CB Duce Chestnut transferring to LSU

[Consigliere]

I agree, and fans will live with it or they won’t. And I don’t necessarily agree with the second statement, that might be true in some industries but definitely not all. Big fish eat small fish, and that doesn’t necessarily mean your absorbed if your the small fish. You just have to keep developing talent and stay in the shallow end.

The other difference is that unless you sign a contract, the company can shed non-performing employees at will. A P5 football scholarship is a four year guarantee of "employment." Using the business analogy the offer letter and NLI essentially is a non-binding contract that currently binds the company, but not the employee.

 

[OttoMets]

That’s the thing that kills me. Kid commits to a program for his college career as the best available option. Program invests time and resources in developing that player. Then, with nothing changing other than the player improving skills and/or getting more visibility as a result of the program’s investment, a bigger name program, who generally had no interest initially, entices the player to abandon his commitment for perceived greener grass.

...

Agreed.

Reminds me of my experience at a mediocre law school. There were a couple dozen first-year students who achieved well and promptly transferred to top-tier (ish) schools for their last two years. Good for them? Yeah. But I knew that some of them had had very limited options coming in (one in particular due to a criminal matter); my school had taken a flyer on these borderline cases, let a spot be occupied for a year, and then gotten a "see ya" as thanks for the opportunity when a rosier opportunity presented itself.

Maybe not apples-to-apples, but it's not what I'd consider an admirable way to carry myself.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

its not really the same thing.

College is where schools strive maintain a competitive balance to make it fair. This NIL removes some of that balance.. Its why the Pros have salary caps to try to keep it somewhat in sync. now if the NIL had team caps that would make it more fair. But that requires a union to give away some player rights.

NIl Is great for some players.. But others have to realize its also removing a bunch of money fro 95% of the other players.

How is it removing money from 95% of players?

 

[Consigliere]

This is part of the problem. Scholarships are 1 year contracts at almost all schools. How many times has a coaching staff changed and multiple existing roster scholarship athletes do not have those scholarships renewed. Equally, how many times is a player injured and continues to receive said scholarship until he/she/they graduate because 'it's the right thing to do'. Both instances occur frequently but the contract is almost always annual.

Right, wrong, or indifferent - it happens everywhere and is what part of the player equity argument was for having the transfer portal.

IMO, fewer and fewer athletes are selecting the school because it offers the best education opportunity. They are selecting the school that has the coach they want, the exposure they want, and/or the bagman with the most money.

Actually at P5 football schools (more than half of the FBS now) they are 4 year guaranteed scholarships now,

The NCAA has allowed colleges to provide multiyear scholarships since 2012. Additionally, in 2015, NCAA D1 colleges from the Power Five conferences (colleges in the Football Bowl Subdivision, plus Notre Dame) agreed to implement a rule that prevented multi-year D1 scholarships from being canceled or not renewed for any athletic reason.

Are Athletic Scholarships Guaranteed For 4 Years?

Receiving an athletic scholarship is not as common as families think. Offers are often confused with an actual scholarship, and they are two different things.

www.sportsengine.com

 

[GoSU96]

I think what people are failing to grasp in some cases is that there has been a fundamental shift here - the power programs have figured out how to exploit the NIL/Open transfer portal system and the NCAA has done and probably will do nothing to stop it. Open recruitment of players on mid P5 and G5 schools will just continue to get worse and what was a system that was already stacked against schools like Syracuse will just get harder and harder to compete for talent in. It will require exceptional scouting, constant attention to the roster and reclamation projects. The part where I get most concerned is that you are probably now putting more expectations on player locating and development on lesser equipped programs than ever before.

1. Teams are still capped at 85

2 This assumes unlimited resources

SU has and I expect will continue to improve the roster through the portal.

There are 16 players on next years roster that that had 247 grades of .87 or higher. 12 are transfers. The non transfers are ECJ,Nolton, LQA, and Daniels.

SU today has a better roster than it would have otherwise because of the current scheme. It has to keep building its retention program for its top talent, but so far there hasn’t been close to a mass exodus of kids Babers wanted to keep. The successes have far outweighed the losses.

 

[baggerbob]

Actually at P5 football schools (more than half of the FBS now) they are 4 year guaranteed scholarships now,

The NCAA has allowed colleges to provide multiyear scholarships since 2012. Additionally, in 2015, NCAA D1 colleges from the Power Five conferences (colleges in the Football Bowl Subdivision, plus Notre Dame) agreed to implement a rule that prevented multi-year D1 scholarships from being canceled or not renewed for any athletic reason.

Are Athletic Scholarships Guaranteed For 4 Years?

Receiving an athletic scholarship is not as common as families think. Offers are often confused with an actual scholarship, and they are two different things.

www.sportsengine.com

Under the new system I would expect that guarantee to be cancelled.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Under the new system I would expect that guarantee to be cancelled.

That would create even more havoc.

 

[UpstateSM]

We just made a bowl game and we are going to be even better next season

 

[SmilinBob]

And they transferred in because Syracuse tampered with and paid them to do it?

Right and to add to that some have previous experience with those players, directly or indirectly. Shady and not.

 

[upperdeck]

How is it removing money from 95% of players?

because there isnt billions to go around.. is this designed to help all players or just the better ones get millions. if this was really about helping all the players they would have built in a 10-20Ks stipend for all players in all sports.. we already know some teams have way more money to spend.. and if they tipping pt becomes only 5-10 teams can compete then why would anyone spend money to support the lower 75% of the teams in any meaningful way.. this is only a few yrs in and getting out of control what happens in 5-10 more yrs.

 

[David321]

Here’s to hoping they don’t make him dance awkwardly with Brian Kelly.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

because there isnt billions to go around.. is this designed to help all players or just the better ones get millions. if this was really about helping all the players they would have built in a 10-20Ks stipend for all players in all sports.. we already know some teams have way more money to spend.. and if they tipping pt becomes only 5-10 teams can compete then why would anyone spend money to support the lower 75% of the teams in any meaningful way.. this is only a few yrs in and getting out of control what happens in 5-10 more yrs.

None of what you said removes money from other players. There never has been a situation where student-athletes draw equally from a pot.

 

[sufandu]

Agreed...And the more fans the bigger the business. SU draws 35k or so LSU and OSU a heck of a lot more.

The business can be viewed two ways. There is the individual school side and the more macro college football as a whole side. Certainly the bigger schools will benefit, which is why the macro could suffer. If people view their school as not having a chance, they may not care about the whole thing. It's at least one reason why NFL and NBA are more popular than MLB.

 

[tep624]

"I really think it’s time to start finding something else to do with our collective time."

Why not just start now? Why bother getting upset about a slightly above average DB going to a mid SEC school. If we can't handle that...its time to start another hobby.

Forgot that after 30 years of being a fan I need your permission to discuss a topic. Oh that's right, I don't!

Yeah and nice downplay on a freshman AA in Chestnut and Carter transferring to power schools. Barely above average guys, why should we care?? Yeah why get upset that we have all conference level starters transferring out due to backdoor $$ - better just to stick our heads in the sand and pretend the whole system is daisies like our resident expert DjCon!

 

[tep624]

Right and to add to that some have previous experience with those players, directly or indirectly. Shady and not.

The point is that the power programs are using NIL to induce all conference level players to transfer to their schools - Syracuse recruiting a Grad Transfer from Richmond isn't even on the same level. And I really doubt we had to offer NIL $$'s before the kid even transferred to do that.

 

[Geode]

Actually at P5 football schools (more than half of the FBS now) they are 4 year guaranteed scholarships now,

The NCAA has allowed colleges to provide multiyear scholarships since 2012. Additionally, in 2015, NCAA D1 colleges from the Power Five conferences (colleges in the Football Bowl Subdivision, plus Notre Dame) agreed to implement a rule that prevented multi-year D1 scholarships from being canceled or not renewed for any athletic reason.

Are Athletic Scholarships Guaranteed For 4 Years?

Receiving an athletic scholarship is not as common as families think. Offers are often confused with an actual scholarship, and they are two different things.

www.sportsengine.com

Thank you for sharing. I did not realize those changes had been put into place. I'd heard a lot talk around it. Appreciate the info.

 

[sufandu]

Sure they do. They're called customers. This is why brand matters.

Difference is a customer at a company doesn't care who is employed there.

Nah. Customers don't show loyalty when a company makes a crap product or service the way fans show loyalty to sports teams that aren't doing well. Look at Cleveland Brown attendance during their attrocious period when they first came back to the NFL. Look no further than this board the last 15 years. Loyalty in sports is not the same as customer loyalty with consumer goods and services.

And with college sports the college makes the fan care at least as much about the player as the players make the fans care about the school. There's a reason we don't have thread after thread on here about Alabama players or Clemson players. Despite them being on the average better than the players at SU, we care about SU players because they go to SU.

 

[djcon57]

Forgot that after 30 years of being a fan I need your permission to discuss a topic. Oh that's right, I don't!

Yeah and nice downplay on a freshman AA in Chestnut and Carter transferring to power schools. Barely above average guys, why should we care?? Yeah why get upset that we have all conference level starters transferring out due to backdoor $$ - better just to stick our heads in the sand and pretend the whole system is daisies like our resident expert DjCon!

No. Being 30 years of a fan is why I said your previous post of stomping your feet and saying you weren’t gonna watch anymore was so laughable.

So again, I’ll see you here next year

 

[tep624]

No. Being 30 years of a fan is why I said your previous post of stomping your feet and saying you weren’t gonna watch anymore was so laughable.

So again, I’ll see you here next year

I'm just incredibly frustrated with how this is all playing out.

 

[AZOrange]

Agreed.

Reminds me of my experience at a mediocre law school. There were a couple dozen first-year students who achieved well and promptly transferred to top-tier (ish) schools for their last two years. Good for them? Yeah. But I knew that some of them had had very limited options coming in (one in particular due to a criminal matter); my school had taken a flyer on these borderline cases, let a spot be occupied for a year, and then gotten a "see ya" as thanks for the opportunity when a rosier opportunity presented itself.

Maybe not apples-to-apples, but it's not what I'd consider an admirable way to carry myself.

Funny I have used this exact same example with people

 

[David321]

It doesn’t need to help us. I root for the kids. Duce is a good kid.
He is leaving for a bigger fish. I can’t complain about that.
If he was going to Maryland or Mississippi State type of program I would be ticked off.
Those are similar level programs to us.
Duce is getting a promotion I can’t complain he is leaving.
It’s just how college athletics is going to be now. Kids aren’t going to stay if they can go to a better situation they will.

Please don’t think this is directed at you personally (it’s totally not) but I’ve always thought it was misguided when we refer to these players as kids; they are not kids they are young men.

 

[Cuse'91]

Agreed.

Reminds me of my experience at a mediocre law school. There were a couple dozen first-year students who achieved well and promptly transferred to top-tier (ish) schools for their last two years. Good for them? Yeah. But I knew that some of them had had very limited options coming in (one in particular due to a criminal matter); my school had taken a flyer on these borderline cases, let a spot be occupied for a year, and then gotten a "see ya" as thanks for the opportunity when a rosier opportunity presented itself.

Maybe not apples-to-apples, but it's not what I'd consider an admirable way to carry myself.

I can understand your line of reasoning. But, come on, it's not like your law school took that guy out of the goodness of their heart. School wanted tuition money for that slot, and they just took best possible candidate available.

 

[donniesyracuse]

College football has been washed for a decade. It’s good to see some people finally catching on.

Many people did not have an issue with it until the players got some of the power and pie.

 

[djcon57]

I'm just incredibly frustrated with how this is all playing out.

I get it. Its not great, but it's reality of the situation, have to make the best out of it and I think we can if we change our strategy (and I think Dino has). No we're not gonna be Alabama, but we never were.

 

[richmondcuse03]

Would this be similar to dating a girl that others only had mild interest in, in HS. She then gets to college and becomes a model her Junior year. Dumps you after a couple years of dating for a D1 athlete who’s also got a super rich family. Would you celebrate her success?


Not “attacking” your post btw. Just thought the analogy was funny as it popped into my head.

if I dated a girl in HS who ended up being a model -- I'd 100 percent claim her as a prior GF and tell that story at the bar lol