,000 points - but my expectations were that he would be a top 5 player in the NBA for a decade. There may be a year or 2 that he snuck into real superstardom... Buts his NBA career to me is a let down. And I'm pretty sure deep down he feels it too.

Well, at least he has his Gold Medals to fall back on.

At this point, his career looks a lot like that of Dominique Wilkins - a guy who could consistently score throughout his career. Both were All-Stars around 10 times; both were All-NBA six or seven times.

Very good player who never got over the hump to win a ring.

 

[IthacaMatt]

And I hope to heck he doesn't need the money!

He probably will eventually be getting divorced from a TV personality, so that's going to hurt.

 

[reedny]

Well, the media took another shot at Melo last night even though OKC won. George and Westbrook had great games. Even though nobody else on OKC scored in double figures, they had to refer to Melo as the "bread heel in the superstar sandwich."
Really cheap shot and really sad.

I agree. That talk is totally unfair. I've watched OKC a lot this year. Westbrook scores a lot of points because he dominates the ball - especially late game. He's effective pushing pace and getting to the rim. But in close games, particularly in the second half, transition buckets are harder to come by. At that point, Westbrook's not the clutch scorer that Melo and George are. In fact, he's a pretty poor shooter ... that shoots a lot. His EFGP numbers are the same as Melo's, but that's from transition not from the field. He's shooting 29% from outside. Melo's about 36%, respectable. And George is at 40%, pretty good. But their attempts are the reverse -- Westbrook takes over 21 shots a game, George 17 and Melo 15. So the numbers reflect what I've seen .. which is that Westbrook drives and gets layups but also jacks a lot of shots that don't go in. So no doubt Melo's not as quick as he was 10 years ago, but the "sandwich" concept is bogus.

 

[orangecuse]

I wish Melo had gone to the Cavs. Lebron last night had to be in beast mode again for the Cavs, needed to hit that big time, Jordan-esque 3 at the buzzer for the win. 44 points...what a great number!

Love is nothing more than a decent NBA level player. He again disappeared in the 2nd half of that game, and proved again he's not any semblance of a go to guy when the game is on the line, missing a wide open 3 under a minute left that would've given the Cavs some breathing room with a 5 point cushion had he made it. JR was abysmal offensively, 0-9 from the floor and zero points. Korver was the only other guy besides Lebron that could make shots when it really counted. It's pretty astonishing that the Cav's won in all actuality.

At least Melo would've given the Cavs another player who most likely shows up when it matters most. Take Lebron off this Cavs team and they likely are a 20 win team.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I wish Melo had gone to the Cavs. Lebron last night had to be in beast mode again for the Cavs, needed to hit that big time, Jordan-esque 3 at the buzzer for the win. 44 points...what a great number!

Love is nothing more than a decent NBA level player. He again disappeared in the 2nd half of that game, and proved again he's not any semblance of a go to guy when the game is on the line, missing a wide open 3 under a minute left that would've given the Cavs some breathing room with a 5 point cushion had he made it. JR was abysmal offensively, 0-9 from the floor and zero points. Korver was the only other guy besides Lebron that could make shots when it really counted. It's pretty astonishing that the Cav's won in all actuality.

At least Melo would've given the Cavs another player who most likely shows up when it matters most. Take Lebron off this Cavs team and they likely are a 20 win team.

Yeah, LeBron is such a force with incredible vision so I bet Melo would’ve thrived there better than in OKC. He still needs to knock down shots, though. I don’t really know what you do with him, though. His 3pt shooting isn’t very good this year despite attempting the second most amount of threes in his career. He’s never moved well without the ball. Seems like his lift his gone and his ISO skills have greatly diminished. I hope his shooting can improve moving forward since staying in a corner shooting threes is probably the kind of role he will be given moving forward which I don’t necessarily disagree with.

 

[Knicks411]

Yeah, LeBron is such a force with incredible vision so I bet Melo would’ve thrived there better than in OKC. He still needs to knock down shots, though. I don’t really know what you do with him, though. His 3pt shooting isn’t very good this year despite attempting the second most amount of threes in his career. He’s never moved well without the ball. Seems like his lift his gone and his ISO skills have greatly diminished. I hope his shooting can improve moving forward since staying in a corner shooting threes is probably the kind of role he will be given moving forward which I don’t necessarily disagree with.

I am surprised the shooting has gone down, he's obviously not the athlete he once was, but you would expect the shooting to still be there. And it probably would be better with Lebron, because Lebron makes everyone better.

But really the bottom line is Melo is just not even close to the player he once was. He's been awful in these playoffs, so it's not like you can say for sure he's a guy who shows up when it matters.

 

[Cheriehoop]

I am surprised the shooting has gone down, he's obviously not the athlete he once was, but you would expect the shooting to still be there. And it probably would be better with Lebron, because Lebron makes everyone better.

But really the bottom line is Melo is just not even close to the player he once was. He's been awful in these playoffs, so it's not like you can say for sure he's a guy who shows up when it matters.

He’s improved his defense but his explosiveness has gone south. I wonder if he’s got issues with his knees, leg strength. I saw him make some good moves to the basket but lacked any elevation or explosiveness to finish. I don’t know if it’s just age catching up quickly or physical issues.

 

[Knicks411]

He’s improved his defense but his explosiveness has gone south. I wonder if he’s got issues with his knees, leg strength. I saw him make some good moves to the basket but lacked any elevation or explosiveness to finish. I don’t know if it’s just age catching up quickly or physical issues.

Probably both, he's getting up there, and he had knee surgery a few years back.

 

[reedny]

Are you talking about the playoffs (he hasn't played as well as he can lately), or this year - his 15th? Playoffs are a pretty short sample .. a few games. If it's this year you're talking about, his 3pt shooting is actually better (.357) than his career average ((.347). And his EFGP is pretty close to his average over 15 seasons. These numbers don't exactly show someone's who's falling off the ledge or sucking.

2003-04 19 DEN NBA SF 82 82 2995 624 1465 .426 69 214 .322 555 1251 .444 .449 408 525 .777 183 315 498 227 97 41 247 225 1725
2004-05 20 DEN NBA SF 75 75 2608 530 1230 .431 42 158 .266 488 1072 .455 .448 456 573 .796 141 285 426 194 68 30 224 229 1558
2005-06 21 DEN NBA SF 80 80 2941 756 1572 .481 37 152 .243 719 1420 .506 .493 573 709 .808 122 272 394 216 88 42 218 229 2122
2006-07 22 DEN NBA SF 65 65 2486 691 1453 .476 40 149 .268 651 1304 .499 .489 459 568 .808 143 248 391 249 77 23 234 203 1881
2007-08 23 DEN NBA SF 77 77 2806 728 1481 .492 58 164 .354 670 1317 .509 .511 464 590 .786 178 393 571 259 98 39 253 253 1978
2008-09 24 DEN NBA SF 66 66 2277 535 1207 .443 63 170 .371 472 1037 .455 .469 371 468 .793 106 344 450 222 75 24 199 195 1504
2009-10 25 DEN NBA SF 69 69 2634 688 1502 .458 59 187 .316 629 1315 .478 .478 508 612 .830 152 302 454 222 88 30 209 225 1943
2010-11 26 TOT NBA SF 77 77 2751 684 1503 .455 95 251 .378 589 1252 .470 .487 507 605 .838 118 445 563 221 68 46 206 224 1970
2010-11 26 DEN NBA SF 50 50 1774 437 967 .452 42 126 .333 395 841 .470 .474 343 417 .823 77 305 382 140 43 31 142 134 1259
2010-11 26 NYK NBA SF 27 27 977 247 536 .461 53 125 .424 194 411 .472 .510 164 188 .872 41 140 181 81 25 15 64 90 711
2011-12 27 NYK NBA SF 55 55 1876 441 1025 .430 68 203 .335 373 822 .454 .463 295 367 .804 88 256 344 200 62 24 144 156 1245
2012-13 28 NYK NBA PF 67 67 2482 669 1489 .449 157 414 .379 512 1075 .476 .502 425 512 .830 134 326 460 171 52 32 175 205 1920
2013-14 29 NYK NBA PF 77 77 2982 743 1643 .452 167 415 .402 576 1228 .469 .503 459 541 .848 145 477 622 242 95 51 198 224 2112
2014-15 30 NYK NBA SF 40 40 1428 358 806 .444 61 179 .341 297 627 .474 .482 189 237 .797 72 192 264 122 40 17 89 87 966
2015-16 31 NYK NBA SF 72 72 2530 567 1307 .434 105 310 .339 462 997 .463 .474 334 403 .829 98 458 556 299 62 38 176 180 1573
2016-17 32 NYK NBA SF 74 74 2538 602 1389 .433 151 421 .359 451 968 .466 .488 304 365 .833 62 376 438 213 60 34 153 198 1659
2017-18 33 OKC NBA PF 78 78 2501 472 1168 .404 169 474 .357 303 694 .437 .476 148 193 .767 67 386 453 103 47 49 99 197 1261

Career NBA 1054 1054 37835 9088 20240 .449 1341 3861 .347 7747 16379 .473 .482 5900 7268 .812 1809 5075 6884 3160 1077 520 2824 3030 25417
8 seasons DEN NBA 564 564 20521 4989 10877 .459 410 1320 .311 4579 9557 .479 .478 3582 4462 .803 1102 2464 3566 1729 634 260 1726 1693 13970
7 seasons NYK NBA 412 412 14813 3627 8195 .443 762 2067 .369 2865 6128 .468 .489 2170 2613 .830 640 2225 2865 1328 396 211 999 1140 10186

 

[Knicks411]

His true shooting this year is 50.3%, his lowest since his rookie year. His FT rate has cratered, as has his usage, and assist rate.

his EFG has stayed about the same because he's transitioned to being more of a secondary player who takes more 3's. (that's fine, that's the role he should play now. But he's clearly a diminished player)

 

[reedny]

His true shooting this year is 50.3%, his lowest since his rookie year. His FT rate has cratered, as has his usage, and assist rate.

his EFG has stayed about the same because he's transitioned to being more of a secondary player who takes more 3's. (that's fine, that's the role he should play now. But he's clearly a diminished player)

Usage and assist rates are not really fair metrics in this offense - with a ball hawk like Westbrook and Melo being a third offensive option spread to the outside or corner to draw defenders. I was going by his effective FG percentage .. which is a pretty good statistic, no?, since it adjusts for 3 pointers counting one more point.

However, good take about his FT's. What is going on? He's always been steady at the line. I watched one game where he missed 2 FT's (not like him at all) and they wound up losing (of course, MWB jacked a few shots that missed).

 

[newmexicuse]

Maybe, it is just Melo's body type, but he sure does not appear to have the same physical conditioning as a LeBron or most other players that play successfully into their thirties.

He is no spring chick, but he is not that old chronologically that his game should be declining this rapidly.

 

[CusefanATL]

I am surprised the shooting has gone down, he's obviously not the athlete he once was, but you would expect the shooting to still be there. And it probably would be better with Lebron, because Lebron makes everyone better.

But really the bottom line is Melo is just not even close to the player he once was. He's been awful in these playoffs, so it's not like you can say for sure he's a guy who shows up when it matters.

this exactly.

 

[cuseinseattle]

Well, the media took another shot at Melo last night even though OKC won. George and Westbrook had great games. Even though nobody else on OKC scored in double figures, they had to refer to Melo as the "bread heel in the superstar sandwich."
Really cheap shot and really sad.

The media hates Melo and I never really have gotten it. He does volunteer work, gives money to charity, is a pretty good interview. It seems like they go out of there way to criticize him

 

[Newhouser]

Maybe, it is just Melo's body type, but he sure does not appear to have the same physical conditioning as a LeBron or most other players that play successfully into their thirties.

He is no spring chick, but he is not that old chronologically that his game should be declining this rapidly.

LBJ's physical dominance is starting to raise a red flag in my mind. Like Karl Malone before him and Ray Lewis in the NFL. Bigger and stronger and as fast as you age and add that much wear and tear.....I'm a skeptic and think there is something going on (not just with LBJ) with these older Peter Pans.

 

[alphaorange]

He’s improved his defense but his explosiveness has gone south. I wonder if he’s got issues with his knees, leg strength. I saw him make some good moves to the basket but lacked any elevation or explosiveness to finish. I don’t know if it’s just age catching up quickly or physical issues.

Without trying to be argumentative, Anthony's defense has always been atrocious. I've watched nearly all NY games with him and although he was possibly the best scorer in the league when he was on, he was a real detriment when he wasn't. He never wanted to give up the ball in clutch situations, was a swinging door on defense, and for the last 5 years has been stopped at the rim countless times while looking for the bailout call. I wanted him to come to NY, but as a FA. His desire for the money forced the horrible trade (from a NY POV). I think had he come via Free Agency, he would have had a much better career with better team results. It just seems that people think with their heart rather than their head in all things orange/Melo. Great player but he could have been so much more.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Without trying to be argumentative, Anthony's defense has always been atrocious. I've watched nearly all NY games with him and although he was possibly the best scorer in the league when he was on, he was a real detriment when he wasn't. He never wanted to give up the ball in clutch situations, was a swinging door on defense, and for the last 5 years has been stopped at the rim countless times while looking for the bailout call. I wanted him to come to NY, but as a FA. His desire for the money forced the horrible trade (from a NY POV). I think had he come via Free Agency, he would have had a much better career with better team results. It just seems that people think with their heart rather than their head in all things orange/Melo. Great player but he could have been so much more.

Wow , sorry I hit a sore spot in my 2 sentence post. He isn't playing for the Knicks. Have you watched this current series because I have. No need to take pot shots just because you don't agree. I don't see what upset you so much in my two sentence statement about his loss of explosiveness and inability to elevate. I did put in 4 words that were relatively complimentary about his defense(compared to his Knicks days) that you certainly seem overly resentful of. I was being honest in my personal opinion but having no NBA team allegiance of course I don't blame him for the demise and fall of the Knicks franchise either. I never got into what his possible legacy is or should be in my post, like you did in your reply.

 

[Col. Bleep]

Gotta give Melo this...he generally is straight up about his game.
If you wanna be the man you gotta get it done.

https://nypost.com/2018/04/27/carmelo-anthonys-thunder-role-in-question-after-argument/

 

[DoctorBombay]

Without trying to be argumentative, Anthony's defense has always been atrocious. I've watched nearly all NY games with him and although he was possibly the best scorer in the league when he was on, he was a real detriment when he wasn't. He never wanted to give up the ball in clutch situations, was a swinging door on defense, and for the last 5 years has been stopped at the rim countless times while looking for the bailout call. I wanted him to come to NY, but as a FA. His desire for the money forced the horrible trade (from a NY POV). I think had he come via Free Agency, he would have had a much better career with better team results. It just seems that people think with their heart rather than their head in all things orange/Melo. Great player but he could have been so much more.

Never understood this irrational concept that somehow Melo "forced a trade" to NY. What, did he kidnap the NYK front office and hold them hostage until he got his way? All they needed to do was hold off till he became a FA at the end of the year, yet Melo gets blamed for "forcing" them to panic and act prematurely? The old "stop me before I kill again" theory of sports management, I guess.
The man wanted his money, and he wanted to come to NY. If the Knicks would've waited, both things would've taken place. The simple answer would've been- "we'll revisit this at the end of the year", then call off negotiations and wait. The lack of planning and foresight from the Knicks shouldn't preclude Melo from wanting he get his money. Its called being a capitalist...because, 'Murica!