Carrier Dome

[xc84]

I think they should build a retractable roof and they certainly could. The movable part of JerryWorld is not held up by the concrete, it is held up by the giant curved steel structure. Same with reliant Stadium, supported by Steel structures. Why not blow out the West end of the dome and build new locker rooms, add some nice SU shops a couple restaurants that are open all the time for students and the public. To generate revenue beyond gamedays and lure the public in. Build a steel structure over the top of the current concrete sarcophagus that will support the weight of a movable roof, an exoskeleton if you will. Would this be as expensive as constructing a new dome, no. Would it probably run around 35-40 million, probably. Building anything in Syracuse is not as expensive as building in other places, keep that in mind.

But not 100-150 million to replace it on South Campus.

You are way off on the cost of a retractable roof.

The Metrodome, built for $55 million and opened in 1982, has had its moments. The first three times the roof tore were in the 1980s, after heavy snows and hurricane-force winds.

In 1989 the Sports Facilities Commission looked at possibly replacing the fabric dome with a retractable roof but dropped the idea when it learned the price tag: $240 million.

 

[CuseOnly]

You are way off on the cost of a retractable roof.

Someone above noted that adding it to Minnesota's stadium would have cost 25 mil for a 68K facility. How would 35-40 mil be "off" especially considering that we already have a structure and would only have to build a structure to handle the weight?

Are you and architect of stadiums with inside knowledge? The Metrodome is also 4-5 times the actual size of the Dome.

 

[SUbear]

It's totally feasible. It's just a high priority given the expense of installing and running it.

You are correct AC for the dome is not particularly difficult no more than four commercial chillers would easily do the trick. Carrier might even be talked into doing the equipment at bargain rate(originally offered to install at build which is of course easier, but SU said no thanks). They probably are sick of hearing about it on TV, that Carrier dome is so hot in summer and Sept. Vague threat to use Trane or York equipment might also induce them. The Carrier dome cooled by Trane, not very good for them.
Biggest cost would be the retrofit installation, and then there is SU original refusal due to ongoing maintenance and operational costs.

 

[xc84]

The preferred formula is one where the owners fund the majority if not the entirety of the stadium costs, one way or another (traditional borrowing, PSL's, personal wealth, etc). Owners should want to keep Govco out of it, like any other private or corporate investment. Corporate naming opportunities can add nominal amounts to the coffers, but unless somehow the company is the owner (tough sell to the board and the stockholders to diversify your bank or widget manufacturer into owning a ballclub), they generally aren't going to want to pay large percentages of the construction costs. Too expensive, and you don't get the return.

Exactly. Not a feasible thing for SU.

 

[HarrisonJBounel]

Please make more political statements, it's really adding to the discourse in this thread.

Just trying to live up to my signature quote.

 

[xc84]

Someone above noted that adding it to Minnesota's stadium would have cost 25 mil for a 68K facility. How would 35-40 mil be "off" especially considering that we already have a structure and would only have to build a structure to handle the weight?

Are you and architect of stadiums with inside knowledge? The Metrodome is also 4-5 times the actual size of the Dome.

Do you not read? I already posted it.

The Metrodome is the one in Minnesota. http://www.startribune.com/local/minneapolis/112318269.html

In 1989 the Sports Facilities Commission looked at possibly replacing the fabric dome with a retractable roof but dropped the idea when it learned the price tag: $240 million.

And that was 1989. And the Mtrodome is not 4-5 times the size of the dome. No even close. The roof is about 1.5 X.

 

[CuseOnly]

BC Place in British Columbia Canada had an air supported roof that was replaced by a retractable fabric roof and it seems to work. It was also built around the same year as the Carrier Dome.

http://www.bcplacestadium.com/

Also, there are only 3 -4 air supported roofs left in North America.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=tearing-metrodome-pressurized-stadiums-unsafe

http://www.bcplacestadium.com/index.php/ARCHITECTURE_AND_DESIGN.html

Proof that it can be done and not for 240 million dollars above.

 

[xc84]

BC Place in British Columbia Canada had an air supported roof that was replaced by a retractable fabric roof and it seems to work. It was also built around the same year as the Carrier Dome.

http://www.bcplacestadium.com/

Also, there are only 3 -4 air supported roofs left in North America.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=tearing-metrodome-pressurized-stadiums-unsafe

http://www.bcplacestadium.com/index.php/ARCHITECTURE_AND_DESIGN.html

Proof that it can be done and not for 240 million dollars above.

LOL http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2011/09/28/bc-place-facelift-retractable-roof_n_986203.html

The BC Place renovations cost $560M. That's your proof? I guess it's proof that $240M is way low.

 

[CuseOnly]

LOL http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2011/09/28/bc-place-facelift-retractable-roof_n_986203.html

The BC Place renovations cost $560M. That's your proof? I guess it's proof that $240M is way low.

I also failed to read where is says the roof alone cost $560 million dollars. Doesn't that article right in the headline state "ALL THE TRIMMINS".

It has an additional upper retractable roof that masks the upper bowl when soccer is played there along with all of the below including a complete new façade and a ridiculous lighting package inside and out for the Olympic ceremonies. Completely new doors included.

The $560-million in renovations include a retractable roof which can be opened or closed in 20 minutes. There also is a huge centre-hung video board with two HD screens that are the equivalent to 450, 42-inch flat-screen TVs.
Throughout the building there are 800 Wi-Fi points and 1,150 digital screens. There are new, wider seats; improved acoustics; modern turf; and enhanced concession and bathroom facilities.
Gone is the huge air-supported roof that looked like a dirty marshmallow on the Vancouver skyline. It has been replaced by 36 roof support masts that look like a crown.
The drab concrete building now sparkles with clear glazing. Antiquated revolving doors have given way to grand entrances. The once cold, dark interior is now flooded with natural light.

 

[rocklloyd]

The work I am referring to is retrofitting the dome with some HVAC. Also I am pretty sure names can change on facilities especially after 30 plus years.

The maintenance alone for a system required would be an incredible financial burden. It's truly not worth it. The same reasons for not putting a/c in 1980 are valid today.

 

[rocklloyd]

It's the Carrier Dome in perpetuity. Perhaps they could be bought out. But it would probably cost more than the $5 million they donated in the first place. They got a bargain.

2.75m

 

[xc84]

I also failed to read where is says the roof alone cost $560 million dollars. Doesn't that article right in the headline state "ALL THE TRIMMINS".

It has an additional upper retractable roof that masks the upper bowl when soccer is played there along with all of the below including a complete new façade and a ridiculous lighting package inside and out for the Olympic ceremonies. Completely new doors included.

The $560-million in renovations include a retractable roof which can be opened or closed in 20 minutes. There also is a huge centre-hung video board with two HD screens that are the equivalent to 450, 42-inch flat-screen TVs.
Throughout the building there are 800 Wi-Fi points and 1,150 digital screens. There are new, wider seats; improved acoustics; modern turf; and enhanced concession and bathroom facilities.
Gone is the huge air-supported roof that looked like a dirty marshmallow on the Vancouver skyline. It has been replaced by 36 roof support masts that look like a crown.
The drab concrete building now sparkles with clear glazing. Antiquated revolving doors have given way to grand entrances. The once cold, dark interior is now flooded with natural light.

What do you think the most expensive part of the renovation was? This is actually getting to be really dumb. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/new-retractable-roof-for-bc-place-hits-458m-1.838117

 

[CuseOnly]

What do you think the most expensive part of the renovation was? This is actually getting to be really dumb. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/new-retractable-roof-for-bc-place-hits-458m-1.838117

Is this the exact roof I am suggesting to put on the dome, No but it can be done as a retrofit and can most likely be done cheaper than this. My original point was to not Poo Poo the idea and that it could be done. Also, the BC Place arena is 4 Hectares just like the Metrodome. The Dome is only 2.7 and we don't need 2 retractable sections like BC place to hide an upper bowl with another roof and retractable curtains and I believe in the article it states that the video boards are included in the cost of the roof. It can be done for much less cost. Covering a 4 Hectare area with a retractable roof I would guess cost exponentially more than a building 2/3 the size and architecturally would be much easier. Kind of like adding an additional 10 -15 ft of height on the IPF would double the cost just so we can punt in there which is not necessary.

They also spared no expense and built it green because the world was watching so I am sure it cost more than it could have especially using public money.

Me personally, I don't think they tear the Dome down for another 30 years so I am guessing that this is the way that they will go eventually. Just a much more inexpensive solution/design. On top of the fact that it is an outdated design that has been looked at by architects that have said it is not safe and there are better ways to do it in the article I posted farther above on the Metrodome.

 

[Scooch]

Sweet merciful crap, we're not putting a retractable roof on the Dome.

Let's talk about other more realistic things, like free pony rides for every attendee and the Jennifer Love Hewitt kissing booth.

 

[Opus]

Just rip the top off the dome and make it football only. Make the southern teams play in the elements. Then buy Hinerwadel's Grove (originally a site for the Dome) in North Syracuse and build a basketball only facility. As popular as SU bball is, I am sure the students will find a way to get out there, right? (And yes, money is nothing.) Oh and if you think I am serious...

 

[rrlbees]

Isn't the current college of law complex going to be gutted to house the Falk College? That will pretty much abut the Dome.

You are correct.

 

[rrlbees]

I'd like to see the number crunching on this one.

Don't need to know exact numbers, just common sense. The value of new academic buildings in the heart of the campus is worth X. Whatever the value of athletics is isn't going to change just by moving its location to a new facility. Might even go up. It's a waste of money to put an academic building on south campus. Not so for sports.

 

[Bayside44]

Don't need to know exact numbers, just common sense. The value of new academic buildings in the heart of the campus is worth X. Whatever the value of athletics is isn't going to change just by moving its location to a new facility. Might even go up. It's a waste of money to put an academic building on south campus. Not so for sports.

If a stadium and infrastructure is 500 mil and upwards, how are a few classroom buildings going to cost more than that? Was by Duke today, they have a split campus and somehow make it work.

 

[HarrisonJBounel]

2.75m

Great. The China Towne Dome.

 

[rrlbees]

I agree that taxes, regulation, and unions have driven former corporate jewels like IBM, Kodak, Xerox, and GE out of Upstate New York.

O'really.

 

[rrlbees]

If a stadium and infrastructure is 500 mil and upwards, how are a few classroom buildings going to cost more than that? Was by Duke today, they have a split campus and somehow make it work.

SU would never pay $500m. A split campus might be nice but putting a couple of academic buildings on south campus doesn't make it a split campus. It makes it a campus with a couple of out of place academic buildings.

 

[Bayside44]

SU would never pay $500m. A split campus might be nice but putting a couple of academic buildings on south campus doesn't make it a split campus. It makes it a campus with a couple of out of place academic buildings.

Where does the $$$ for new stadiums / arena / infrastructure come from?

 

[rrlbees]

Where does the $$$ for new stadiums / arena / infrastructure come from?

Obviously it will have to be multiple sources. Creative financing, naming rights, large donors, small donors, govt money, etc. and before you say no way, the most important part almost happened about 5 years ago with a very large donation. It can and will happen eventually. The only caveat is with a new chancellor he may have other ideas.

 

[Bayside44]

Obviously it will have to be multiple sources. Creative financing, naming rights, large donors, small donors, govt money, etc. and before you say no way, the most important part almost happened about 5 years ago with a very large donation. It can and will happen eventually. The only caveat is with a new chancellor he may have other ideas.

The Washington Nationals play 10 blocks from our capitol, have 2 of the top players in the game, have drawn 5 million people in the last two seasons and have been unable to sell naming rights to their park. You see what donations do for smaller projects, and state government is broke.

Personally I think the Dome is a gem and why mess with it, but practically I don't see where the money comes from, unless that dude sold his mountain in PA for a billion to some frackers.

 

[SUbear]

O'really.

More to it than that but certainly contributing factors.

 

[sutomcat]

The corporate name has to be visible from 81.

That is going to be a problem given the 2 new East German prisons SU has just built between the Dome and 81...