Clemson Postgame

[007]

We are 340th in the country in defensive turnover percentage, 352nd in steal percentage and 283rd in block percentage. We force absolutely no turnovers or the threat of altering shots.

Those stats, especially the first two, are shockingly bad. Sadly - and this is coming from a “it’s the Jimmy and Joes“ guy- it’s an indictment on how poorly the concepts are being taught or the passive acceptance of poor execution. There is no excuse for players running under screens, chasing cutters with their back to the ball, not providing help, not getting back.

The scheme further compounds this. By scheme I mean the near absence of ball pressure and not playing passing lanes. It’s a mind numbing decision.

 

[RF2044]

JW made the right and safe call going with Red. After next year unless Red makes the dance JW will have the ability to go outside and make a good hire. By waiting he will have the full support vs a fractured base if he had gone outside first.

No, he made a poor decision by hiring an unproven coach that no other team wanted, who is also one of the minor architects in the programs 8-year decline.

People try to couch it in the rhetoric of we needed to honor jb, but in actuality the program had slipped several notches and needed a proven commodity to help us write the ship.

I understand the perspective that it was important to honor JB's legacy by somehow keeping things in house, but that was an incredibly poor decision. As proven by the results of the last year and a half

 

[RF2044]

Those stats, especially the first two, are shockingly bad. Sadly - and this is coming from a “it’s the Jimmy and Joes“ guy- it’s an indictment on how poorly the concepts are being taught or the passive acceptance of poor execution. There is no excuse for players running under screens, chasing cutters with their back to the ball, not providing help, not getting back.

The scheme further compounds this. By scheme I mean the near absence of ball pressure and not playing passing lanes. It’s a mind numbing decision.

And that shouldn't come as any surprise, it's been a trend over longer than a decade that our players rarely improve, and we have either outdated concepts on both sides of the ball, or not the right concepts. We needed to shake things up and bring in an infusion of new ideas, but instead we made a continuity higher your ordinary for a guy who is a fraction of the coach's predecessor was. So no wonder the results have slipped and increment over what was unacceptable before.

 

[RF2044]

I hear you. I just look at myself, a DIE HARD Cuse fan. This product, coaching, performance, and continued erosion of our program is taking a toll on me.

Amen.

 

[Nicknack]

But what about how great Red did getting 20 wins with a cast of outfits last year???

Come on guys. For those who threw that in the face of those who were a bit skeptical with Red, what do you say now exactly?

Talk about a narrative that just grew on this board out of peoples a---

 

[hoopsupstate]

JW made the right and safe call going with Red. After next year unless Red makes the dance JW will have the ability to go outside and make a good hire. By waiting he will have the full support vs a fractured base if he had gone outside first.

You’re correct, but watching this level of play for another year is unimaginable. I hate to break it to people, but Melo and White are not going to come in and dominate at this level. They’re solid players but not huge difference makers. They are better than what we currently have. White is by far better defensively than anyone on our current team.

 

[phil77]

Red is a pretty good high school recruiter. Everything else he is not good at. He can't hang his hat on anything. Nobody can tell me one thing he does that is good other than recruit high school kids which is an assistant coaches job. He can't motivate. He can't game plan. He can't make in game adjustments. He cant develop roles on the team. He cant substitute. He has no feel for the game from a coaching angle. He cant make halftime adjustments. He cant raise NIL funds (if he gets any this year it is only because of Melo not Red). He cant teach fundamentals. He cant teach offense. He cant teach defense. Tell me one thing he does good as a basketball coach?

People say it is about the jimmy and joes more than the Xs and Os but you have to have some Xs and Os or the Jimmy and Joes cant function.

 

[RF2044]

Red is a pretty good high school recruiter. Everything else he is not good at. He can't hang his hat on anything. Nobody can tell me one thing he does that is good other than recruit high school kids which is an assistant coaches job. He can't motivate. He can't game plan. He can't make in game adjustments. He cant develop roles on the team. He cant substitute. He has no feel for the game from a coaching angle. He cant make halftime adjustments. He cant raise NIL funds (if he gets any this year it is only because of Melo not Red). He cant teach fundamentals. He cant teach offense. He cant teach defense. Tell me one thing he does good as a basketball coach?

People say it is about the jimmy and joes more than the Xs and Os but you have to have some Xs and Os or the Jimmy and Joes cant function.

One more year...

Sadly, you are 100% correct. The Peter principle is squarely applicable here. Red knows more basketball than 99.99999% of the posters here will ever know. I have zero doubt that he has the capability to be a tremendous assistant coach, but he's out of his depth.

He's not going to recruit his way out of this hole, he's not going to coach his way out of this hole, we're delaying the inevitable, and the sorry results will lead to increasingly poor attendance until change is made.

And when the roster fully turns over after this offseason, we're not going to have a roster position to have him have success next year either. So what's the point?

 

[chuck]

Choppa getting an asschewing

We were getting 16 anyways.

Elijah has done jack squat he hasn't earned the right for a nickname from me until he learns how to play team basketball.

 

[chuck]

But Boeheim did this Boeheim did that. It's his fault. He ain't coaching this team. He coached the team thru sanctions so some poor sap didn't have to. Autry is not a good basketball coach. And the assistants have done ZERO in anything that even sniffs high D1 basketball coaching as far as achievements go.

 

[RF2044]

But Boeheim did this Boeheim did that. It's his fault. He ain't coaching this team. He coached the team thru sanctions so some poor sap didn't have to. Autry is not a good basketball coach. And the assistants have done ZERO in anything that even sniffs high D1 basketball coaching as far as achievements go.

Which of course indicates by any reasonable logic, theory, or empirical evidence that he was incredibly poor choice to take over for a coaching icon when the program was an extreme decline.

People can talk about how he was a reasonable or a safe choice at the time, but in reality he was an incredibly risky choice.

Which has been borne out by the programs poor performance since he took over. I don't want to hear about 20 wins, we got blown out consistently by quality of those last year, and it's gotten worse this year. We have no discernible offensive concept, we're inept defensively, we have a starter who is regressed to the point where he's barely playable, all of which is on coaching.

But you know what? You re-put yourself, and when you hire in and have to coach, based on evaluative criteria that aren't important to the role, this is what you get.

 

[wiCuse]

The best another coach would do wouldn't be enough to beat the better teams. We don't have much talent, actually the talent level is pathetic. JB, Coach K wouldn't win with this team. The kids are not very good. Other than JJ and Donnie when healthy we don't have one kid who would be a major contributing player on any top 20 team.
Dry Hump might on the right team but the rest of the guys are average at best

I admire how you continue to defend Red. It takes a lot of fight, commitment, persistence and determination. All qualities that are lacking of this current team due to our coaching staff.

Clemson is yet another example of a team that has a solid system with slightly above average athletes who totally dominated us by running an efficient offense and pressuring us on defense. If Red could coach one lick, this game might have been competitive.

 

[RF2044]

I admire how you continue to defend Red. It takes a lot of fight, commitment, persistence and determination. All qualities that are lacking of this current team due to our coaching staff.

Clemson is yet another example of a team that has a solid system with slightly above average athletes who totally dominated us by running an efficient offense and pressuring us on defense. If Red could coach one lick, this game might have been competitive.

Agreed. You look at other teams, and they run a far superior concept on both sides of the ball. I'm not talking about teams that are championship contenders, I'm talking about teams that have a modicum of being well coached. We are not, and it shows.

I'll give a specific example. After watching our game last week against one of the worst teams in the conference, where we had to overcome a 17-point deficit to beat Notre Dame, I watched Clemson play against pittsburgh. I'm not suggesting in any way that these are top 10 teams, but you could see how well coached they were, how solid they were on both sides of the ball, how their players past well, attacked defenses, and got good shots. It stood in marked contrast to how we play, and indicates that were really going to struggle when we play against these types of teams, just like we did today.

We benefited this season from having our ACC schedule front loaded with many of the worst teams in the league, it bolstered our record, but now those games are in the rearview mirror and we're going to play much better teams for the most part going forward, and we're going to struggle. I think we're going to lose a lot of these games by 15 plus points.

Because we're poorly coached, and the capabilities of our poorly constructed roster is not optimized.

 

[Toga]

Red is a pretty good high school recruiter. Everything else he is not good at. He can't hang his hat on anything. Nobody can tell me one thing he does that is good other than recruit high school kids which is an assistant coaches job. He can't motivate. He can't game plan. He can't make in game adjustments. He cant develop roles on the team. He cant substitute. He has no feel for the game from a coaching angle. He cant make halftime adjustments. He cant raise NIL funds (if he gets any this year it is only because of Melo not Red). He cant teach fundamentals. He cant teach offense. He cant teach defense. Tell me one thing he does good as a basketball coach?

People say it is about the jimmy and joes more than the Xs and Os but you have to have some Xs and Os or the Jimmy and Joes cant function.

Well sure there's that.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Yeah, the 15 losses by 10+ that Autry already has in < 2 full seasons is alarming at best and flat out unequivocally unacceptable at worst.

Of all the numbers and rankings, that alone is enough for me. That is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[RF2044]

Yeah, the 15 losses by 10+ that Autry already has in < 2 full seasons is alarming at best and flat out unequivocally unacceptable at worst.

Of all the numbers and rankings, that alone is enough for me. That is absolutely ridiculous.

Agreed. And it indicates that when your team plays any other team that's of reasonable quality, and you get smoked, that you're coaching is completely inadequate.

 

[PoppyHart]

Because, failure isn't enough.

We have to really, really, really let him fail beyond a shadow of a doubt before the rationalization ends.

We certainly can't let the next head coach know that he (or she) can earn millions, underwhelm in every facet imaginable, and damage the long term viability of the program, but not be entitled to a third year of the status quo. It would set a horrible precedent that a top-5 salaried employee needs to perform.

 

[IthacaMatt]

The season got me really mad at first and then I got to a laughable stage where it was just like watching a movie and now I am mad again.

I think I am mad again because he is going to get a 3rd year regardless. I think the rest of the game could be like this and he will more than likely be back. That is what makes me so mad right now.

US Men's Soccer had a game tonight against Costa Rica. MLS guys, but boy it was entertaining, they played hard and won 3-0, after winning 3-1 vs. Venezuela on Saturday. Much more fun than watching SU hoops right now. I can't stand being 15-20 points down in the first half of literally every game.

 

[PoppyHart]

Yeah, the 15 losses by 10+ that Autry already has in < 2 full seasons is alarming at best and flat out unequivocally unacceptable at worst.

Of all the numbers and rankings, that alone is enough for me. That is absolutely ridiculous.

Pitino, who prioritizes and know how to coach defense, has been a part of only 5 such boatraces since arriving at SJU, all last year and twice to UCONN. They could easily be undefeated this year.

 

[IthacaMatt]

WE NEED TO CLEAN HOUSE. This family crap was good while it lasted, but it's done. MOVE ON.

I swear, EVERY damn game we play and lose like this, you lose another fan. I'm so damn serious.

You lose 100 fans, not one or two.

 

[kcsu]

I expect he will as well.

But certainly not based on any merit-based criteria.

By every measurable indicator of success, he has been a complete failure. Our team looks inept. We get blown out every single time we face a quality opponent. We have zero discernible systems on either side of the ball. And the thing that rationalized posters hung their head on, that he was a good recruiter, seems significantly overblown. In summary, we are badly coached.

But that's what happens when you hire a completely unqualified candidate, and here we are.

I think everyone expects that he's going to get that third year. He didn't even deserve to get the first year, no matter what someone would like to pretend.

The first year was political. Agreed as to qualified.

 

[kcsu]

Pitino, who prioritizes and know how to coach defense, has been a part of only 5 such boatraces since arriving at SJU, all last year and twice to UCONN. They could easily be undefeated this year.

I wanted Rick .

 

[Nicknack]

You lose 100 fans, not one or two.

Depends on how you define the term fans.

What I'm concerned about is losing committed ones. Fans that bleed orange. You can lose 100 fans a game when they're casual fans. You can always get those fans back. The ones that bleed orange aren't as easy to get back. That's what I'm most concerned with.

 

[kcsu]

I admire how you continue to defend Red. It takes a lot of fight, commitment, persistence and determination. All qualities that are lacking of this current team due to our coaching staff.

Clemson is yet another example of a team that has a solid system with slightly above average athletes who totally dominated us by running an efficient offense and pressuring us on defense. If Red could coach one lick, this game might have been competitive.

I'm actually defending the decision to hire him. I'm not defending Red. If you read my post I would fire him if not for Melo. I'm on Record on this. I simply understand why he was hired and why he will be our coach next season.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Out coached.

A good coach could get the pieces we have to play effective defense, and would have an offensive plan to put guys in positions to maximize their (albeit limited) strengths. We do not do either.

nobody could coach that team to being competitive against actual good teams. That doesn't mean Autry is off the hook. He is also bad. Both things can be true at once.