Clemson Postgame

[phreddie]

In just under 2 years.. can't get much worse

Eh. About the same as JB's last 2 seasons. I mean, it's not like we expected Red to be an improvement, did we??

Sigh.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

He’s beat us 7 of the last 9 times by an average of about 15 points. They’re 33-16 in the ACC the last 3 years which is tied with UNC for the second most wins in the conference in that period.

And in 14 seasons as Head Coach at Clemson he has won 20+ only six times. Plus he has made the NCAAT only four times, including his very first season there. Then it took him another seven seasons until he made it again. John Wooden he is not.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Eh. About the same as JB's last 2 seasons. I mean, it's not like we expected Red to be an improvement, did we??

Sigh.

We know what the fans expectations are, but what did JW expect. That's all that matters.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

14 isn’t great, but it’s not egregious either. The bigger problem to me is we only forced 7. We are 332 in the country in opponents turnovers per game and 350th in steals.

We just get out athleted every game

 

[RF2044]

We know what the fans expectations are, but what did JW expect. That's all that matters.

This isn't directed specifically you Cliftonparkfan, but I'll respond to your question.

Was "competence" too much to ask for?

 

[phil77]

We know what the fans expectations are, but what did JW expect. That's all that matters.

I am sure his expectations were not to be under .500 and to get blown out every other game and look like an embarrassment on the court.

 

[phreddie]

We just get out athleted every game

Out coached.

A good coach could get the pieces we have to play effective defense, and would have an offensive plan to put guys in positions to maximize their (albeit limited) strengths. We do not do either.

 

[anomander]

so we’re at the part of the story where we’ve already smashed into the iceberg we saw coming, ran to the top of the ship as it was sinking to be the last one in the freezing water, and now dying in the water holding onto a piece of wood. We all know what happens to Leo next. Totally self-inflicted.

 

[kcsu]

Red is getting next year.
If he focuses on recruiting and being the figure head coach he has a shot. He needs to let the GM determine who we spend money on. He needs to bring in a new coach to teach D.
Lots of moves need to be made. Let's see if Red's got the chops to shake up his staff and get help. If not he will be fired after next season.

 

[RF2044]

so we’re at the part of the story where we’ve already smashed into the iceberg we saw coming, ran to the top of the ship as it was sinking to be the last one in the freezing water, and now dying in the water holding onto a piece of wood. We all know what happens to Leo next. Totally self-inflicted.

TOTALLY self inflicted.

 

[Cuseball]

Red is getting next year.
If he focuses on recruiting and being the figure head coach he has a shot. He needs to let the GM determine who we spend money on. He needs to bring in a new coach to teach D.
Lots of moves need to be made. Let's see if Red's got the chops to shake up his staff and get help. If not he will be fired after next season.

What’s the point of having him as the figure head coach? If you have someone managing the roster talent, someone in charge of defense, some one in charge of offense and some one in charge of subbing what exactly would he be doing besides giving awful press conferences and looking confused.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Out coached.

A good coach could get the pieces we have to play effective defense, and would have an offensive plan to put guys in positions to maximize their (albeit limited) strengths. We do not do either.

Agree. You can get lessor athletes to compete on defense. We aren’t competing on the defensive end. There’s no pride in stopping someone. That is coaching. After 19 games this team still fights pressure by continuing to move farther from the basket instead of cutting back door or getting a teammate open. You would think by now that when Lampkin gets the ball, just cut to the basket instead of just standing and watching. No one can make a pass without leaving their feet. It’s really the worst fundamentally coached team I’ve seen in a long time. We play with little purpose on either end of the floor. The local media needs to start asking some tough questions. Red either has an answer or something needs to give. Nothing carries over from game to game except lousy defense and turnovers.

 

[Nicknack]

The only thing saving my patience right now is I record these games so when we get blown out 12 minutes into the game, I can fast forward through the rest. It saves me an hour of my time. This sucks so badly.

 

[RF2044]

Red is getting next year.
If he focuses on recruiting and being the figure head coach he has a shot. He needs to let the GM determine who we spend money on. He needs to bring in a new coach to teach D.
Lots of moves need to be made. Let's see if Red's got the chops to shake up his staff and get help. If not he will be fired after next season.

I expect he will as well.

But certainly not based on any merit-based criteria.

By every measurable indicator of success, he has been a complete failure. Our team looks inept. We get blown out every single time we face a quality opponent. We have zero discernible systems on either side of the ball. And the thing that rationalized posters hung their head on, that he was a good recruiter, seems significantly overblown. In summary, we are badly coached.

But that's what happens when you hire a completely unqualified candidate, and here we are.

I think everyone expects that he's going to get that third year. He didn't even deserve to get the first year, no matter what someone would like to pretend.

 

[Nicknack]

WE NEED TO CLEAN HOUSE. This family crap was good while it lasted, but it's done. MOVE ON.

I swear, EVERY damn game we play and lose like this, you lose another fan. I'm so damn serious.

 

[RF2044]

What’s the point of having him as the figure head coach? If you have someone managing the roster talent, someone in charge of defense, some one in charge of offense and some one in charge of subbing what exactly would he be doing besides giving awful press conferences and looking confused.

Because, failure isn't enough.

We have to really, really, really let him fail beyond a shadow of a doubt before the rationalization ends.

 

[kcsu]

Out coached.

A good coach could get the pieces we have to play effective defense, and would have an offensive plan to put guys in positions to maximize their (albeit limited) strengths. We do not do either.

The best another coach would do wouldn't be enough to beat the better teams. We don't have much talent, actually the talent level is pathetic. JB, Coach K wouldn't win with this team. The kids are not very good. Other than JJ and Donnie when healthy we don't have one kid who would be a major contributing player on any top 20 team.
Dry Hump might on the right team but the rest of the guys are average at best

 

[RF2044]

WE NEED TO CLEAN HOUSE. This family crap was good while it lasted, but it's done. MOVE ON.

I swear, EVERY damn game we play and lose like this, you lose another fan. I'm so damn serious.

Just imagine extrapolating how attendance is falling off this year with our incredibly crappy product, to next year on the complete apathy that will set in, and what attendance will be liking year three. We'll be lucky to get 7,000 fans legitimately in the seats per game.

It's also important to factor in that we're going to lose 8 or 9 players off this team, so next year's roster will be a complete rebuild. Not exactly conducive to improvement.

 

[SUbear]

What’s the point of having him as the figure head coach? If you have someone managing the roster talent, someone in charge of defense, some one in charge of offense and some one in charge of subbing what exactly would he be doing besides giving awful press conferences and looking confused.

Collecting a substantial paycheck.

 

[PhatOrange]

Red is getting next year.
If he focuses on recruiting and being the figure head coach he has a shot. He needs to let the GM determine who we spend money on. He needs to bring in a new coach to teach D.
Lots of moves need to be made. Let's see if Red's got the chops to shake up his staff and get help. If not he will be fired after next season.

is it possible they’ll have an entirely new roster next season?

 

[Nicknack]

Just imagine extrapolating how attendance is falling off this year with our incredibly crappy product, to next year on the complete apathy that will set in, and what attendance will be liking year three. We'll be lucky to get 7,000 fans legitimately in the seats per game.

It's also important to factor in that we're going to lose 8 or 9 players off this team, so next year's roster will be a complete rebuild. Not exactly conducive to improvement.

I hear you. I just look at myself, a DIE HARD Cuse fan. This product, coaching, performance, and continued erosion of our program is taking a toll on me. I don't have it in me to keep doing this. For my own mental health, I have to step back some, get less passionate somehow to deal.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Because, failure isn't enough.

We have to really, really, really let him fail beyond a shadow of a doubt before the rationalization ends.

The real reason is they don’t want to pay a coach three years of salary for not coaching. There’s nothing shown to this point that Red can coach up a team. This team is so fundamentally inept that the University has to see it.

 

[phil77]

Just imagine extrapolating how attendance is falling off this year with our incredibly crappy product, to next year on the complete apathy that will set in, and what attendance will be liking year three. We'll be lucky to get 7,000 fans legitimately in the seats per game.

It's also important to factor in that we're going to lose 8 or 9 players off this team, so next year's roster will be a complete rebuild. Not exactly conducive to improvement.

More people will show up to the game to see Melo, Lala, and Kim K in the stand than to watch the team on the court.

 

[kcsu]

Because, failure isn't enough.

We have to really, really, really let him fail beyond a shadow of a doubt before the rationalization ends.

JW made the right and safe call going with Red. After next year unless Red makes the dance JW will have the ability to go outside and make a good hire. By waiting he will have the full support vs a fractured base if he had gone outside first.

 

[RF2044]

The real reason is they don’t want to pay a coach three years of salary for not coaching. There’s nothing shown to this point that Red can coach up a team. This team is so fundamentally inept that the University has to see it.

Agreed, across the board. But the problem is we didn't get even bigger hole for the inevitable successor to have to dig out of. And there will be a substantial revenue loss associated with fan apathy if we try to run it back.

It's an Owen situation, and trying to pretend that we need to give this coach more time when he's shown he doesn't have the chops, or another year to save a few bucks when we're going to lose exponentially more gate revenues doesn't make much sense.