Clean House on this roster

[Cusefan0307]

Jesse is our most important recruit. Yes, forwards are scary. Not arguing.

I’m not saying we’re going to be vying for a chip, but if we can get a PG, push Joe to the 2 and have Jesse, I’m happy to take our chances with where we land at forwards.

I’m looking to be trying to get into the 8/9 game and being happy with that.

With all that said, if it’s JB still and Jimmy gets his waiver… not sure who were getting in the portal to fill the final gaps. It’s a fair concern.

Maybe I’m being too optimistic.

Not worth getting excited over that’s for sure. We are Syracuse. I expect to be shooting for top 25 seasons, not barely off the bubble.

 

[Alsacs]

I was trying to find a team I could compare this team too.
The closest non-last year team would be 2006-2007.

That team was really only 6.5 deep.
PG- Josh Wright
SG- Eric Devendorf
SF- Determis Nichols
PF- Terrence Roberts
C- Mookie Watkins.
Bench: Andy Rautins and Paul Harris.

Rautins replaced Wright in the starting lineup about half way thru the season.
Wright became .5
The other 6 played and mixed the minutes.

That team is similar to this team except it was better defensively.
By the end of the 2007 season we were dangerous.
2008 brought in much needed talent and then boom 2009-2014.

 

[Orangezoo]

Agree. Issue is that we had the solution to this issue and he left. Now what happens next year? Hopefully Mintz? What if Buddy comes back?

Joe deserves to play at least one year at 2G.

Yep- just as much as Marek deserved as much as 4. Sure hope he gets the chance MD didn't.

 

[Alsacs]

Yep- just as much as Marek deserved as much as 4. Sure hope he gets the chance MD didn't.

I take Buddy at his word.
He wouldn’t play less next year and that wouldn’t work if we get Mintz.

Mintz is coming here to play. We can’t sit Joe and Buddy wouldn’t play as much.
He is gone IMO.

Jimmy is a different story. If he got approved for an extra year if he could accept a smaller role and basically be a grad assistant and bench piece it could happen. He could help offensively as a bench guy.
If he came back and played more than half the game then please don’t come back.

 

[Orangezoo]

I’m sure we will feed Jesse, but that’s two guys. Who are the other 3?

And percentages don’t tell us the entire story. A lot of guys we have had historically shoot worse later in their careers than they did early because they moved up on the scouting report and JB gives his best players a massive green light.

Gmac, Triche, Fair, Battle etc….We see it happen all the time and we think the player became a worse shooter, but that’s not what’s happening. It’s happened too much here to not realize what’s going on. Until we move away from an ISO heavy offense this is what we have to deal with.

Jesse becomes option one from day 1 of next season if he is back.

Either one of the frosh guards comes in more ready than it appears now or Mintz comes and is the real deal to take part as let's call it option 2a and 2b sharing with Joe.

You then aim for the portal to find option 2 and bump Joe and a frosh to 3a and 3b.

Joe may be a below average athlete but he is far more mobile and capable on the ball than Buddy. Even then with more attention Joe needs to be a 37 pct to 39 pct guy in any scenario where he is a 2g. From what I have seen in his technical improvements this doesn't at all seem out of reach to me if he is playing the 2. Remember Buddy has to use his size, shoulders and body as a shield when driving. The effort must be there at max with precision for him to beat his man. Joe is not nearly as limited in that regard. He just lacks the size to do anything in the lane but kick it or drop it to the post.

Also we really need option 1a or 2a to be our defense returning to being an offensive weapon every game. That reduces the reliance on having 4 scorers in the half court.

 

[RF2044]

Cusefan0307 is right.

The systems are bad, recruiting is bad, and the athleticism is bad. When we land guys who look like difference makers, we aren't able to retain them anymore. The whole thing is a dysfunctional mess -- and that's often what happens when even legendary icons hang on too long. They don't have the same energy, and when the stuff that they used to do to be successful doesn't work anymore, they are too stubborn to change.

Nothing will change until there is a clean break and a fresh start.

 

[Nicknack]

Jimmy is a different story. If he got approved for an extra year if he could accept a smaller role and basically be a grad assistant and bench piece it could happen. He could help offensively as a bench guy.

I know you understand this, but it's not about Jimmy accepting a lesser role, it's about Jim being able to do so.

 

[Orangezoo]

Cusefan0307 is right.

The systems are bad, recruiting is bad, and the athleticism is bad. When we land guys who look like difference makers, we aren't able to retain them anymore. The whole thing is a dysfunctional mess -- and that's often what happens when even legendary icons hang on too long. They don't have the same energy, and when the stuff that they used to do to be successful doesn't work anymore, they are too stubborn to change.

Nothing will change until there is a clean break and a fresh start.

Normally I would say it's doubtful you would see a complete roster turnover vs partial. With today's portal that isn't so far fetched to have major attrition with a changing of the guard.

 

[Dinkyspond]

Supposed is a funny choice

trying to be objective about it

 

[Dmcnabbrules]

Next year might be a real disaster. People whose opinions I respect have serious doubts about Copeland and Bunch’s ability to contribute next season. I have no idea what will happen with Benny. Joe and Jesse can’t be your main guys. They are nice players but man. Next year could be historically bad unless they hit big in transfer portal.

 

[Dinkyspond]

Jesse is our most important recruit. Yes, forwards are scary. Not arguing.

I’m not saying we’re going to be vying for a chip, but if we can get a PG, push Joe to the 2 and have Jesse, I’m happy to take our chances with where we land at forwards.

I’m looking to be trying to get into the 8/9 game and being happy with that.

With all that said, if it’s JB still and Jimmy gets his waiver… not sure who were getting in the portal to fill the final gaps. It’s a fair concern.

Maybe I’m being too optimistic.

amazing how far we have fallen if we are happy getting into the 8/9 game. But you are right, the expectations are so low and it is not changing anytime soon. We need a new coach and one not from the inside. What about Lengel at Colgate?

 

[hoopsupstate]

JB has no interest in going to the portal next year. What you see is what you’re going to get.

 

[Bayside44]

He takes a lot of bad forced shots.
His defense is honestly not worth saying anything but not good enough.
If he were a 15 MpG off the bench leading a second unit with his offense okay.
The kid never sits for his mistakes like lots of other kids have.

He shouldn’t be playing this much and that is on the HC. Plus he complains about every single foul called on him. Just stop doing that.

Of course he does, he's overexposed. But he's also sat, saying never isn't accurate.

But the 3rd forward is nowhere near ready. Maybe he hasn't played enough since March of 20 or whatever.

Our formula of birthing AAAA forwards to term or at least near term is broken.

 

[Bayside44]

You think Frank has been utilized enough? Not me, not at all. I'd rather see Frank take some minutes from Jimmy and have us go big at times.

No one would guard him, and rightly so. Unless it was like hockey and we could sub defense on the fly.

 

[Alsacs]

Of course he does, he's overexposed. But he's also sat, saying never isn't accurate.

But the 3rd forward is nowhere near ready. Maybe he hasn't played enough since March of 20 or whatever.

Our formula of birthing AAAA forwards to term or at least near term is broken.

JB3 played 37 minutes yesterday.
If JB doesn’t want to play Benny then play JBA or Chaz Owens they are scholarship players.

Jimmy’s defense yesterday was poor and its not hard to see he get tired.
Averaging over 36 MPG he barely sits. If you want barely over never fine.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Of course he does, he's overexposed. But he's also sat, saying never isn't accurate.

But the 3rd forward is nowhere near ready. Maybe he hasn't played enough since March of 20 or whatever.

Our formula of birthing AAAA forwards to term or at least near term is broken.

A player like Jimmy would have been a really useful piece on the Howard/Brissett/Battle teams that couldn’t score at all. His defense would have been hidden on a team like that.

On this squad he’s too similar to everyone else.

 

[Alsacs]

No one would guard him, and rightly so. Unless it was like hockey and we could sub defense on the fly.

We played Rick Jackson and AO together.
Shooting isn’t the only way to score.
We can make it hard to defend Jesse if another big is on the floor.
Offensive rebounds and the post.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Next year might be a real disaster. People whose opinions I respect have serious doubts about Copeland and Bunch’s ability to contribute next season. I have no idea what will happen with Benny. Joe and Jesse can’t be your many guys. They are nice players but man. Next year could be historically bad unless they hit big in transfer portal.

This is where I’m at. We have such a gaping hole at forward I almost think the staff may have to try and recruit Cole for one more season.

 

[RF2044]

A player like Jimmy would have been a really useful piece on the Howard/Brissett/Battle teams that couldn’t score at all. His defense would have been hidden on a team like that.

On this squad he’s too similar to everyone else.

Agreed.

No question, JB3 can be a quality contributor at the ACC level. The problem is his role on the current team, because for all of his talents, it is diminishing returns to have him play too many minutes.

He would have been an ideal 6th man on a good team. On this year's team, he's playing upwards of 35 minutes.

 

[Cusefan0307]

We played Rick Jackson and AO together.
Shooting isn’t the only way to score.
We can make it hard to defend Jesse if another big is on the floor.
Offensive rebounds and the post.

I get what your are saying, but that was nearly 15 years ago though. We are getting old.

You used to be able to win a lot of games with just one or two shooters. I’m not sure our teams from that era wins as many games today as they did then because everyone shoots now and the zone is more stretched than ever.

 

[Bayside44]

We played Rick Jackson and AO together.
Shooting isn’t the only way to score.
We can make it hard to defend Jesse if another big is on the floor.
Offensive rebounds and the post.

Jackson is /was a much better player and scorer than Frank. Defenses would completely sell out on that.

If it was the final possession or something like that on defense Frank all day long.

 

[Bayside44]

JB3 played 37 minutes yesterday.
If JB doesn’t want to play Benny then play JBA or Chaz Owens they are scholarship players.

Jimmy’s defense yesterday was poor and its not hard to see he get tired.
Averaging over 36 MPG he barely sits. If you want barely over never fine.

Yeah right.

Like I said our retention of AAAA forwards is shot.

Sadly the better option is Symir and rotate Joe and Buddy over. None of it is great.

 

[Sherman20]

This is exactly what Coach wanted people to be saying when he put this team together.

JB is driving me crazy, but why would he not want us to be a successful team? He thought we could win with this roster, and yes that’s insane. I just can’t agree with ya’ll (and there are a lot of you whose opinions I respect) saying that JB put this roster together only to avoid criticism—of not using his bench or something. That’s pure madness. His rationale was that a smaller roster with defined roles would help with chemistry. Obviously his judgement isn’t great lately, but his central motivation wasn’t to avoid fan criticism. I also think he’s become stubborn and complacent at player retention and recruiting new players. He’s not selling the program well anymore.

 

[Sherman20]

Next year might be a real disaster. People whose opinions I respect have serious doubts about Copeland and Bunch’s ability to contribute next season. I have no idea what will happen with Benny. Joe and Jesse can’t be your many guys. They are nice players but man. Next year could be historically bad unless they hit big in transfer portal.

I agree. They must get a couple of guys out of the portal. I think Bunch could be a contributor, if he can pick up the zone and makes a real effort on D, but it’ll probably be as a sixth or seventh man.

 

[althea]

I’m not sure how many different ways one can say that JB did a poor job with roster construction, but some posters are definitely determined to find out.