Chance Westry Transferring to Syracuse

[Cusefan0307]

just have this feeling both Copeland and Cuffe will emerge and really surprise folks

It won’t surprise me. I was impressed with both more than anyone outside of Judah/JJ at the dome last weekend.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

just have this feeling both Copeland and Cuffe will emerge and really surprise folks

I'm not ready to drive the Cuffe bus, but I'm definitely on it.

 

[Wrinkle]

I'm hearing this is all a facade to deceive opponents in Maui. Red understands the importance of that tournament and what a couple of wins would do for the season. Westry will be dressed and likely starting when the team touches down in the islands. This info is via Barney-Michael Amonga, a janitor in the Melo Center

 

[billsin01]

He’s a catch and shoot player. So is Bell and really so is Benny. They won’t be nor do we need them to create their own shot. If we do then something has gone terribly wrong.

Benny (and anyone else, really, but particularly Benny) needs to show some movement without the ball. I'm fine if a good chunk of his game is spot-up, but he's too athletic to disregard any offense in the lane. That said, he's not (or hasn't been) very adept at creating that for himself off the bounce. If he runs the floor hard in unsettled situations and moves his feet offensively, he can still shoot threes but give us a few buckets through hustle and activity as well. That would be a really good thing.

 

[billsin01]

I’m assuming they improved because that’s what freshmen do and seeing them in the dome backed that up. There’s also Kyle Cuffe who no one as mentioned. We don’t need to play 2g/2f/c anymore because we aren’t playing zone. I wish people would get past this.

Ok that's a good thing. I'm glad you have seen improvement with them. But some seem to think Bell's quality of play is set in stone. We have a guy saying that he IS not a good player at all, not that he had some issues as a freshman, that he IS bad. Why this definitive language with Bell when his performance was not overall that much better or worse than fellow freshman Taylor or Copeland last season? Is he not expected to improve as freshman do?

As for the 2g/2f/c way of thinking, I understand that moving to man means being able to move away from that at times, but there will also be teams we play with three guys in the front court over 6'8. It will be tough to get away with 3 or 4 smaller guys on the court at times no matter what style of defense we run. I think we will need to see a lineup that includes Benny McCloud and Brown against certain opponents.

Think you guys are both making valid points here. I would agree that we are likely not entirely done with some form of a zone nor are we absolutely entrenched with more of a 3- or 4-guard look. That may be the ultimate goal but I'd be a bit surprised if we don't also play to our strengths depending on the game. The fact that many of these guys have some good zone experience and that some of our players are likely to be better suited to that style of defense, likely means we're going to play some of that defense at times.

 

[Orangezoo]

Why in the world would we need creativity from Taylor on a team with JJ and Judah? We need him to stand on the three line and be ready to fire shots. And continuously resetting himself out there to get open for our very talented and speed penetrators.

Exactly. We have playmakers. When everyone tries to be a playmaker you just turn into a ball stopping turnover prone team.

Guys like Taylor and Bell should be only attacking off a hard closeout. Otherwise run hard off screens, move without the ball or swing it. In Taylor's case setting some good screens too.

Plus we want guys who are very good at creating their own or others shots just as we want guys who are shot ready and shot makers. Spacing is actually important when you have elite drivers like Judah and JJ.

 

[OmahaCuse]

Exactly. We have playmakers. When everyone tries to be a playmaker you just turn into a ball stopping turnover prone team.

Guys like Taylor and Bell should be only attacking off a hard closeout. Otherwise run hard off screens, move without the ball or swing it. In Taylor's case setting some good screens too.

Plus we want guys who are very good at creating their own or others shots just as we want guys who are shot ready and shot makers. Spacing is actually important when you have elite drivers like Judah and JJ.

Hard to double JJ, Judah. Bell will be sitting wide open on the wing if they do.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Because he was not able to get his shot off with enough frequency to be a factor in the game. A step-back jab-step would help.

In case of an emergency only.

And he wasn’t a factor because we only had one guard who could consistently drive the ball. That has changed. As was him being just a freshman, behind a senior guard who had the ultimate green light.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Benny (and anyone else, really, but particularly Benny) needs to show some movement without the ball. I'm fine if a good chunk of his game is spot-up, but he's too athletic to disregard any offense in the lane. That said, he's not (or hasn't been) very adept at creating that for himself off the bounce. If he runs the floor hard in unsettled situations and moves his feet offensively, he can still shoot threes but give us a few buckets through hustle and activity as well. That would be a really good thing.

Yeah, Benny making hard cuts to the hoop is what I’m picturing with your post. Reset to the other wing and see if he can’t get a easy alleyoop for a dunk on the way through.

 

[pwong]

Copeland being a turnover machine is simply not true. The stats do not support that.

It's a board trope that Copeland is a walking turnover. He isn't and he wasn't.

I’m sure Quadir will clean it up eventually but last year he averaged more turnovers per game than assists (21% turnover rate) and wasn’t even a primary ball handler???

 

[DoctahLexus]

Why in the world would we need creativity from Taylor on a team with JJ and Judah? We need him to stand on the three line and be ready to fire shots. And continuously resetting himself out there to get open for our very talented and speed penetrators.

To me this is the main potential issue with having Copeland out there with JJ and Judah, at least from an offensive perspective. If we have Judah and JJ handling nearly all the duties as an initiator, it may be a problem having a third guard/sf out there who also is best on offense as an initiator and right now seems unreliable as a catch and shoot sort of threat. Copeland has by far the best abilities on defense and the boards between him Taylor and Bell. That could get more significant when we play man. Is that enough to make up for limitations as a shooter when we may need a shooter to space out JJ and Judah?

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Shrader is exhibit A of this.

Basketball players less likely to target injuries than FB.

 

[Niastri]

Ok that's a good thing. I'm glad you have seen improvement with them. But some seem to think Bell's quality of play is set in stone. We have a guy saying that he IS not a good player at all, not that he had some issues as a freshman, that he IS bad. Why this definitive language with Bell when his performance was not overall that much better or worse than fellow freshman Taylor or Copeland last season? Is he not expected to improve as freshman do?

As for the 2g/2f/c way of thinking, I understand that moving to man means being able to move away from that at times, but there will also be teams we play with three guys in the front court over 6'8. It will be tough to get away with 3 or 4 smaller guys on the court at times no matter what style of defense we run. I think we will need to see a lineup that includes Benny McCloud and Brown against certain opponents.

If we see a team with a big slow lineup, like the old Kansas Michigan State C-PF-PF-SF-PG where they just try to pound us with their size, we can go one of two ways:

McLeod, Brown, Williams, Starling and Mintz and just compete size on size. We will also have a huge lineup to compete with.

Alternatively, we could roll with Hima, Brown, Copeland, Mintz and Cuffe and just lock them down into a helter skelter full court game with a team that is much more athletic, and can still stop you at the rim.

If one tack doesn't work, we switch.

We aren't going to be worried about huge teams this year.

 

[Niastri]

He’s a catch and shoot player. So is Bell and really so is Benny. They won’t be nor do we need them to create their own shot. If we do then something has gone terribly wrong.

I'd hope all of Bell/Williams/Taylor can pump fake and attack the close out, either with a straight to the basket drive, a pull-up from two dribbles inside the arc, or a simple pass to somebody else who can do something useful.

We aren't asking them to take the ball 45 feet from the basket and dominate off the dribble, just to be a triple threat when they get the ball at the arc.

One of those guys will to be able to do that, and that guy will get the playing time.

Or Copeland/Cuffe/Brown will instead.

It's nice to have options!

Taylor had plays last year where he did all of those things, neither Bell nor Williams did.

 

[newmexicuse]

If we see a team with a big slow lineup, like the old Kansas Michigan State C-PF-PF-SF-PG where they just try to pound us with their size, we can go one of two ways:

McLeod, Brown, Williams, Starling and Mintz and just compete size on size. We will also have a huge lineup to compete with.

Alternatively, we could roll with Hima, Brown, Copeland, Mintz and Cuffe and just lock them down into a helter skelter full court game with a team that is much more athletic, and can still stop you at the rim.

If one tack doesn't work, we switch.

We aren't going to be worried about huge teams this year.

Good post overall, but I would not see Hima in a "helter skelter" lineup except as a rim protector, but then why change out McLeod for him ? Westry would have been perfect in that helter skelter lineup...oh well......

 

[Niastri]

Good post overall, but I would not see Hima in a "helter skelter" lineup except as a rim protector, but then why change out McLeod for him ? Westry would have been perfect in that helter skelter lineup...oh well...

Hima is a slightly better shot blocker based on ACC per 40 minutes data. Hima 3.9 vs. McLeod 3.2.

More importantly, Hima has shown he can get his hands on balls for deflections, with 2.1 steals per 40 to McLeod's .2. That is an important variance when pressing.

Thirdly, we need McLeod in the half court. When we press, let's put the second guy out there to give the Highlander a rest and protect him from foul trouble.

 

[5OutFred]

Hima is a slightly better shot blocker based on ACC per 40 minutes data. Hima 3.9 vs. McLeod 3.2.

More importantly, Hima has shown he can get his hands on balls for deflections, with 2.1 steals per 40 to McLeod's .2. That is an important variance when pressing.

Thirdly, we need McLeod in the half court. When we press, let's put the second guy out there to give the Highlander a rest and protect him from foul trouble.

Wouldn't put much stock into Hima's per 40 defensive numbers in this new system. Standing in the center of the zone and blocking anything that comes near is far different from going out and guarding ball screens, switching, etc.

Hima was perfect for the zone, but his man-guarding was the reason he didn't see the floor much at Duquesne. Suspect we'll only see him in limited spots.

 

[newmexicuse]

Hima is a slightly better shot blocker based on ACC per 40 minutes data. Hima 3.9 vs. McLeod 3.2.

More importantly, Hima has shown he can get his hands on balls for deflections, with 2.1 steals per 40 to McLeod's .2. That is an important variance when pressing.

Thirdly, we need McLeod in the half court. When we press, let's put the second guy out there to give the Highlander a rest and protect him from foul trouble.

Good points. I think the thing with McLeod is his upside. We saw his capabilities when he ate up Jesse for a half. At FSU he never really put it together. I dont think the staff brought him in to be another Hima caliber player. As big as Hima is, McLeod dwarfs him and McLeod IMHO has better pure athleticism at that size.

If he can play like he did that half on a consistent basis, it brings us up another level. Big if, big potential. Sometimes big guys take longer; hopefully, he is now ready.

 

[AlaskaSU]

In case of an emergency only.

And he wasn’t a factor because we only had one guard who could consistently drive the ball. That has changed. As was him being just a freshman, behind a senior guard who had the ultimate green light.

He got touches but was unable to make anything of it. It was not Joe's fault.

 

[Cusefan0307]

He got touches but was unable to make anything of it. It was not Joe's fault.

17-42 from 3 in ACC play. 24-61 overall. 3rd on the team. That's more than nothing.

 

[Niastri]

Wouldn't put much stock into Hima's per 40 defensive numbers in this new system. Standing in the center of the zone and blocking anything that comes near is far different from going out and guarding ball screens, switching, etc.

Hima was perfect for the zone, but his man-guarding was the reason he didn't see the floor much at Duquesne. Suspect we'll only see him in limited spots.

True.

I would argue we know almost nothing about any of our players in a press.

So we have to go with what we do know. Their stats evened out for playing time and competition suggest Hima is better at those two things than McLeod.

I'm certainly not guaranteeing the season will play out that way.

However, we have evidence that McLeod gets tired fairly quickly and needs rests, and that Hima will probably need to play some minutes to keep McLeod from wearing out every game. If Hima is bad in man to man, running a press to force other teams into his strengths might be the correct coaching decision.

Maybe he's the next Jeremy McNeil, or maybe I'm wishcasting a role for him that doesn't exist.

It sounds likely that Brown is going to eat up Hima's minutes, so a limited role where Hima can specialize might be the best thing for him and the team.

 

[two3zone]

This is a take. It might not be remotely close to being true, but it’s certainly a take.

You sure? Taylor had a great game last year, and outside of that him, Bell and Copeland were awful. They weren’t good at all. Bell was one of the worst starters I’ve seen here in my life, Copeland needs to slow down a lot and Taylor just wasn’t a factor, saying they were better than that I think is a hotter take.

This doesn’t mean that they can’t be great this year, but last year they were all a black hole.

 

[two3zone]

. We saw his capabilities when he ate up Jesse for a half.

Was it Jesse’s fault or was it the trash defense we used? The second we made an adjustment McLeod was shut down and useless.

 

[Cusefan0307]

You sure? Taylor had a great game last year, and outside of that him, Bell and Copeland were awful. They weren’t good at all. Bell was one of the worst starters I’ve seen here in my life, Copeland needs to slow down a lot and Taylor just wasn’t a factor, saying they were better than that I think is a hotter take.

This doesn’t mean that they can’t be great this year, but last year they were all a black hole.

I was disputing the fact we need these guys to create shots. It’s ridiculous when Mintz is going to be the lead ball handler. They aren’t going to be asked to do that at all this year. Otherwise based on last year you are right.

 

[General20]

True.

I would argue we know almost nothing about any of our players in a press.

So we have to go with what we do know. Their stats evened out for playing time and competition suggest Hima is better at those two things than McLeod.

I'm certainly not guaranteeing the season will play out that way.

However, we have evidence that McLeod gets tired fairly quickly and needs rests, and that Hima will probably need to play some minutes to keep McLeod from wearing out every game. If Hima is bad in man to man, running a press to force other teams into his strengths might be the correct coaching decision.

Maybe he's the next Jeremy McNeil, or maybe I'm wishcasting a role for him that doesn't exist.

It sounds likely that Brown is going to eat up Hima's minutes, so a limited role where Hima can specialize might be the best thing for him and the team.

The way I see it, for most of our schedule it will probably be better to have a smaller, more mobile center, and in those games Brown will eat into Hima's minutes at center.

In maybe 25 or 30% percent of our games we are going to need a big guy at the 5 and possibly Brown at the 4 as well. In those games McCloud isn't going to be able to play all 40 Minutes, or even close to it, and that is when Hima will become very important. I was impressed with him defensively last year and back up centers that can play without the team D suffering are always valuable. He will find time.